Unofficial Buildup to the 2010/11 Ashes

[War]

I went to bed last night praying that today when the squad is announced, the names Rashid, Tredwell, Panesar & Bresnan shouldn't be in it. But the selectors have failed :doh

Outside of obvious XI that played in last home test vs PAK (Bell replacing Morgan of course). The other 5 memebers really should have be:

Morgan
Davies
Tremlett
Shazad
Lyth/Carberry/Hildreth

I couldn't t see it no other way persoanlly.

Lyth/Carberry/Hildreth:

This would have been an important squad place, since AFAICS England have to cater for the strong likelihood that Cook will be exposed technically again by the AUS quicks & his place will come into question. Thus either another open needs to be in the main squad or if they dont have faith in Lyth/Carberry (well i dont) - pick another middle-order batsman (which would mean Trott will reluctantly have to play as makeshift opener in the event of Cook failing again).


Picking Panesar makes no sense. No other spinner in ENG expect Swann is test quality, let alone international quality. If the unthinkable situation occurs where Swann gets injured, it would be suicide to pick any one of Panesar or Rashid as part of a 4-man attack - that would be a one of the worst test selections in recent ENG test history & Ashes history.

Thats is why picking a back-up spinners is clearly doesn't have any creditable cricket logic behind it. If Swann gets injured, 4 quicks have to play.

 

[Themer]

the bresnan thing is beyond a joke really its quite obvious the guy aint up to it its like how they chose wright for the SA tour last year. Brainless stuff. What has Shahzad done wrong? but then again hes only played Bangladesh hasnt he so cant really base him on that.

Its not like theres anyone who's campaigning for his cause. Its widely agreed that he's not good enough and won't ever be so why he's able to get a call up for an Ashes series is beyond me.

 

[Ollie_H]

hus either another open needs to be in the main squad or if they dont have faith in Lyth/Carberry (well i dont) - pick another middle-order batsman (which would mean Trott will reluctantly have to play as makeshift opener in the event of Cook failing again).

I think many have said it before but both the main tour and the Performance Squad tour are going to be running concurrently, so basically there is Adams, Lyth and Carberry as back up openers for if Cook fails miserably.

 

[Themer]

Picking Panesar makes no sense. No other spinner in ENG expect Swann is test quality, let alone international quality. If the unthinkable situation occurs where Swann gets injured, it would be suicide to pick any one of Panesar or Rashid as part of a 4-man attack - that would be a one of the worst test selections in recent ENG test history & Ashes history.

Thats is why picking a back-up spinners is clearly doesn't have any creditable cricket logic behind it. If Swann gets injured, 4 quicks have to play.

No. A spin bowler is required for a trip to Australia as there are some turners, pitches with bounce and a spinner is need to hold up an end if the seamers are getting flailed.

Monty has had a great season and has already proven in his career that he is capable of being Test quality and of being dangerous in Australian conditons.

Lyth/Carberry/Hildreth:

If Cook's techinal deficiencies are exposed I'd expect Carberry to come in from the Performance Squad so no worries there at all.

 

[Insomniac]

I'd just like to say that I enjoy the Ashes, because no matter what, India doesn't win.

And go Australia.

 

[War]

No. A spin bowler is required for a trip to Australia as there are some turners, pitches with bounce and a spinner is need to hold up an end if the seamers are getting flailed.

Monty has had a great season and has already proven in his career that he is capable of being Test quality and of being dangerous in Australian conditons.

The only definte turners in AUS will be at SCG & Adelaide. Given the way Swann is bowling & AUS historical weakness againts off-spinners - him alone can run through without any back-up - much less from a joker like Panesar. Plus also even on those surfaces someone like Shazad or even Anderson (maybe) could reverse-swing the ball on those surfaces - further negating the need for Panesar.

Secondly when Panesar bowled well in AUS last time, he was still new on the scene & batsmen hadn't figured him out yet. His problems starting occuring in 2007 home summer vs IND, when those top players of spin played him with ease.

Since that series as Shane Warne said "he was playing one test over & over" & he hasn't improved at all.

Although i haven't seen Panesar bowl in FC cricket this seaosn for obvious reasons. I'm not sure how having a great season in our average FC system againts batsmen who are wayyyyy below the quality of the internaitonal players in DIVISON 2 of all places (DEAR GOD) that decoded Panesar between IND 07 - Ashes 09. Makes him a worthwhile call up to Ashes squad.

Have you hear anything about him slowing his pace down & getting more turn?. Has he added any new-dimentions to his bowling??

Alll of those glaring question marks makes his squad selection useless & too risky. Thus picking the the other quick in Shazad would have been smarter.

If Cook's techinal deficiencies are exposed I'd expect Carberry to come in from the Performance Squad so no worries there at all.

What makes you confident that in such a scenario, that Carberry will be able to come & score runs againts the AUS bowlers??

War added 2 Minutes and 1 Seconds later...

I think many have said it before but both the main tour and the Performance Squad tour are going to be running concurrently, so basically there is Adams, Lyth and Carberry as back up openers for if Cook fails miserably.

I dont have confidence in any of them coming in an scoring runs againts the AUS quicks if Cook fails.

As i said, the safer but reluctant option that would have to occur if Cook fails miserably & gets dropped. Is Trott going up to open with Strauss & Morgan coming into the middle-order.

 

[Themer]

Panesar's gone away improved as a person, started to set his own fields and has slowed his bowling down. Panesr will be there purely as back up.

What makes you confident that in such a scenario, that Carberry will be able to come & score runs againts the AUS bowlers??

What makes you confident that Hildreth/Morgan will be able to come and score runs against Australia? Carberry has one of the best techiniques against fast bowlers so I doubt he'd be overawed by the standard of Australia's attack.

 

[War]

Panesar's gone away improved as a person, started to set his own fields and has slowed his bowling down. Panesr will be there purely as back up.

Ok so you admit you dont expect him to play even in the horrific even that Swann gets injured?

What makes you confident that Hildreth/Morgan will be able to come and score runs against Australia? Carberry has one of the best techiniques against fast bowlers so I doubt he'd be overawed by the standard of Australia's attack.

Why would you are anyone not be confident in Morgan ability to score runs vs AUS??. He may not dominate them - but he clearly showed enough againts a very good PAK attack this summer - that he can handle good test fast-bowling to a solid degree.

I'm as skeptical about Hildreth as much as i am about Carberry or Lyth. But i'd say batting in the middle-order in AUS may be an easier task than opening. Thats why i'd have Hildreth in the main squad - instead of the back-up opener & would have open with Trott in such a scenario that Cook fails.

Carberry has one of the best techniques for facing mediocre county bowling - i dont know about quality test fast-bowling. The fact that given Cook failures vs PAK this summer - the selectors basically held their breath hoping he would score runs & not drop him for Carberry should tell us everything. That would never happen with AUS for example given the amount of really good opening optiosn that they have.

 

[irottev]

Not Panesar again :/ He's nil. I guess he's only back up.

 

[Robelinda]

I think you Eng fans are overrating our batting lineup. Eng to win comfortably this summer, but I bloody hope not!

 

[Owzat]

The squad to some degree beggars belief, the continually tried and failed tour, others don't get a look in. Panesar was next to useless in 06/07, got dropped from the side and without so much as a Test, ODI or T20I to his name in recent months/years he is back in for the most important and difficult tour England face.

Never did like the 16 man squad approach, always feel you need 17-18 minimum to cover form, tactics and injuries.

England tour squad averages by opponents

vs AUS/SAF/IND/SRI/PAK

Strauss : 3619 runs @ 40.66
Cook : 2664 runs @ 38.06
Bell : 2607 runs @ 37.24
Trott : 754 runs @ 50.27
Pietersen : 3598 runs @ 44.98
Morgan : 175 runs @ 29.17
Collingwood : 2895 runs @ 39.66 & 9 wkts @ 74.00 (SR 132.56)

Prior : 979 runs @ 32.63
Davies : n/a

Swann : 479 runs @ 21.77 & 65 wkts @ 27.86 (SR 54.28)
Panesar : 140 runs @ 6.09 & 78 wkts @ 39.15 (SR 80.45)

Broad : 724 runs @ 27.85 & 56 wkts @ 34.41 (SR 65.18)
Bresnan : n/a
Anderson : 366 runs @ 11.44 & 114 wkts @ 36.12 (SR 65.11)
Tremlett : 50 runs @ 12.50 & 13 wkts @ 29.69 (SR 66.08)
Finn : 10 runs @ 10.00 & 13 wkts @ 22.92 (SR 36.46)

vs NZE/WIN/ZIM/BAN

Strauss : 2158 runs @ 47.96
Cook : 1700 runs @ 53.13
Bell : 1257 runs @ 62.85
Trott : 401 runs @ 66.83
Pietersen : 1708 runs @ 55.10
Morgan : 81 runs @ 40.50
Collingwood : 1281 runs @ 49.27 & 6 wkts @ 46.50 (SR 87.67)

Prior : 917 runs @ 61.13
Davies : n/a

Swann : 174 runs @ 43.50 & 48 wkts @ 24.79 (SR 53.92)
Panesar : 47 runs @ 4.27 & 48 wkts @ 26.60 (SR 57.65)

Broad : 372 runs @ 28.62 & 41 wkts @ 34.17 (SR 64.00)
Bresnan : 125 runs @ 41.67 & 14 wkts @ 35.14 (SR 70.43)
Anderson : 136 runs @ 17.00 & 74 wkts @ 25.03 (SR 45.34)
Tremlett : n/a
Finn : 3 runs @ 3.00 & 19 wkts @ 23.42 (SR 37.26)

Some of the batsmen don't look so 'World Class' when you take out the teams they play a lot that boost their averages. If you consider we play Bangladesh, New Zealand and West Indies as regularly as other Test nations then it's no wonder their averages look so good (compared to 90s batsmen etc) If some of our past players had played those three teams at their current levels (as opposed to West Indies when they were a force), then I reckon they'd all be comfortably averaging 40+ and maybe some nearer 50.

Anderson takes 39% of his wickets at an average of 25.03 which drags his overall average down to 31.76. Bresnan's batting average is impressive, but against only Bangladesh and West Indies and that makes his bowling average unimpressive.

Tremlett has played only one series, vs India at home. Panesar hasn't played for England since his one Ashes Test last year, his ordinary average of 34.37 is even more ordinary against decent sides, his career average is lowered by 38% of his wickets being against West Indies and New Zealand at a good average

 

[Sureshot]

Some of the batsmen don't look so 'World Class' when you take out the teams they play a lot that boost their averages.

You do know that will apply to pretty much every batsman in World cricket, because, funnily enough, the best teams have the best bowlers in the world. It's an obvious statistic that you seem to read so much in to. I think people are being a little harsh on Monty. Only other real option is Rashid, a 22 year old leg-spinner, who isn't all that consistent and has never played a test match before. I don't expect Monty to play, if Swann gets injured, he'll offer more to the side witht he ball than another spinner. His head is in a good place again, and that's important.

 

[Howsie]

I think you Eng fans are overrating our batting lineup. Eng to win comfortably this summer, but I bloody hope not!

That's very Un-Australian of you Personally I really can't see England winning with that squad, I'd be very surprised if Australia don't win by at least two matches.

Howsie added 2 Minutes and 0 Seconds later...

Some of the batsmen don't look so 'World Class' when you take out the teams they play a lot that boost their averages. If you consider we play Bangladesh, New Zealand and West Indies as regularly as other Test nations then it's no wonder their averages look so good (compared to 90s batsmen etc)

Team records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | Cricinfo.com

Just for the record.

 

[Themer]

Ok so you admit you dont expect him to play even in the horrific even that Swann gets injured?

Do you know what back up means? He will play if Swann gets injured in such an event Bresnan will replace Finn/Tremlett to bolster out batting line up. Weakens our team a hell of a lot but you can't go in with 3 complete bunnies as seen in the last Ashes.

Why would you are anyone not be confident in Morgan ability to score runs vs AUS??. He may not dominate them - but he clearly showed enough againts a very good PAK attack this summer - that he can handle good test fast-bowling to a solid degree.

In test matches Morgan has a big flaw outside offstump which Hilfenhaus would be all over like the plague.

I don't see why there is such overt pessimism in regards to our squad. Its coming in off the back of a brilliant year where its won every series. I certainly feel its at least good enough to draw the series against an Australia who have as many weak links as we do.

 

[barmyarmy]

As people have said it's basically a 32 man squad so we're probably reading too much into it. If one of our seamers does get injured are the selectors really going to put Bresnan in when Shazhad is staying in the same hotel?