Unofficial Buildup to the 2010/11 Ashes

[ferg512]

If Panesar was not to get chosen who would? hes quite experienced and has been to Australia before. I think it would have been unfair to have chosen Rashid or Tredwell.

 

[Robelinda]

I'm sure England doesnt want a repeat of 02 when Giles got injured and had to rely on Dawson to 'spin' Australia out. Must have an experienced backup spinner.

 

[TumTum]

Didn't Trott score 1,000 international runs this summer? He's got the perfect mentality for an Ashes series.

I thought the same till recently, I think he is more likely to lose it when things go against him (like the Aussie crowd). He's been a quite one but I think we will see a new side of him in the Ashes.

 

[sifter132]

I haven't fully read through the thread, so someone might have posted this already, but this Cricinfo article shows Swann to have been the most effective wicket-taking spinner in the world since January last year

The Numbers Game: The best spinner in all formats | Regulars | Cricinfo Magazine | Cricinfo.com

Yeah, no doubt he's been good, but I don't think he's the 'ZOMG Swanny will run through the Aussies like a dodgy curry-good' which the current vibe seems to be. In his record I see:
1) a poor 2009 Ashes - and would have been AWFUL if not for the 5th Test where Australia inexplicably played Stuart Clark instead of Hauritz on a rank turner. : (I'll be angry about that til I die I think...)
2) a pretty good 09/10 tour of SA - bowled well but still averaged over 30 (31.something)
3) a couple of series v Bangladesh where he averaged 27 over the 4 Tests - given the opposition, not great really, but solid I guess.
4) an awesome set of numbers v Pakistan where he averaged 12 or 13 in the last series. But...yeah I'm not sure what you would want to hang your hat on from that series. And Swann rarely had any hard work to do, often coming on when it was 5 for less than 100 (or 50 )

It's my concern that people are focusing more on apparent brilliance in series 4 rather than being concerned about lack of penetration in series 1, while remembering series 2 and 3 as a lot better than they really were, that's all I'm trying to say.

 

[Sureshot]

I thought the same till recently, I think he is more likely to lose it when things go against him (like the Aussie crowd). He's been a quite one but I think we will see a new side of him in the Ashes.

I don't think you can compare a harsh Aussie crowd to a head of another national cricket board calling you a cheater with no evidence.

 

[TumTum]

I don't think you can compare a harsh Aussie crowd to a head of another national cricket board calling you a cheater with no evidence.

Was more referring to his recent altercation with Wahab and this:
http://www.newsoftheworld.co.uk/spo...-being-accused-of-verbally-abusing-a-fan.html

 

[angryangy]

Heh, yeah he can expect mum jokes from the crowd

 

[Ollie_H]

I think the real issue here is the picture, that really is a quality one!

 

[Sureshot]

Your Momma is so fat that when you try to hug her she turns in to a cricket ball

Also, I have no doubt Wahab had it coming, as did the fan.

 

[pcfan123]

Derp

 

[Themer]

Trott reminds me more of Foul Bachelor Frog more as every day passes.

 

[War]

Yeah, no doubt he's been good, but I don't think he's the 'ZOMG Swanny will run through the Aussies like a dodgy curry-good' which the current vibe seems to be. In his record I see:
1) a poor 2009 Ashes - and would have been AWFUL if not for the 5th Test where Australia inexplicably played Stuart Clark instead of Hauritz on a rank turner. : (I'll be angry about that til I die I think...)
2) a pretty good 09/10 tour of SA - bowled well but still averaged over 30 (31.something)
3) a couple of series v Bangladesh where he averaged 27 over the 4 Tests - given the opposition, not great really, but solid I guess.
4) an awesome set of numbers v Pakistan where he averaged 12 or 13 in the last series. But...yeah I'm not sure what you would want to hang your hat on from that series. And Swann rarely had any hard work to do, often coming on when it was 5 for less than 100 (or 50 )

It's my concern that people are focusing more on apparent brilliance in series 4 rather than being concerned about lack of penetration in series 1, while remembering series 2 and 3 as a lot better than they really were, that's all I'm trying to say.

Well if anyone is suggesting Swann will run through the Aussies they would indeed be a bit over the top. But given the success good off-spinners have had againts AUS (home & away) - the way Swann by default means he will be ENG main wicket-taking weapon in AUS. Whether he lives up to expectation in the Ashes is another story however.


1. But going to your point. I'm not how you can say Swann had a poor Ashes series. It wasn't great or anything, but he did his job as spinner (being penertrative on a wearing 5th day surface) @ Lords & the Oval. Which was good enough for Swann ATT, given the Swann was still in his early stages as an international bowler.

On a side note. Hauritz certainly wouldn't have made any difference to result @ the Oval if he played. Given that early in that series @ Cardiff & since the Ashes during the AUS summer vs WI @ Adelaide & Perth & vs NZ @ Wellington on wearing tracks - Hauritz failed to be effective.

2. Swann bowled superbly in SA. Although he averaged 31, you just had to watch him bowl in the series to realize he took his bowling to the next level after the Ashes. Going into the SA series, their was some worry that Swann may not have been able to be effective in a 4-man attack, compared to 5-man attack he in during the 09 Ashes, given Flintoff's retirement. But Swann stepped up to task.

3. Although its true the standard of batting he has had to bowl to vs BANG & PAK have been poor. Again you just had to have been watching him bowl & the improvement in every aspect of his bowling is evident.

Its almost like watching Warne bowl to poor English batting in the mid 90s. ENG where piss poor players of spin - but it was clear that it was a special bowler doing special things on view. Its the same with Swann ATM.

War added 11 Minutes and 35 Seconds later...

If Panesar was not to get chosen who would? hes quite experienced and has been to Australia before. I think it would have been unfair to have chosen Rashid or Tredwell.

No spinner should be in the squad outside Swann since none of them are test quality. Its that simple.

I'm sure England doesnt want a repeat of 02 when Giles got injured and had to rely on Dawson to 'spin' Australia out. Must have an experienced backup spinner.

ENG made a mistake in the 02 Ashes by picking Dawson in the squad. I cant remember the details behind squad selection at the time, but where was Robert Croft??.

Same thing like now with Swann. Giles was the only test quality spinner during the 02/03 Ashes. So when he got injured the back-up Dawson who wasn't test quality (just like Panesar now) was never going to be good enough to trouble the AUS batsmen & so it proved.

ENG although it wouldn't have made a difference to outcome of the Ashes result in 02/03. Should have played 4 quicks in that series.

 

[Robelinda]

Eng had lots of pace injuries in 02, Silverwood came and went in one day of the Perth test, Tudor was cleaned up by Lee too, Simon Jones in Brisbane etc, each test you really didnt know who was going to be in the Eng team, they have always had very bad luck with injures on tour.

 

[Num]

On a side note. Hauritz certainly wouldn't have made any difference to result @ the Oval if he played. Given that early in that series @ Cardiff & since the Ashes during the AUS summer vs WI @ Adelaide & Perth & vs NZ @ Wellington on wearing tracks - Hauritz failed to be effective.

I'm pretty sure The Oval pitch was far more 'worn' than the pitches you point out there.

Also, Hauritz has a better bowling average and strike rate than Swann in the fourth innings of Test matches (at the time of this post).

I'm not trying to prove that Hauritz is a better bowler than Swann at this point in time, and admittedly Hauritz' bowling average and strike rate in the fourth innings of Test matches can be attributed to the out-of-sorts Pakistan batting line-up, but I don't think he gets the credit he deserves. Hopefully Hauritz performs well in The Ashes and then gets the credit he deserves, as well as more support from fans.

 

[War]

Eng had lots of pace injuries in 02, Silverwood came and went in one day of the Perth test, Tudor was cleaned up by Lee too, Simon Jones in Brisbane etc, each test you really didnt know who was going to be in the Eng team, they have always had very bad luck with injures on tour.

Well yea, all true. I think White also fell injured at some point as well.

I'm pretty sure The Oval pitch was far more 'worn' than the pitches you point out there.

Also, Hauritz has a better bowling average and strike rate than Swann in the fourth innings of Test matches (at the time of this post).

I'm not trying to prove that Hauritz is a better bowler than Swann at this point in time, and admittedly Hauritz' bowling average and strike rate in the fourth innings of Test matches can be attributed to the out-of-sorts Pakistan batting line-up, but I don't think he gets the credit he deserves. Hopefully Hauritz performs well in The Ashes and then gets the credit he deserves, as well as more support from fans.

The Oval was probably only more worn than Wellington, while on par with Perth & Adelaide. But certainly not Cardiff, which is why it would be naive to say Haurtiz would have made any difference if he played @ the Oval.

Most of you already know my position on Haurtiz being in the AUS team & he hasn't done anything notable to deserve credit as a test bowler to date.