West Indian Tour of India, 2013: Sachin's 200th Test Appearance

[Satan666]

The WICB and BCCI have confirmed the West Indian tour of India to take place between 31st October and 27th November.

Scheduled are two test matches and three ODI. When the venues are announced the post will be updated.

The second test would see the incomparable demigod of India Sachin Tendulkar making an unprecedented 200th test appearance. There has been alot of talk that this series was arranged so that Sachin can play his 200th and possibly his last test at home, if so the BCCI have given a gift to the Indians. Many youngsters across the motherland have been inspired by the great man, he is bigger than cricket, bigger than the team and bigger than a test match between South Africa and India. The Indian population have stayed with him in times of sorrow and in times of joy, poor families have hosted celebrations to commemorate his many feats since 1989, the elderly and destitute have drawn courage and inspiration to get them past many hurdles. So the great man's name should not be dragged into the mud the billion plus in India deserves to see him past this landmark and possibly might be the last time he graces an international game.

Also some are arguing he should have been allowed to play against the South Africans a considerably stronger team than the WI, we must realize that the old fella isn't as talented as he was, he has averaged 26 in the last three years and is currently ranked outside the top 20 batsmen in the world! So the West Indian bowlers will pose a formidable match up for Mr. Tendulkar to possibly retire from the game.

Whatever the results are, the cricket between October and November would play second fiddle to the greater story at hand, Sachin Tendulkar's 200th appearance in Test cricket and possibly the last chapter of his career, my most favourite batsman of all time Sachin Tendulkar.

So fellow members please use this thread to discuss the matches and Tendulkar's 200th test match appearance.

(I intend to post no further on this thread, until Sachin plays his 200th test, since I am on a self imposed ban from the forum)

 

[nandu saju]

You cant say that Sachin chose the side with weak bowlers,WI is the team with one of the greatest spinner, Sunil Narine who would show off in Indian conditions.It would be tough for Sachin considering the fact that he got out against the spinners a number of times in the previous series against England and Australia

 

[War]

Darren Sammy being captain of the test will mess up the balance for the Windies team as they will either pick a batsman or bowler short.

If such a WI XI is picked, i reckon they could cause an upset. Narine/Shillingford spin combo is very interesting.

Gayle
Powell
D Bravo
Samuels
C'Paul
DW Bravo
Ramdin
Narine
Shillingford
Rampaul
Roach

K Edwards or Sarwan instead of DW Bravo if they don't want his services as a all-rounder/3rd seamer.

 

[Haynes123]

I would not pick rampaul as he is to unfit for tests, look at that youngster Miguel Cummins and the young Johnson. And under Sammy's leadership west indies have went from nr 8 in the world to nr 5 in 3 years. Also Ramdin is not worthy of his place in the team, when ramdin plays you are playing with only 10 men as he ads nothing with the bat and in the field.

 

[Gone4aDuck]

You cant say that Sachin chose the side with weak bowlers,WI is the team with one of the greatest spinner, Sunil Narine

In t20's perhaps. He's not a test bowler. And tbh not a wonderful odi bowler either. Any half decent bowler with lots of variations could be a good t20 bowler tho. Shane shillingford is the windies best test bowler. IMO of course! Shillingford and Samuels would be good enough in india. Putting both shillingford and narine in the team would make the batting weaker.

 

[War]

I would not pick rampaul as he is to unfit for tests, look at that youngster Miguel Cummins and the young Johnson. And under Sammy's leadership west indies have went from nr 8 in the world to nr 5 in 3 years. Also Ramdin is not worthy of his place in the team, when ramdin plays you are playing with only 10 men as he ads nothing with the bat and in the field.

Rampaul certainly has his fitness issues, but if the team doctors think he can last 2 tests, he is a must pick. He is the windies quick with the best control & that will be crucial to the team on the flat indian surfaces.

Sammy has lead to the team well no doubt, however in the test team his presence continues to mess up the balance. He is more suited to be ODI/T20 captain.

While i think Ramdin although he is not perfect with the bat, in recent windies test matches Ramdin has batted @ # 6 in a effort to accommodate Sammy. Clearly Ramdin is not a test match # 6.

Sammy record as an all-rounder in test since captaincy is way below par too -25 tests, 873 runs @ 23.59 & 50 wickets @ 38.08. That is not good enough for test match all-rounder.

Gayle can easily lead the test team again with no fuss.

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In t20's perhaps. He's not a test bowler. And tbh not a wonderful odi bowler either. Any half decent bowler with lots of variations could be a good t20 bowler tho. Shane shillingford is the windies best test bowler. IMO of course!

Bit harsh to say Narine is not a test bowler & not wonderful ODI bowler. In ODI's last i checked he was ranked #1 in the world too, even though i'd agree somewhat batsmen handle him slightly better in ODI's that in T20s.

He may not have had a rollicking start to his test career, but let's not forget he has hardly played first-class cricket since becoming a world star in 2012. He certainly has all the tools to be a top-class spinner test spinner, its only a matter of time IMO once he plays the longer formats a bit more.

 

[Gone4aDuck]

^ Sammy is a good edition to the team. He's a better batsman than he is given credit for, and although I agree his bowling is poor it still seems to do a job. Would agree rampaul needs to be in the starting XI in India.

 

[Haynes123]

If Rampaul is fit they can pick him, he showed in india now he is still a good bowler, just the fitness issue. I will not pick Gayle as captain, under Sammy there has been immense progress and until they find a proper leader in his place he must continue, I agree that he is not the best batsmen but it would mitigate the problem if your wicket keeper start making runs. I would pick 2 spinners in india, shilly and narine, give narine a chance at test cricket.


I think Miguel Cummins is a must for the west indies especially in new zeeland.

However, I can see many changes in west indies cricket for the better, the senior team performing better, the a team beating india in india, that would be unheard of 10 years ago and the regional team doing well in The champions league

 

[Gone4aDuck]

@haynes
You make good points, but I have to disagree about two specialist spinners in the starting XI. If your going with narine, shillingford, rampaul and roach then that's a very weak tail. A west indies batting line up (that on its day can be embarrassing) to include a weak tail could be suicide.
They class roach as this eras Walsh, so he WONT be dropped. I myself would like to see either Shannon Gabriel or Jason holder groomed into a future star. I see a lot of potential in Jason holder. And let's face it, they need a regular seamer to replace rampaul because with each passing year he gets fatter and less consistent.

 

[War]

I will not pick Gayle as captain, under Sammy there has been immense progress and until they find a proper leader in his place he must continue, I agree that he is not the best batsmen but it would mitigate the problem if your wicket keeper start making runs. I would pick 2 spinners in india, shilly and narine, give narine a chance at test cricket.

I have heard this argument made in defense of Sammy many times & i just can't buy it.

Yes WI have showed some better discipline as a team since Sammy became skipper. But is that really Sammy or has that been the outside influence of coach Gibson?

Plus why is everyone so against Gayle being Windies captain again in any format? People seem to forget when Gayle was captain in test arena for eg b4 the the windies board controversially took the captaincy away from him - he was doing quite well as skipper, defeating ENG 1-0 in 2009 for eg.

Gayle captaincy recently also was key to Jamaica winning the inaugural caribbean T20 as well.

You mention the Sammy position would be mitigated if the keeper started making runs, but that is the problem right there. Windies have known for a long time that unlike other teams worldwide who have test keepers of the batting caliber Prior, Dhoni, De Villiers, Rahim, Watling, De Villiers, Haddin, Chandimal or P Jayawardene - Ramdin is the weakest batting keeper in the world. Only Pakistan with either A Akmal or Sarfraz Ahmed has a weaker batting keeper for tests.

Thus knowing this batting deficiency of Ramdin, batting him as high as # 6 in the windies most recent test 2nd Test: West Indies v Zimbabwe at Roseau, Mar 20-22, 2013 | Cricket Scorecard | ESPN Cricinfo made no cricket sense even though it was ZIM. You bat Ramdin @ # 6 in India its a recipe for disaster.

Ramdin batting so high was a tactic clearly done to accommodate Sammy who based on his record cannot merit a place in the test side. People talk of his captaincy as if he was some equivalent of England's Mike Brearley - it ain't that good.

 

[Aalay]

West Indies tour of India 2013-14 : Kirk Edwards, Chadwick Walton in Test squad for India tour | Cricket News | India v West Indies | ESPN Cricinfo

Darren Sammy (capt), Tino Best, Darren Bravo, Shivnarine Chanderpaul, Sheldon Cotterrell, Narsingh Deonarine, Kirk Edwards, Chris Gayle, Veerasammy Permaul, Kieran Powell, Denesh Ramdin, Kemar Roach, Marlon Samuels, Shane Shillingford and Chadwick Walton
In: Sheldon Cotterrell, Kirk Edwards, Chadwick Walton
Out: Shannon Gabriel

Surprised to see Ravi Rampaul not being named in the squad. He can be very useful on this sub-continent wickets with his reverse swing and his wicket taking ability. Sunil NARINE also misses out.

 

[Samuels]

West Indies tour of India 2013-14 : Kirk Edwards, Chadwick Walton in Test squad for India tour | Cricket News | India v West Indies | ESPN Cricinfo

Surprised to see Ravi Rampaul not being named in the squad. He can be very useful on this sub-continent wickets with his reverse swing and his wicket taking ability. Sunil NARINE also misses out.

Rampaul was not 100% and the selectors have decided not to take a risk with him and for Christ's sake, Narine is not WI's #1 test spinner. No wonder he is not in the team. Samuels, Permaul and Shillingford are more than capable to take wickets on subcontinent wickets. That said, I am quite disappointed to see Nikita Miller being discarded of the opportunity again. The real surprising inclusion is Sheldon Cotterrell. I expected Miguel Cummins to be given the nod in the absence of Rampaul or if they were looking for a left armer, it had to be Delorn Johnson who is capable to perform under pressure. Tried and tested.

 

[Aalay]

Rampaul was not 100% and the selectors have decided not to take a risk with him and for Christ's sake, Narine is not WI's #1 test spinner. No wonder he is not in the team. Samuels, Permaul and Shillingford are more than capable to take wickets on subcontinent wickets. That said, I am quite disappointed to see Nikita Miller being discarded of the opportunity again. The real surprising inclusion is Sheldon Cotterrell. I expected Miguel Cummins to be given the nod in the absence of Rampaul or if they were looking for a left armer, it had to be Delorn Johnson who is capable to perform under pressure. Tried and tested.

Isn't Rampaul playing in CLT20 right now with T&T? When did I say Narine is WI's #1 test spinner? I just said "he misses out" because I at least expected him to be in the squad if not in the final 11.

 

[Samuels]

Isn't Rampaul playing in CLT20 right now with T&T? When did I say Narine is WI's #1 test spinner? I just said "he misses out" because I at least expected him to be in the squad if not in the final 11.

Yes he is not injured but Rampaul's does not seem fit for test matches given how obese he has gone on to become. Narine bit was not intended at you but those who keep on coming up with his name every time WI is to a test squad.

 

[War]

So does the non selection of Narine mean the selectors view him as ODI/T20 specialist only?. If so the selectors need to state this. Sure Narine hasn't had the greatest start to his test career, but he is a bowler whose talent means he should be backed across all three formats. He certainly has all the skills to be as success in tests as he is in ODI/T20s.

If thats not the case, the better not use the excuse of "Narine & Shillingford being two off-spinenrs & thus they want the variety of a left-armer". Nonsense since Australia played two leg-spinners in Warne/MacGill with great success in many tests.

I know for sure the Indian batsmen will be quite glad they won't be facing him in these tests, instead of Narine.

Secondly i'm in the camp (which i know is very big around the caribbean & the windies fan diaspora worldwide) that believes Sammy should not be in the test team much less leading him. He is simply a T20 & ODI player & would be quite fine leading those sides.

His test record since he became in November 2010 is very inadequate for a test all-rounder for any team in any era of cricket - http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/53115.html...

25 test, 873 runs @ 23.59 & 50 wickets @ 38.08 - is not good enough. Once Sammy is in the test team, the windies are either a batsman short or a bowler short. Recently tests vs Zimbabwe, windies had Ramdin batting @ # 6. Ramdin is not a test match # 6, he is barely good enough to bat @ # 7. His batting ability compared to other international test keepers such as Prior, haddin, De Villiers, Chandimal, Mushfiqur, Dhoni is below par. He is only better than Pakistan test keeper Sarfraz Ahmed & whoever keeps for mediocre Zimbabwe.

Thus if the selectors chose to bat Ramdin @ 6 to play Sammy, that is a recipe for disaster in India.

Chris Gayle can easily lead the test team.

My XI & squad for this tour would have been:

Gayle (captain), K Edwards, D Bravo, Samuels, C'Paul, Simmons, Ramdin, Narine, Shillingford, Roach, Cotterell

K Powell, Walton, DW Bravo, Best

I can understand Rampaul not being picked because he only just came back to cricket after a long injury lay-off.

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Narine is not WI's #1 test spinner. No wonder he is not in the team.

The real surprising inclusion is Sheldon Cotterrell. I expected Miguel Cummins to be given the nod in the absence of Rampaul or if they were looking for a left armer, it had to be Delorn Johnson who is capable to perform under pressure. Tried and tested.

Well yea sure on form Narine certainly isn't the windies # 1 test spinner - that is Shillingford for sure. But how does Permaul seriously deserve to be selected in the squad above Narine?. That is madness.

Watching the just concluded caribbean T20 Cotterell was easily the most impressive young windies bowler on show & was a level ahead of Cummins or Johnson (the other left-armer as you said). It was no surprise then that the selectors would have fast tracked him to the international set-up.