West Indies Tour of England - May to June 2012

[Owzat]

^I agree with most of that re: Bell So your answer is Davies to open with Cook? Or are you just proposing trying any kid with promise under 25/21 until you strike gold? That's the Aussie approach of late eg. Steve Smith, Phil Hughes, Usmna Khawaja, Dave Warner, Pat Cummins, James Pattinson etc. I guess it's worked, but I'm not really a fan of it, especially with batsmen.

I haven't followed county cricket closely enough for a while to really single out talent that hasn't already been suggested.

Davies could open with Cook, or just bat down the order to show his mettle. I do not like Kieswetter pinch-hitting, I hate the whole circus of England picking keepers to open as you probably know. That said he has batted a time or two down the order, I'd still rather see Davies in the side.

Kieswetter has an ok average, but not one I'd want opening. I prefer to have attacking keepers batting in the latter overs to accelerate the innings when needed, not to try and score quickly leaving England very quickly on say 70 for 2-3 wickets. Opening is a key partnership for me, setting the tone for the innings.

Kieswetter (ODIs)

861 runs @ 29.69

ODIs 01-16 : 481 runs @ 32.07
ODIs 17-32 : 380 runs @ 25.33

He has nine single figure scores including three ducks and gets out for 10-25 in a further eight innings. So while we might get runs at a "wham bam thankyou mam" rate, over half of them are over far too quickly. Cameos are for the late order, we need innings. Fair enough he does go on to a decent score from time to time, but maybe we should open with Cook and Trott to build a platform and then have the quick run getters coming in when the score is set. It's not like Cook is a slouch, or that Trott can't accelerate.

Ironically Trott has a better SR than Bell, and while three innings is not a conclusive sample, 208 runs @ 104.00 say to me Trott should be tried as an opener. But as I've said before I'd prefer we have as much a different set of players as possible.

But going back to Bell because of, I can only assume, form in Tests is stooooopid.

 

[sifter132]

Davies could open with Cook, or just bat down the order to show his mettle. I do not like Kieswetter pinch-hitting, I hate the whole circus of England picking keepers to open as you probably know. That said he has batted a time or two down the order, I'd still rather see Davies in the side.

Kieswetter has an ok average, but not one I'd want opening. I prefer to have attacking keepers batting in the latter overs to accelerate the innings when needed, not to try and score quickly leaving England very quickly on say 70 for 2-3 wickets. Opening is a key partnership for me, setting the tone for the innings.

My idea about opening in ODIs is this: keep it steady when setting a score, pinch-hit when chasing to keep ahead of the rate.

I think your openers need to be able to hit big scores and that's why Gilchrist was BRILLIANT in misleading world cricket Everyone thought he was promoted to score quickly, but in reality it was because he could make 100s at the top, and yes score them quickly too...

When I was writing about Trescothick in the top 100 thread it struck me how many 100s he made, and that's really what England need to find again: a big scoring opener. Pietersen could have been that guy - I loved his promotion.

So anyway...here's a list of players who have scored more than 1 List A century since the 2011 English season began:
4 - James Taylor
3 - Alastair Cook
3 - Ed Joyce..............Irish (again, right??)
3 - Martin Guptill.........Kiwi
3 - Moe Ali
3 - Phil Mustard
2 - Craig Kieswetter
2 - Gareth Rees
2 - Jason Roy
2 - Kevin Pietersen.....Retired
2 - Michael Carberry...past 30 now
2 - Phil Hughes..........Aussie
2 - Paul Stirling..........Irish

Hmm, interesting list...maybe worth giving Kieswetter a longer look and encourage him to go for those big scores, not just to attack. James Taylor's done well, but I guess he's a middle order guy. Moe Ali is a guy I'd like to see more of, seems an interesting player.

 

[angryangy]

Meanwhile, England fans brood with frustration at the sight of Ian Bell providing everything they were hoping for from some other player.

 

[Dutch]

Meanwhile, England fans brood with frustration at the sight of Ian Bell providing everything they were hoping for from some other player.

Very, very true. Ian Bell has played beautifully till now (touch wood) and done everything one could ask for him in this role. I must admit that I do get frustrated by Trott in ODI's. It is good when he is accompanied by someone really pushing the rate along but otherwise he seems to have the tendency to drag things to a halt.

 

[Owzat]

I stand by my assertions Bell isn't an answer, and try Trott at the top. So Bell is blasting towards a hundred at a run a ball (give or take), doesn't prove a lot. It is only the windies, and one swallow (score) doesn't make a summer (star)

Still can't criticise him for making runs when he does, just hope England don't throw away what he and Trott built. Too often in the past they get to 100 and lose wickets which loses momentum and they lose their way completely. England could post 300 IF they don't toss it away. While England have got Broad, Bresnan and Swann heading the last five batting slots, another wicket or two and the position won't look as secure as it did at 108/1 before Trottsky departed.

108/1 off 20.3 overs, 9.0 overs later 60 runs but two wickets more gone - talking of Mor-gan, maybe he and Bell will determine the winners here. Could have been a lot more interesting had Gayle been fit.


Oh and nice to see AGAIN the BBC putting non-live "news" on the front page ahead of a match which is live and happening

 

[Dutch]

Kevin who??

 

[MUFC1987]

Hmm, interesting list...maybe worth giving Kieswetter a longer look and encourage him to go for those big scores, not just to attack. James Taylor's done well, but I guess he's a middle order guy. Moe Ali is a guy I'd like to see more of, seems an interesting player.

That's very much been the issue when he's played for England. At Somerset, he looks to build an innings and get a big score, while Trescothick looks to get that quick score to get the innings going at the other end. That means that Kieswetter gets big scores and he does score quickly eventually, like a run a ball 100, but he starts off much slower.

With England, he's expected to do the opposite and be the guy providing that quick start, which is just not his natural game. That's why he's struggled a bit in that role. He got his hundred in the ODIs he played in Bangladesh, cos he took his time and built his innings.

 

[jacobfelix]

So far, Ramdin has taken 4 catches successfully

"Yea, Viv, Talk Na"

 

[angryangy]

I just think Kieswetter is a bit limited by his technique and sharp bowling can work him out. He's just not the best through the legside and in ODIs you really need guys who can do that moreso than being able to lift the ball over mid off or cover.

 

[MUFC1987]

I disagree, he's got all the shots and can play them, he just perhaps loses shape a bit too much when he's trying to force it. You're giving the example of sharp bowling causing him problems, but I'd say that only happened when Australia had that Tait/Johnson/Lee trio playing and that was more due to him being in bad form than anything for me. He can score quickly from the word go, but it's not his forte as he needs time to get going. Which he gets at Somerset, which results in him doing very well. It's a luxury that he's never really been afforded in the England team.

 

[angryangy]

Tim Bresnan, the ladies love him.

 

[swacker]

Decent total. Shame we were cack from 30-45

 

[Satan666]

The IPL has drained out the WI players, I expect a total whitewash by the English.

 

[sifter132]

^At least they still have their wallets to cry into

Meanwhile, England fans brood with frustration at the sight of Ian Bell providing everything they were hoping for from some other player.

Was always going to happen wasn't it? I totally don't care about England's fortunes...but if I'm gonna watch England play I guess I'd rather see a stylish cat like Bell at the top rather than a hacker who can smack it...or Trott.

And what's with the collapse? With Smith there WI were looking good...someone with some backbone in the middle order wouldn't go astray. Shiv, wherefore art thou??

 

[Owzat]

Bell done well, shame about the interruption and windies lack of bite. Interestingly Bell was 126no at Lords in his only previous ODI century and England finished on 288/2 from their 50 overs winning by just over 100 runs...................

Still leaves Bell on 1506 runs @ 30.73 from his last 56 ODIs, has boosted his SR to 74.20

D/L does it again, windies lose two overs and only two runs off the target. Never going to be a million miles wrong, but even in their slower overs you'd expect 2-3 an over.

Current England batting averages/SRs

Kieswetter (33 ODIs) : 899 runs @ 31.00 (SR 91.92)

Morgan (76 ODIs) : 2328 runs @ 38.16 (SR 83.05)
Cook (46 ODIs) : 1781 runs @ 40.48 (SR 80.52)
Shah (71 ODIs) : 1834 runs @ 30.57 (SR 78.68)
Trott (43 ODIs) : 1878 runs @ 48.15 (SR 77.38)

Bopara (73 ODIs) : 1676 runs @ 29.93 (SR 75.19)
Bell (109 ODIs) : 3360 runs @ 35.00 (SR 74.20)

(relative) newbies

Davies (8 ODIs) : 244 runs @ 30.50 (SR 105.63)
Bairstow (6 ODIs) : 90 runs @ 22.50 (SR 87.38)
Stokes (5 ODIs) : 30 runs @ 10.00 (SR 57.69)
Taylor (1 ODI) : 1 run @ 1.00 (SR 12.50)
Buttler (1 ODI) : 0 runs @ 0.00 (SR n/a)

Retired - Pietersen (127 ODIs) : 4814 runs @ 41.84 (SR 86.75)

Ironically Carberry has only played Tests, well one, and no ODIs. Can't see what Davies has done wrong, better SR than, and similar average to, Kieswetter. Now would be a good time to either bring in new blood or give some who've been given a handful of games before being dumped for the Test bunch. They'll then complain the players are fatigued from long Test tours/series and the international schedule when we flunk it up at the next World Cup.

Just goes to show they barely give players a chance, when did we play a one-off ODI that justifies picking and dumping youngsters?!?!? They gave74 caps between them to Wright and Yardy for both to average low 20s with the bat and over 50 with ball, they've given just TWENTY-ONE caps to potential ODI stars of the future, for all we know they could win us the World Cup while the players we repeatedly pick fail World Cup after World Cup after World Cup.

Notice how the newbies are ordered by SR and how the more ODIs they play, the more runs and better SR they get................

I'd like someone to ask Pietersen if he had Bell in mind to take his place when he retired.........................