What do you mean by stat tracking?

[Chief]

Stat Tracking is an integral part of the game of cricket and should be implement in Ashes 2013.

This is an excellent point, and one that is raised perennially.

Could you specify *exactly* what you mean by this: in the past when questioned on it, different people meant slightly different things by this, and I want to make sure we understand all potential aspects:
Are we talking about tracking the stats of PLAYERS across a series/tournament?
Updating stats in the game, adding a player's runs to their all-time total?
Tracking the USER's stats during play?
The game keeps tabs on a players innings in the context of their CAREER stats: IE, if a player goes into a game on 980 career runs and scores 20, the game recognises his 1000th run?

Any help you guys can give me identifying specifically ALL of the "stat-tracking" that you expect now means a better chance you won't be disappointed come release! It's almost worth it's OWN thread. ;-)

 

[sami ullah khan]

This is an excellent point, and one that is raised perennially.

Could you specify *exactly* what you mean by this: in the past when questioned on it, different people meant slightly different things by this, and I want to make sure we understand all potential aspects:
Are we talking about tracking the stats of PLAYERS across a series/tournament?
Updating stats in the game, adding a player's runs to their all-time total?
Tracking the USER's stats during play?
The game keeps tabs on a players innings in the context of their CAREER stats: IE, if a player goes into a game on 980 career runs and scores 20, the game recognises his 1000th run?

Any help you guys can give me identifying specifically ALL of the "stat-tracking" that you expect now means a better chance you won't be disappointed come release! It's almost worth it's OWN thread. ;-)

I think it includes all the things that you have mentioned. Lets say your game starts when Clark has scored 8000 test runs and these are his stats input in the game. The game should update his stats as clark plays through the game. Every match that he plays be it a computer generated match in a tournament or when he is part of the human player's team, should reflect on his stats. His average, strike rate and number of runs should change as the game progresses. Stats should appear during match as in real life when a player come into bat/bowl or randomly e.g when he scores a hundred. Similarly during a tournament, the tournament stats should appear separately for each player.
This is my take on stat's tracking. If any body has any other ideas, now is the time to speak up.

 

[Skater]

Perhaps choose a date, let's say 1st April 2013, and release the game with every player's stats accurate up to that date. I wouldn't add to these stats for every single game played by the user, though, just for each game saved. So, for example, if I played an exhibition match the stats would be as they were on 1/4/13 even if I had earlier saved a game halfway through an Ashes series. In the saved Ashes series, the stats should be updated as I go along.

Those would be the overall stats, but there should be individual stats for each tournament or series, as well as stats for the user as a whole - how many matches have I played, how many runs have I scored, wickets taken etc.

 

[barmyarmy]

A lot of it is about the individual and team stats for a tour or series. This is all stuff that used to be in older cricket games and then somehow got dropped. I'm sure I've heard BLC99 referenced as a benchmark for stat tracking? Will try to find out what was so good about it as I've not played it for a long time.

 

[Dutch]

Have a look at a management type game, especially Cricket Coach, which is a stats heaven. Of course not all players of the game will be interested in this side of things which is fine but many of us love gloating over strikerates, averages, making comparisons throughout many tournaments and series. There is not a game in the world that is driven by statistics as cricket and needs to be part of the game, not just in a cosmetic sense. The current form of a player should be determined by his previous efforts, with highs and lows and dips and peaks and unfathomable anomilities. That is why cricket is such a brilliant, brilliant game. The ability to wade through screen after screen of statistics and charts and graphs that get carried through ones career is for many cricket fans just as enjoyable as playing the darn thing!

 

[barmyarmy]

The ability to wade through screen after screen of statistics and charts and graphs that get carried through ones career is for many cricket fans just as more enjoyable as playing the darn thing!

Corrected for you. Screw actually playing the game. We just want stats....

 

[Dutch]

Corrected for you. Screw actually playing the game. We just want stats....

Well fixed indeed! Hopefully they will implement something in this coming game. Too often a misplaced, in my opinion, emphasis has been given to accomodate the " newcomer" or " casual gamer". Fine , I understand that from a commercial point of view but flightsims like FSX and X plane have proven for donkeys years that you can do both without any problem. Someone who doesnt want all the stats and complicated shot selection etcetera can have it, where as the diehards can have their delights as well. Please dont sacrifice depth in the vain hope of achieving more sales for those seeking less depth. Make a game with different levels of depth to meet different end users perception of a great game! Please! Sod it, I will even add a pretty to that please!

 

[puddleduck]

Cricket is a niche sport so attempting to appeal to newcomers invariably alienates the existing playerbase rather than attract a new one.

In the idea of a tour/career mode stats should update for all players, whilst being able to check previous series as isolated events. Exhibition stats should remain the same for all players with the exception of 'your own created pro.' being able to get to the end of a series and look at leading run scorers/wicket takers/etc is really a given and the bare minimum that should be available.

 

[las_faiz]

Hi Chief. Stats are big part of cricket. It includes everything like team Win/loss. Player individual stats in all 3 types of the game. Records. The more implemented the better

 

[MattW]

Once concern about stats tracking I have is that over time the stats become unrealistic if the game's AI doesn't fairly perfectly represent real cricket - something I honestly don't expect to happen, as with any game you're still bounded by the fact people will discover the limits - most people will play far more aggressively on a video game than in real life, and even if the AI could compensate for that, I'd always expect the simulated version to naturally end up at higher run rates, more wickets, etc.

As the main reason I'd want stat tracking to be comprehensive is so that players are influenced by form in the game, if tracking stats causes an imbalance in the AI it would be a bad thing rather than a good thing. Conversely, if stat tracking was merely cosmetic (counted but does nothing real), then it isn't something I'd particularly care about.

Perhaps the balance to this is to make the stats of players impact more on higher difficulties, that way slogging about in Easy doesn't warp things when you play seriously.

Maybe even just penalise the stats in some situations - if you're playing too well, kick a player down a few skill levels to try and normalise their stats.

 

[barmyarmy]

Nice big can of worms you've just opened there

 

[Dutch]

.

Perhaps the balance to this is to make the stats of players impact more on higher difficulties, that way slogging about in Easy doesn't warp things when you play seriously.

Maybe even just penalise the stats in some situations - if you're playing too well, kick a player down a few skill levels to try and normalise their stats.

This would encompass my "loss of form" idea whereby players would have computer generated form lapses which had to be built up again, just like good old real life.....(if real life really exists, which I doubt)

 

[Biggs]

^This. The Loss of Form really goes hand-in-hand with a stat tracking type feature. Rewards for 1000 runs, and benchmarks would be a cute addition (perhaps it's just a scoreboard flash-screen) but not really as important as things like Injuries, Form and high-score tracking. Being able to bring up a window that shows, say, the 10 most recent scores so you can make selection decisions would be something that would bring more realism. Perhaps there's a simple colour code/icon that Blue means Good form, Yellow Means Borderline and Red means out of form.

Perhaps too, there's a reward for giving an out of form player a shot in the line-up, so his "form" comes back more quickly the longer he bats. It's a gradient-type thing, like I've spoken about before.

As the main reason I'd want stat tracking to be comprehensive is so that players are influenced by form in the game, if tracking stats causes an imbalance in the AI it would be a bad thing rather than a good thing. Conversely, if stat tracking was merely cosmetic (counted but does nothing real), then it isn't something I'd particularly care about.

This is a really important point you make, I think Cricket 07 (?) had a feature whereby on a "tour" players "form" was recognized by the game and while on the tour you'd be able to bring up a mini window of their recent top scores and had a little colour indicator as to whether they were "in form" or not. You could then decide to drop/play players based on their current form from within the tour.

I think that basic "Form" feature is a must for any next-gen cricket game. Building into that realistic part of cricket whereby if a player is struggling, that is reflected in their shot-selection in game and their ability to score more freely. Adds an extra level of difficulty within each contest.

Plus, makes you feel more involved in the selection of the team and (on a tour) there's repercussions for constantly having a player (or players) dismissed more regularly.

...also the "form" feature would make it easier to build in features like injuries, etc. The game could restrict you from selecting certain players once their form dropped too low and/or they were injured perhaps? All these things could be build from a basic "Stat Tracking" type of feature.

______


Either way, it's a fine line between including TOO many Stats, and not enough. Remembering, it's an arcade game first you don't want to overblow it with meaningless stuff that's going to take up valuable space for other just as important features. Form, is such an important (nay, integral) part of any cricket team, be it local or international, it's really important to have that basic mechanic in any simulator.

 

[Chief]

Cricket is a niche sport so attempting to appeal to newcomers invariably alienates the existing playerbase rather than attract a new one..

I FULLY agree that appealing to newcomers can alienate the hardcore if not handled carefully... However, I think that there are black and white statistics that prove that it can attract a new one. (Which formats of AC09 sold the most and which, by far, sold the least copies, for example?)

For those of us at the hardcore end of the market it's frustrating, but cold statistics say that there's a lot more casual fans willing to give a Cricket game a go than there are of us... So I think from a commercial point of view most publishers would look to start with the casual and try to layer in depth, rather than starting with the core and then making it more accessible...

The statistics make it hard to argue sometimes, but I actually think there's better ways to solve the problem than the way that most go about it and I'm hoping we've cracked it with some of the key design decisions we've taken with AC2013.
I'll lay out the specifics later, but the root of it can be found in a short piece I wrote a while back for Appynation's blog here:
Firth?s First Law of Games Design | AppyNation

NB: If we could NOT use this as an invitation to remind me of all the times I've broken my own law, I'd appreciate it: let's just assume there were good commercial reasons that I did somewhere...

 

[Dutch]

I FULLY agree that appealing to newcomers can alienate the hardcore if not handled carefully... However, I think that there are black and white statistics that prove that it can attract a new one. (Which formats of AC09 sold the most and which, by far, sold the least copies, for example?)

For those of us at the hardcore end of the market it's frustrating, but cold statistics say that there's a lot more casual fans willing to give a Cricket game a go than there are of us... So I think from a commercial point of view most publishers would look to start with the casual and try to layer in depth, rather than starting with the core and then making it more accessible...

The statistics make it hard to argue sometimes, but I actually think there's better ways to solve the problem than the way that most go about it and I'm hoping we've cracked it with some of the key design decisions we've taken with AC2013.
I'll lay out the specifics later, but the root of it can be found in a short piece I wrote a while back for Appynation's blog here:
Firth?s First Law of Games Design | AppyNation

NB: If we could NOT use this as an invitation to remind me of all the times I've broken my own law, I'd appreciate it: let's just assume there were good commercial reasons that I did somewhere...

Excellent, which proves the point that a game needs to work at different levels for different levels of ability.

Each user stepping in will have a different knowledge of cricket and a different expectation of experience and therefore each users parameters regarding decision/action will have a different meaning to them.

User A will want to know....how do I slog the ball over the boundary for six? User B on the other hand will want to know how can I play this ball against the spin and nurdle the ball through that gap to keep the strike in the next over.

However after a time, if the game is enjoyable for user A he starts to look for more in depth decisonmaking as his knowledge increases of the possibilities of the game increases both from a cricket and gaming perspective.

Therefore it makes more than commercial sense to ensure the longetivity of a game by making sure that there are different points of stepping in and a gradual incline towards a solid hardcore experience that can be achieved by those wishing to do so.

Flightsim does this excellently. I can step in and fly my 747 around the grand canyon if I want, at the same time I can reproduce every single checklist and procedure if I should wish to.

My argument is that even though you will not attract the new players by making the game too hardcore you will lose them again if it isnt hardcore enough. A game is designed around different circles as it were. If I am satisfied with the playing circle I am in I never need to leave it. If however I want to move on or want to step in somewhere else, circle B or C or D gives me that.