Alastair Cook & Stuart Broad - England's new headboys

[cricket_icon]

t20 international matches have just been shoe horned in to make extra money. 1 or 2 matches per series? man the ICC are mad. leave t20 to domestic level comps and t20 wc.

 

[Yaserk99]

The thread title is wrong

Broad comes across as being more a rent-boy.

 

[Sureshot]

Can we leave the childish rubbish out of here please.

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Don't know why people are saying KP should have got it, or have they forgotten his time as captain? I don't see him getting it again, I'm not even sure he wants it and the setup want him to focus on batting.

I really don't get why people are already berating this as a terrible decision. Cook is captaincy material and is more than good enough to open the innings and bat through. Best players are your best players. I don't see anything wrong with:

Cook
Kieswetter/Davies
Trott
KP
Morgan

As a top five in ODIs. It was obvious Cook was getting the job, whilst granted, him not playing in ODIs before being made captain is a bit unusual and a strange decision, I don't think it's particularly bad, least not because can I remind people that since being announced as full ODI captain he's not even played!

As for the claims that Broad doesn't have the tactical nous for T20, again, yes, he doesn't have any experience captaining, but then this is T20, it's about as tactical as a cluster bomb. He'll lead by performance in T20s and that's what you need. It could well do his game wonders, make him grow up a bit and mature in to, potentially, one of the greatest cricketers of his generation.

Ultimately. Give them a chance!

I'm going to back decisions from a management team that has led us to successive Ashes victories and our first limited overs tournament trophy and at least give Cook and Broad a chance to prove themselves.

It's fair enough to say that they made bad decisions with Yardy in the WC and Prior's return, because they didn't work. But they've not even played yet, it's most bemusing.

 

[harrisb]

Do we really need different captains in different formats? I suppose we have to, because Strauss is one of the best test skippers around at the moment, but doesn't have a role in either of the limited over sides at the moment IMO. Cook's definitely Captain material, and in the long run will probably succeed Strauss, but he doesn't play ODIs nor does he play much Twenty20. I struggle to see why Broad wasn't offered the captaincy for both formats, but we'll wait and see.

Roll on Cook's ODI century @ Lord's this summer, wiping that smug grin off the Indian's faces.

 

[War]

Yeah, I meant those meaningless series they play each tour. There really is no point in them at all other than getting a few more crowd numbers. Apart from the T20 world cup the rest of twenty20 at international level is ridiculous. It's good how its done at domestic level with the tournaments, but its the kind of format where I dont really think a series would work. I think if they had a small tri series or something that could be quite interesting.

Hmm interesting idea i must say.

In T20 you are expected to score at a million miles an hour whilst in the 50-over format, you have a bit more time to play yourself in get set and then at the end go at a million miles an hour, which will suit Cook well (except for the fast scoring at end bit).


I wonder if Cook will look to take a few more risks in his strokeplay in order to up his scoring rate. And if he does, will those shots slowly creep into his batting when he's playing Tests?

Thats a good question & one which i would hope doesn't happen. Cook recent revival in the Ashes was basically based upon him becoming an even more defensive batsman, as was shown by him cutting out his square driving until he passed 50-100 (the area which caused him all his technical woes between Ashes 06/07 - Pakistan 2010). His batting in was very old fashioned, only if he was scoring those runs Hayden style would i probably think about giving him another shot in T20s - but he wasn't.

 

[War]

Don't know why people are saying KP should have got it, or have they forgotten his time as captain? I don't see him getting it again, I'm not even sure he wants it and the setup want him to focus on batting.

I really don't get why people are already berating this as a terrible decision. Cook is captaincy material and is more than good enough to open the innings and bat through. Best players are your best players. I don't see anything wrong with:

Cook
Kieswetter/Davies
Trott
KP
Morgan

As a top five in ODIs. It was obvious Cook was getting the job, whilst granted, him not playing in ODIs before being made captain is a bit unusual and a strange decision, I don't think it's particularly bad, least not because can I remind people that since being announced as full ODI captain he's not even played!

As for the claims that Broad doesn't have the tactical nous for T20, again, yes, he doesn't have any experience captaining, but then this is T20, it's about as tactical as a cluster bomb. He'll lead by performance in T20s and that's what you need. It could well do his game wonders, make him grow up a bit and mature in to, potentially, one of the greatest cricketers of his generation.

Ultimately. Give them a chance!

I'm going to back decisions from a management team that has led us to successive Ashes victories and our first limited overs tournament trophy and at least give Cook and Broad a chance to prove themselves.

It's fair enough to say that they made bad decisions with Yardy in the WC and Prior's return, because they didn't work. But they've not even played yet, it's most bemusing.

Ok just a few points:

Firstly. Even if i where to buy all the boring assertion given by many why KP shouldn't be given captain or that he didn't want or excuses about his 1st stint as captain (which i remind you was coach Peter Moores fault & not his).

If all of that played into the decision making of not making KP ODI or T20 captain. Can you explain to me why the next most senior & ESTABLISHED limited overs player in the England setup in Graeme Swann wasn't given it????.

Why if its obvious to the world that Broad has no captaincy experience @ senior cricket level, why do we need to be giving him such a serious job when he never showed us these skills, in all his years of playing for England??. Even if a man has never captained serious before @ any level, i would think he @ least on the field of play needed to show he was a leader of men via performances or attitude or something - Broad always is a peripheral figure on the field when ENG play (expect for his tirades to opposition batsmen at times). Someone like Swann does the above which you would want in a captain.



Secondly no - you best players aren't your best players. What would be more apt to say is some of your best players aren't necessarily your best players across all formats. As was the case with:

Yuvraj - Top limited overs player poor test player

Gavin Larsen - good odi player poor test player

Brett Lee from 2001-2005 was a just a good ODI bowler but a average test bowler who basically fed off McGrath/Dizzy/Warne

Nick Knight & Neil Fairbrother - Quality ODI players - poor test players

Abdur Razzaq & Afridi ODI>tests

Roger Twose

Staurt Clark - Top test bowler @ his peak. But average/poor ODI player

Langer & Slater - Top test openers - poor ODI players

etc etc etc etc etc

The list goes on throughout cricker history & Cook in this category. He has shown no evidence in the past & no genuine signs of improvement to suggest "he is good enough to bat through a ODI innings".

Thirdly. Why do need to go back to Cook - a proven ODI failure who represent old style played out ODI opening. When you got potentially destructive ODI openers who are better suited to taking advantage of the power player overs like young Hales, opening with both Kieswetter & Davies (& letting one of them give up the gloves) or even Michael Lumb?.

Its not as if England as the case was in 2009 during that tour to the Windies, when Strauss was reluctantly given a chance to open again in ODIs - that England are struggling for alternative options to open the ODI innings - WE HAVE!

Also again nobody is question whether Cook is captaincy material, its obvious
he has that. The problem is ODIs should be used as training ground for his captaincy in tests.

Their is no need to rush Cook rise & grooming to the test captaincy, he is still only 26, likely has another decade in the England team. Just being vice-captain & having to be involved in decisions during a game, plus when Strauss gets injured him captaining in the odd test is good enough preparation for the time being. He has ALOT of time to learn/further.

England's ODI & test sides success/failures are two different worlds & need two different approaches. One T20 world-cup win (which doesn't even prove England are the best T20 side or have great T20 side anyway, they just happened to play the best cricket in the tournament). Cannot override 20 years of abysmal ODI performances, in which another we just had another crap world cup performance (although injuries to key players played a part this time).

Flower & the England management are making the same mistakes in ODI selections that their predecessors since the 1992 world-cup have made. So the restraint towards critiquing them just because he lead us to an Ashes win & T20 WC win & the "GIVE THEM A CHANCE" cry towards Cook & Broad leading doesn't hold water my friend. Repeating the same mistakes for 20 years is borderline stupidity.

 

[angryangy]

Langer

Had a Test batting average of 23 when he played his last ODI, so if anything he's an argument for second chances. Although he gained his ascendancy in Tests with upper order grit and graft, he was actually a most effective lower order hitter who also doubled as a keeper. In the modern game, Healy's ODI record is rather unthinkable and it's funny to imagine that only Gilchrist could take his spot. Meanwhile, Langer fashioned an excellent state and county record, doing nothing to suggest he could not have re-emerged in ODIs during his Test peak.

 

[Owzat]

Why if its obvious to the world that Broad has no captaincy experience @ senior cricket level, why do we need to be giving him such a serious when he never showed us in all his years of playing for England??. Even if a man has never captained serious before @ any level, i would think he @ least on the field of play needed to show he was a leader of men on the field of play via performance or attitudeor something - Broad always is peripheral figure on the field when ENG play (expect for his tirades to opposition batsmen at times). Someone like Swann does the above.

Broad blotted his copybook, should not be anywhere near the captaincy. The captain should be assured of his place for his role, not because he is captain ie you pick the captain from someone who is established in the team, and not a superstar like KP who has hard enough time keeping a level head without the captaincy

Thirdly. Why do need to go back to Cook - a proven ODI failure who represent old style played out ODI opening.

Not sure you can really call an ODI batting average of 33.00 over 26 ODIs with an (admittedly modest) SR of 71.38 a "proven ODI failure".

Among his last 10 innings he has scored 60 off 61 balls, 64 off 68 balls, and 69 off 88 balls. Four fifties, 375 runs @ 37.50 and at a slightly improved SR of 74.70 which is on par with a number of England players who played in the World Cup - except Cook is an opener and a strong opening platform can be, if not is, more important than scoring dashing 10s and 20s at a run a ball and seeing the side slip from 100/1 to 160/4

Also again nobody is question whether Cook is captaincy material, its obvious
he has that. The problem is ODIs should be used as training ground for his captaincy in tests.

I did wonder about his captaincy credentials when doing my previous post, but wasn't sure how much he had and frankly who is experienced who you could pick who wouldn't have to be picked mainly on that grounds? We wouldn't want ourselves a Lee Germon.

Flower & the England management are making the same mistakes in ODI selections that their predecessors since the 1992 world-cup have made. So the restraint towards critiquing them just because he lead us to an Ashes win & T20 WC win & the "GIVE THEM A CHANCE" cry towards Cook & Broad leading doesn't hold water my friend. Repeating the same mistakes for 20 years is borderline stupidity.

Focus is way too much on excuses and reviewing captaincy, the problems lie much deeper and we should follow the bangladeshi example and have a full blown enquiry and review of what was a pretty feeble World Cup - we only got to the QFs because neither Ireland nor Bangladesh were consistent enough to make most of our slips.

Our excuses were more of less self-inflicted, players tired because we picked most of the Test XI after a tough tour Injuries are inevitable as well if you do that. It reminds me of some Premiership clubs that bemoan injuries and a small squad, well do something about it then You keep picking your best players week in, week out, they will be tired and get injured

 

[Sureshot]

War - My whole point about KP not getting the captaincy again is due to the same people being at the top of the ECB. It ain't gonna happen, and frankly, I agree with them. He needs to find his desire for being the best player in the world again.

Some mentioned Mascarenhas, again, his tirade against Geoff Miller means he's not going to be anywhere near the side for a while (possibly again). I think there are better options, he did okay, but didn't really set the side a light.

I think it's also worthy to note that if you actually read my post you'd have realised that I'm giving them a chance, I don't particularly agree with it all, but you can't claim it a failure before it's even begun. People wrote off Strauss as an ODI player a couple of years ago, yet his average, runs and S/R have exceeded all expectations of Strauss in ODIs. No reason Cook cannot do the same, I think people greatly exaggerate his inability to play OD cricket. But he should have been given more time in the ODI side if he was going to be given the captaincy post World-Cup. That is pretty stupid, I'll agree on that.

I think Broad as T20 captain could massively help his game and maturity, you don't need a captain in T20, so it doesn't really matter. If he can take that in to the Test side, then brilliant. If it doesn't work out, so what? It's entertainment, not cricket.

Ultimately, they'll be judged on their performances and not our discussions. This summer is massive that is for sure. Success in one of the ODI series gives Cook a massive tick in my book. I'm expecting nothing from the ODI's this summer in terms of results.

 

[AkshayS]

Broad, seriously. Don't know why but I just can't believe, can't imagine Broad leading the men in dark blue. It should've been Swann.

 

[War]

Had a Test batting average of 23 when he played his last ODI, so if anything he's an argument for second chances. Although he gained his ascendancy in Tests with upper order grit and graft, he was actually a most effective lower order hitter who also doubled as a keeper. In the modern game, Healy's ODI record is rather unthinkable and it's funny to imagine that only Gilchrist could take his spot. Meanwhile, Langer fashioned an excellent state and county record, doing nothing to suggest he could not have re-emerged in ODIs during his Test peak.

In a way your right you know. Langer during his test peak from Oval 2001 - SCG 2006, really did improve in his OD game as i recall during his stint in county cricket playing for Somerset. But of course as we both know, given the strength of AUS ODI team during those years, JL could never have gotten the chance to show that improvement on the international stage.

 

[hedger_14]

Broad? Really? English cricket just keeps getting lower.

 

[War]

Not sure you can really call an ODI batting average of 33.00 over 26 ODIs with an (admittedly modest) SR of 71.38 a "proven ODI failure".

Among his last 10 innings he has scored 60 off 61 balls, 64 off 68 balls, and 69 off 88 balls. Four fifties, 375 runs @ 37.50 and at a slightly improved SR of 74.70 which is on par with a number of England players who played in the World Cup - except Cook is an opener and a strong opening platform can be, if not is, more important than scoring dashing 10s and 20s at a run a ball and seeing the side slip from 100/1 to 160/4


Do you remember the last time Cook was recalled to the ODI team in 2009/2010 for series in South Africa & Bangladesh. On the back of a so called transformation & improved technique in his batting with the help of Graham Gooch in a few domestic limited overs game at the end of the 2009 season?. Read here: Gooch fine-tunes his young protege | Cricket Features | England v Australia 2009 | ESPN Cricinfo

Do you remember then how when he actually played in those international ODI games vs BANG & ZIM we then saw nothing had changed & the selectors immediately dropped him?.

They dropped him because the hype of his return to the limited overs set-up based on a few county innings where he scored hundreds @ the back end of the 2009 season & Gooch's tecnhinque help. But when he retuned to international scene it was the same average Cook in ODIs & the abruptly drop him. Those innings where against Bangladesh of all people aslo, which couldn't have helped his case.

He has played no OD cricket since then domestically or internationally for them to even see if a probably change has been made. Only thing that has happend since that BANG tour in early 2009, is just the other day he eradicated his 4 year technical issues in test during the Ashes, now he seemingly on the up as a test batsman.

The decision making to recall him has no legitimate cricket sense as i mentioned before, since you got better options who are proven stroker or natural stroker players who can potentially do a job opening in ODIs - who deserve a chance before/if Cook is tried again.

I did wonder about his captaincy credentials when doing my previous post, but wasn't sure how much he had and frankly who is experienced who you could pick who wouldn't have to be picked mainly on that grounds? We wouldn't want ourselves a Lee Germon.

We could pretty soon if Cook doesn't prove doubters wrong. Swann should be ODI & T20 captain.

Focus is way too much on excuses and reviewing captaincy, the problems lie much deeper and we should follow the bangladeshi example and have a full blown enquiry and review of what was a pretty feeble World Cup - we only got to the QFs because neither Ireland nor Bangladesh were consistent enough to make most of our slips.

Our excuses were more of less self-inflicted, players tired because we picked most of the Test XI after a tough tour Injuries are inevitable as well if you do that. It reminds me of some Premiership clubs that bemoan injuries and a small squad, well do something about it then You keep picking your best players week in, week out, they will be tired and get injured

Exactly.

 

[Papa_Smurf]

The Long Handle | Cricket Blogs | ESPN Cricinfo

Thursday, May 5th
What a splendid idea! Three captains! Everyone agrees that having a captain is a good thing. Far better, for example, than not having a captain. So three captains must be three times as good! And England have added a nice touch, ranking their captains based on the calibre of their private school. Extensive analysis reveals that their innovative three-headed skipper strategy will have the following outcome:

1. After a poor series against India and having relinquished two-thirds of his power, Andrew Strauss will be under intense pressure to step down.
2. Deputy Alastair Cook will be unavailable, a broken man, having dropped himself from the one-day team due to a strike rate of 7.00.
3. Deputy deputy, Stuart Broad, will be serving his third ban of the summer, this time for setting fire to the umpire’s shoes after a marginal wide call.
4. In the absence of anyone else, a fourth candidate will emerge, unite the three formats and lead England into a glorious new age of arm-waving, top-of-the-range sunglasses and flashy defeats. All hail the second coming of KP!

Can't help but agree to this.

 

[Haarithan]

I am devasted on losing T20 captaincy: Collingwood - The Times of India

Whilst he was an amazing leader , his batting form hit a pathetic low . Really feel sorry for him , was always a consistent workhorse in the England setup , guess he can as well announce his retirement now .