Ashes 2015 - Australia tour of England July/September 2015

ya this australia is nothing like that golden era aus, they do have chinks in all departments but the way they get back after losing is really outstanding. Its almost like they have a clean slate after a defeat and get back up.

I think the trouble for England is that after this game there is a feeling that this is the 'real' Aus side, and what happened in Cardiff was an aberration.

If that is correct and this is the 'real' Aus, then Eng will struggle against them, and find it hard to win. That is the real question facing the two sides after this result.
 
England captain Alastair Cook: "To not back up our win at Cardiff is incredibly frustrating. Credit to Australia, they put us under pressure and we weren't able to deal with it. We didn't bowl with the same discipline and control. Over the last few games, we have been three down for 40-odd and that is an area of concern.

"We have to take this on the chin. Now it's about the character we need to show to bounce back. We came up short this week. I don't think it's about where people bat, it's down to the players, they just have to get stuck in. You've seen over the last eight days that the side which gets on top stays on top. I want a good, old English wicket at Edgbaston."

There you go, I knew it was just about character......

to be fair, what else do you expect him to say?
 
My line up for Edgbaston:

1. Lyth
2. Cook
3. Hales
4. Root
5. KP/Bairstow/Taylor (In order of preference)
6. Stokes
7. Buttler
8. Wood
9. Broad
10. Anderson
11. Rashid[DOUBLEPOST=1437324536][/DOUBLEPOST]
to be fair, what else do you expect him to say?

We were crap, no excuses, but we are gonna fix things and we will make changes...
 
England couldn't bowl out Aus in either innings and there in lies the problem. The best shot England have of taking 20 wickets is to give Anderson the pitch he likes, and that is basically a green garden pitch. On this one he went wicketless, and England need to play more to his strengths.

Anderson in many ways reminds me of Anil Kumble. When the pitch was not to Kumble's liking he would struggle, but you give him a pitch with turn and cracks, Kumble could and would run through any side in the world. In conditions that favored spin bowling there was no bowler better than Kumble not Warne not Murali.

With Anderson its a similar story. He struggles and looks ordinary on pitches that aren't tailor made to his strengths, but once you give him conditions that he thrives in, he will run through most bating line ups of the world.

Like Kumble, Anderson is the best bowler in the world by a distance when the pitch favors his kind of bowling. You give Kumble a pitch with turn and cracks, and he would outbowl any spinner in the world on that wicket. Similarly you give Anderson a pitch with grass and lateral movement, Anderson will outbowl any one of that surface.
 
England captain Alastair Cook: "To not back up our win at Cardiff is incredibly frustrating. Credit to Australia, they put us under pressure and we weren't able to deal with it. We didn't bowl with the same discipline and control. Over the last few games, we have been three down for 40-odd and that is an area of concern.

"We have to take this on the chin. Now it's about the character we need to show to bounce back. We came up short this week. I don't think it's about where people bat, it's down to the players, they just have to get stuck in. You've seen over the last eight days that the side which gets on top stays on top. I want a good, old English wicket at Edgbaston."

There you go, I knew it was just about character......

I hate the "creit to..." that gets churned out every time a team loses. Yes they played well but not even making a game of it is a disgrace.[DOUBLEPOST=1437325194][/DOUBLEPOST]
My line up for Edgbaston:

1. Lyth
2. Cook
3. Hales
4. Root
5. KP/Bairstow/Taylor (In order of preference)
6. Stokes
7. Buttler
8. Wood
9. Broad
10. Anderson
11. Rashid[DOUBLEPOST=1437324536][/DOUBLEPOST]

We were crap, no excuses, but we are gonna fix things and we will make changes...

No moeen?
 
I hate the "creit to..." that gets churned out every time a team loses. Yes they played well but not even making a game of it is a disgrace.[DOUBLEPOST=1437325194][/DOUBLEPOST]

No moeen?

In my opinion he isnt a good enough spinner to be the main spinner in a line up. The wickets he got this test were all results of people attacking him. He isnt good enough to make it as a batsmen and he isnt good enough to make it as a bowler so why bother having bits and pieces in your team. You cant get away with having a part time spinner as your main one...
 
In my opinion he isnt a good enough spinner to be the main spinner in a line up. The wickets he got this test were all results of people attacking him. He isnt good enough to make it as a batsmen and he isnt good enough to make it as a bowler so why bother having bits and pieces in your team. You cant get away with having a part time spinner as your main one...

I think that's harsh on Moeen. He bowled well in the 1st match and batted superbly. I don;t think we'll see anything better from Rashid with bat or ball.
 
I think that's harsh on Moeen. He bowled well in the 1st match and batted superbly. I don;t think we'll see anything better from Rashid with bat or ball.

Yea I hope I'm wrong but I just dont think he can hold up an end as a defensive spinner or threaten teams as an offensive spinner...
 
Give us decent pitches with something in it, get Bell out for Bairstow and put Ballance/Lyth on notice. I'm not too despondent yet but huge improvement needed
 
I think the trouble for England is that after this game there is a feeling that this is the 'real' Aus side, and what happened in Cardiff was an aberration.

If that is correct and this is the 'real' Aus, then Eng will struggle against them, and find it hard to win. That is the real question facing the two sides after this result.

ya and the key prob for eng is in the top order..there's only so much root or stokes can do.

 
England couldn't bowl out Aus in either innings and there in lies the problem. The best shot England have of taking 20 wickets is to give Anderson the pitch he likes, and that is basically a green garden pitch. On this one he went wicketless, and England need to play more to his strengths.

Anderson in many ways reminds me of Anil Kumble. When the pitch was not to Kumble's liking he would struggle, but you give him a pitch with turn and cracks, Kumble could and would run through any side in the world. In conditions that favored spin bowling there was no bowler better than Kumble not Warne not Murali.

With Anderson its a similar story. He struggles and looks ordinary on pitches that aren't tailor made to his strengths, but once you give him conditions that he thrives in, he will run through most bating line ups of the world.

Like Kumble, Anderson is the best bowler in the world by a distance when the pitch favors his kind of bowling. You give Kumble a pitch with turn and cracks, and he would outbowl any spinner in the world on that wicket. Similarly you give Anderson a pitch with grass and lateral movement, Anderson will outbowl any one of that surface.

People have off days.

Your opinion is one that I respect, but do not agree with. While you're correct that they were dominant when conditions suited them, I don't feel either was toothless when conditions didn't suit them. You are spot on about it in the first half of their careers. Not the second half. I've seen Jimmy bowl live in India and the previous trip where England beat India on rank turners I thought more than Swann and Panesar, he was the main weapon. I've only seen Steyn and McGrath apart from Anderson do that sort of stuff after the great Pakistani quicks.

As for Kumble, he also became a brilliant bowler in the second half of his career abroad. While the wickets were hard to come by in alien conditions, his economy was brilliant and he created a lot of pressure from one end.
 
I think English fans shouldn't panic. England had a shocker and they shouldn't make any knee-jerk actions. Right now, the wounds are fresh and I think tomorrow we will all be a bit logical.

At the moment, I feel Bell absolutely has to be dropped, as does Ballance. I'd give Lyth the series just to have something stable at the top. The guy's played four tests and has made a test hundred against a world class attack. Bairstow has to play and Root must bat 3. I think Moeen Ali has done a good job and he should bat at 7, with Buttler 6. England looked poor with the ball and they need another bowler as their batting is quite lengthy. What they really need to do is be a bit ballsy and play MJ positively. The more you allow him to dominate, the more he will decimate the confidence and self belief for the future.
 
People have off days.

Your opinion is one that I respect, but do not agree with. While you're correct that they were dominant when conditions suited them, I don't feel either was toothless when conditions didn't suit them. You are spot on about it in the first half of their careers. Not the second half. I've seen Jimmy bowl live in India and the previous trip where England beat India on rank turners I thought more than Swann and Panesar, he was the main weapon. I've only seen Steyn and McGrath apart from Anderson do that sort of stuff after the great Pakistani quicks.

As for Kumble, he also became a brilliant bowler in the second half of his career abroad. While the wickets were hard to come by in alien conditions, his economy was brilliant and he created a lot of pressure from one end.

Yes I remember the 2011 tour and Anderson did a fine job, but that tour apart, you pick out any other tour in his career and he has struggled on pitches that were not custom made to his ability.

The same holds true for Kumble too. Kumble in bits and pieces also had success abroad. Like in the 97 tour to WI he had two five wicket hauls, in the 1-1 draw away in Australia Kumble had 5 wicket hauls in 3 of the 4 tests. So its not like Kumble only performed in India and never when the conditions didn't seem custom made for him.

However these odd exceptions apart, Anderson and Kumble are very similar.

Largely ineffective when conditions don't favor them, but the best in the world in conditions that do work to their bowling.
 

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