Ashes Cricket 2013 General Discussion

[Pat]

I've just confirmed on the official forum that DRS won't be included in AC13 (some of these details are now starting to be released). I know some of you will be outraged about that, but here's the reasoning that eventually led us to that decision...



DRS is a system which allows verification of questionable decisions.

Now, because our umpires can make the right decision every time it's not really necessary to have it in the game. We did talk at length about putting it in, but decided that wrong decisions were too frustrating: if they CAN be avoided (which in the game they can!) then we should avoid them!

I see it the same as the "sledging" system we've talked about in the past: it's certainly an element in real cricket, but is it one that really applies to a game? I think if there is sufficient reason to have it there, like if it is properly part of the game experience and makes sense to the player, then it's justified... But as it stands I don't think either add much to the gameplay and therefore are lower priorities for us.

I think I agree with Chief that DRS is pretty low in the priority list for a cricket game. It's certainly a nice-to-have feature and good selling point for marketing but IMO there is not a lot of value add to the game by having this implemented. As long as the core gameplay is good, I wouldn't mind such lesser features missing

 

[MuchMore]

Not sure what you mean by this: any decision for AC13 is a totally different ball game?

Ohh ignore it then. I (being a s/w dev myself) have this theory that AC13 game physics engine will certainly be similar to AC09 given the same devs are writing the code.

 

[Chief]

Also given you guys already have a 'confidence' mechanism in place, doesn't sledging make sense? May be low on priority list but still on the list.. right?

Yep: any "sledging" option would have extra effects on confidence, but then you'd need a whole system (probably using player attributes) to help determine what results it gave - Some players thrive on that stuff, whilst others don't deal with it so well...
It's a complex system and I'd want to get that bang right, for which reason it tends to slip down priority list (each feature is tagged by "value" versus "resource required" to determine priority, so something that's complex and desirable is generally a lower priority than something that is simple and equally desirable)...

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Ohh ignore it then. I (being a s/w dev myself) have this theory that AC13 game physics engine will certainly be similar to AC09 given the same devs are writing the code.

Ah. Well, same company yes, but quite a few different people involved. And also a completely different engine...

 

[Gurjot95]

I don't think I agree with DRS being not important part in gameplay. It infact adds realism to the game when we would be curious to know whether the umpire decision was correct or not. We'll need to use it very carefully and I don't think I need to mention about how a single decision can affect the whole result of the match and may even decide the tournament winner so DRS are very important if you have Umpires who make mistakes and they should. If we're playing the game with umpire making every single decision accurate, it would be boring and quite unrealistic. It adds the fun factor but also make user to think very carefully with his limiting options in tight situations. Any sports game with match officials depends largely on the decisions. I am not sure about others but I definitely don't want to play a match without feeling any tension/frustration about human errors. These are all part of cricket.

TBH, I won't really care about DRS if you guys can create Umpires who make mistakes occasionally but not some robot who is always perfect because that's how the cricket was played in the past too before the introduction of DRS.

 

[Chief]

I don't think I agree with DRS being not important part in gameplay. It infact adds realism to the game when we would be curious to know whether the umpire decision was correct or not. We'll need to use it very carefully and I don't think I need to mention about how a single decision can affect the whole result of the match and may even decide the tournament winner so DRS are very important if you have Umpires who make mistakes and they should. If we're playing the game with umpire making every single decision accurate, it would be boring and quite unrealistic. It adds the fun factor but also make user to think very carefully with his limiting options in tight situations. Any sports game with match officials depends largely on the decisions. I am not sure about others but I definitely don't want to play a match without feeling any tension/frustration about human errors. These are all part of cricket.

TBH, I won't really care about DRS if you guys can create Umpires who make mistakes occasionally but not some robot who is always perfect because that's how the cricket was played in the past too before the introduction of DRS.

I agree: But there's lots of complex systems underneath that would need implementing in order to make it a fully functional gameplay mechanic (including things like teaching the AI to judge decisions, giving umpires individual abilities of decision making etc).
As I've said before on various features, if they are not fully implemented then I'd rather use the resources on other areas of the game and only put them in when they really add something.

 

[barmyarmy]

Will there still be manual appeal?

 

[deepuparayil]

I've just confirmed on the official forum that DRS won't be included in AC13 (some of these details are now starting to be released). I know some of you will be outraged about that, but here's the reasoning that eventually led us to that decision...



DRS is a system which allows verification of questionable decisions.

Now, because our umpires can make the right decision every time it's not really necessary to have it in the game. We did talk at length about putting it in, but decided that wrong decisions were too frustrating: if they CAN be avoided (which in the game they can!) then we should avoid them!

I see it the same as the "sledging" system we've talked about in the past: it's certainly an element in real cricket, but is it one that really applies to a game? I think if there is sufficient reason to have it there, like if it is properly part of the game experience and makes sense to the player, then it's justified... But as it stands I don't think either add much to the gameplay and therefore are lower priorities for us.

Interest level decreased by 10%. Most of Chief's decisions are mainly about making more money from the game than the quality and authentic atmosphere of the game. His repeating words " We can't do it, because it too hard to code" really sounds lazy. I hope the game is good enough, but some of your statements clearly suggest another AC09 in the making in my opinion. It's sad that even after 13 or 14 years none of the developers with all this technological advancements can't reach the quality of BLC'99. It actually tells about the mindset of current developers. You need to put your heart in to cricket to produce such a game.

 

[Gone4aDuck]

On ic2010 i was once given out lbw when struck on the pad about 5 feet (i kid you not) wide of off stump. Wouldnt have minded being able to apeal that!!

 

[umosay]

Not a game breaking thing for me at all. Sure, it would be great to have - but I'm hoping this game becomes a franchise and all these things will be later added to a sequel. Get the fundamentals right first.

The fact they also have another game competing will hopefully lead to a bit of a rivalry which will push each game further in the future.

 

[79cricket]

I thought this would happen, i'm ok with it but now you have to make sure every LBW is perfect in the game, if not then you have failed in this area without DRS.
Like others have said, sometimes i got real bad LBW in ic2010 just like before DRS was put in real cricket. I just would not say it's a code problem chief because it does make you sound lazy, maybe put it in higher on the to do list for the next game just like having stats this time.

Things like this and tours,career should be long term ideas put in the next game or the same disappointment will happen for future games.

In the end i will buy any cricket game you guys or others release and we understand you can not have everything we require but somethings are a must.

This new engine, can you tell us anything about it yet, where did it come from.
Has it been used in other games before, what advantages does it have over say ic2010 engine.

 

[MattW]

Interest level decreased by 10%. Most of Chief's decisions are mainly about making more money from the game than the quality and authentic atmosphere of the game. His repeating words " We can't do it, because it too hard to code" really sounds lazy. I hope the game is good enough, but some of your statements clearly suggest another AC09 in the making in my opinion. It's sad that even after 13 or 14 years none of the developers with all this technological advancements can't reach the quality of BLC'99. It actually tells about the mindset of current developers. You need to put your heart in to cricket to produce such a game.

The problem is that a DRS system requires making a part of the game deliberately worse in order to add a feature - you have to make it so that some amount of the time the umpire gets decisions wrong. It's one of those features you'd really need to perfect or it would be a horrible place for bugs and frustration.

I would have liked to have seen it in place for LBWs, becuase that's an area of dismissals where I don't think it's too hard to implement imperfect decisions without really hurting gameplay (having to second guess the catching animations on the other hand would be very annoying) - but I suppose DRS comes now as being assumed to be the whole set of dismissals and technology, so implementing just the one would be different than what people would expect from a DRS mode.

I suppose another thing to add is that even if all the decisions are 'perfect', it still relies on there being enough animations to perfectly recreate all possible outcomes - I imagine that the majority of the discrepency in previous games is simply where the engine figuring out what happened to decide if it is out or not didn't see the collisions the way that they end up being visually. Likewise unless you perfect the animation, collision and sound of the game, then you'd still have decisions that fall in the gap between what can be recreated.

All that said, I'm sure considering the features promised, Big Ant's game will either vindicate design decisions made for AC13, or show them to be problems that could have been overcome. I think we will see a mix of both.

 

[Chief]

Interest level decreased by 10%. Most of Chief's decisions are mainly about making more money from the game than the quality and authentic atmosphere of the game. His repeating words " We can't do it, because it too hard to code" really sounds lazy. I hope the game is good enough, but some of your statements clearly suggest another AC09 in the making in my opinion. It's sad that even after 13 or 14 years none of the developers with all this technological advancements can't reach the quality of BLC'99. It actually tells about the mindset of current developers. You need to put your heart in to cricket to produce such a game.

1) I have no stake in how much money the game makes. My only aim is to make enough money back so that I can justify extending the franchise, and I achieve this by making the very best game I can with the budget.
2) I never said that we couldn't do things because they were too hard to code. I said that we prioritise features according to their value versus how much time and money it would take to implement them well.
3) Your last sentence (actually 2 sentences) make me very sad indeed. You're entitled to your opinion of course... but for the record *I* think you're bang wrong.

 

[deepuparayil]

1)
3) Your last sentence (actually 2 sentences) make me very sad indeed. You're entitled to your opinion of course... but for the record *I* think you're bang wrong.

I'm sadder than you about the fact that it's been 14 years since BLC'99 and still nothing on it's level yet. I sincerely hope I was wrong there. Best of luck.

 

[79cricket]

I'm sadder than you about the fact that it's been 14 years since BLC'99 and still nothing on it's level yet. I sincerely hope I was wrong there. Best of luck.

Settle down dude, yes BLC 99 was the bomb but we have not played or seen this or bigant's game yet so please calm down.
Maybe chief can tell us something new to change the supject a little, like others have said, manual appeal, 3rd person view in from ic2010 but better.

 

[Dutch]

Everyone is talking about thisism and thatism, drsism and iplism and realism and blic99ism......all we are saying.....is give the game a chance.....all we are saying .....is give the game a chance..........