Ashes Cricket General Discussion

[blockerdave]

So disappointing to read this ......

It should be obvious to everyone without my post.

@WealeyH videos in that beta thread pre release and the praise and excitement we testers had was genuine and not embellished. My ps4 videos in the week before release included a lot of live stream - the sort of issues cropping up now would have been glaringly apparent in live stream. The game was so good at that stage.

for some reason, 2 days after release they pushed out an untested patch that introduced a bug stopping people getting wickets, so they rushed out a second patch next day.

it was immediately clear this patch did not fix the main issue that was trying to be fixed - the stumping bug - and in fact made it worse. Alongside that it clearly had a detrimental impact on game play. What should have happened was a roll back to the release version.

instead we got a month hiatus and then a patch of really limited ambition, that didn't address or even attempt to address any of the issues introduced.

as a case study in squandering momentum, enthusiasm and good will you couldn't ask for better.

 

[blockerdave]

**Long post warning**



It's a shame to hear that but equally not that surprising, these things happen with games. I get the impression the shorter forms of the game were not as rigourously tested during beta as test match and maybe trying to make improvements to them has had a knock on effect? There's bound to be things that pop up that just simply didn't happen or got missed until a larger player base started playing. I just bowled 167 overs, how that experience be unique for everyone without there being the odd bug or eye brow raising moment? I really thinkg anyone that expects otherwise needs to lower their expectations. What I look for is not a perfect recreation of cricket but one that at least provides excitement and competitiveness.

That video is weird for several reasons - the fact that it isn't out only being a small one to me. That there's no review and Bairstow's hurried movements are worse to me. I can accept some of the more weird looking catches, like @Mondy mentioned, because I think they must be a case of animations not quite being able to recreate the situation that is happening. I always go from the position of: does that feel like a genuine dismissal even if it looks a bit off? That was why the bat pad smash was so problematic. It looked bad and felt cheap. Although I did one get one bat pad smash in ths match, btw, it too completely ruined DBC 17 test matches for me.

It's weird having the AI score 602 against you, I think on '17 they scored 250-300 once, every other time I got a collapse from 20 overs onwards usually accompained by half a dozen bat pad smashes. So, I appreciate the fact they are stronger and grinding out in the field is realistic, if horrible. The issues are that there was barely a mistake. Thinking about Cook's 200 the other day he was dropped twice, ignoring the fact I've seen one drop in the game since I started playing, it would be good to at least feel like chances are there. Playing with fully assisted fielding I'd get so pissed off if there was a drop but that's cricket.

And I think confidence is set too high. It seems like if player faces 30-50 balls, not matter how well they did they come out batting with little problem in a second innings. The balance with bowlers seems off as well. I had Cummins take a wicket with first ball against me and his confidence didn't go to green until he got a second wicket with his fourth ball. Starc and Hazlewood both finished their first spell before they were 'green' confident (which could be fine) and Mitch Marsh was fully confident (going off the colours) after about two overs. A consitent progression is good but I think it should be far more erratic at the start of an innings or spell. I don't know if it's changed, other than you get the colours instead of a number, but going off that colour coded system I'd prefer to see:

Red - Not confident/completely vulnerable
Orange - Little confidence/unsettled
Amber - Start of an innings or bowling spell/getting settled
Light Green - Quite confident and almost settled
Full Green - Confident and Settled

Maybe throw in a system to that means for a couple of balls a batsman/bowler can be completely unsettled or completely confident, after an edge or getting by a bouncer. They can go from full green to a 'pulsing red' (a subtle flash or something) to indicate they are vulnerable and temporarily at risk so you can better target them or a 'pulsing green' to show they are on high and you might want to be more cautious. Depending on the mentality you might get different reactions, a player going into their shell or getting out from trying another big shot. The same could apply to bowlers after they get a wicket, bowl a couple of beauties or get smashed for a couple of boundaries. They could potentially help with bowling changes or selections from the AI - less likely to bowl a player in the red or take off a player who is 'pulsing red'. As it is, even if you completely hammer a player they'll come back on at some point in the rotation. The AI should bring on a Smith or a Malan if it reaches that point where a fourth/ffith bowler having a bad game is perhaps too much of a risk not just keep rotating the main bowlers regardless of how they've done.

i think @grkrama tested limited overs / t20 a lot.

in terms of what you say about long innings and lack of mistakes, this is something we have talked about ad nauseum in beta. "ooh moments" we call them... we want to play test matches and accept that can mean long hard slogs bowling but that makes it important that there's enough oooh moments - beating the bat, edges in space etc. - to make us feel we are in the game. They are also a great way to communicate when the bowler is on top - in bowler friendly conditions again it shouldn't be 5 balls middled and the 6th edged, but the "ooh" moments that make us feel we are all over the batsman and a wicket is coming. Maybe it comes, maybe it doesn't - the batsman toughs it out the ball stops swinging and we've missed our moment - that's cricket and what we are all after.

one of my live streams has a perfect example of this - for a couple of overs I'm bowling as Woakes and I'm all over Lyon getting him groping outside off stump and he is looking uncomfortable. At last i get the perfect one moving just past the edge and removing off stump. You couldn't get a better more realistic passage of play and tailender dismissal. no prizes for guessing that was in the release build!

on return from Christmas break BA need to roll back to release build and plot a way forward.

 

[wasteyouryouth]

i think @grkrama tested limited overs / t20 a lot.

in terms of what you say about long innings and lack of mistakes, this is something we have talked about ad nauseum in beta. "ooh moments" we call them... we want to play test matches and accept that can mean long hard slogs bowling but that makes it important that there's enough oooh moments - beating the bat, edges in space etc. - to make us feel we are in the game. They are also a great way to communicate when the bowler is on top - in bowler friendly conditions again it shouldn't be 5 balls middled and the 6th edged, but the "ooh" moments that make us feel we are all over the batsman and a wicket is coming. Maybe it comes, maybe it doesn't - the batsman toughs it out the ball stops swinging and we've missed our moment - that's cricket and what we are all after.

one of my live streams has a perfect example of this - for a couple of overs I'm bowling as Woakes and I'm all over Lyon getting him groping outside off stump and he is looking uncomfortable. At last i get the perfect one moving just past the edge and removing off stump. You couldn't get a better more realistic passage of play and tailender dismissal. no prizes for guessing that was in the release build!

on return from Christmas break BA need to roll back to release build and plot a way forward.

Yeah, at the moment there are a lot 'Oh...' moments where they just get out seemingly at random rather than it feeling like you've done much to contribute to it. Had a couple of 'oooh moments', getting a lovely bowled with Broad and Malan getting a wicket after 50 overs of nothing - that was probably relief though more than excitement. If the pitch or ball isn't doing much I want to feel like I can force the game a little to create pressure. Even when I keep it tight and restrict the run rate they'll just clobber a six. I wouldn't want a case where you bowl four bouncers and immediately get a wicket but maybe it's that case where if you'd bowled one more you might have, but you didn't bowl it and you'll never know.

I kind of think BA should just go with the tactic they did last year with 17 and just pump out a few regular patches for whichever system is easiest with a list of areas they want feedback on. There's only so much the small group of beta testers can do before it just seems to make sense to expand it. The game progressed so much and so quickly when they did that last year. From day to day you could see things being implemented or improved based on feedback. Limited overs went from enjoyable but flawed to, if not a perfect recreation, a lot more of a balanced contest thanks to simply getting field settings more realistic.

 

[Gamer Pradosh]

on return from Christmas break BA need to roll back to release build and plot a way forward.

This^^^

 

[blockerdave]

Yeah, at the moment there are a lot 'Oh...' moments where they just get out seemingly at random rather than it feeling like you've done much to contribute to it. Had a couple of 'oooh moments', getting a lovely bowled with Broad and Malan getting a wicket after 50 overs of nothing - that was probably relief though more than excitement. If the pitch or ball isn't doing much I want to feel like I can force the game a little to create pressure. Even when I keep it tight and restrict the run rate they'll just clobber a six. I wouldn't want a case where you bowl four bouncers and immediately get a wicket but maybe it's that case where if you'd bowled one more you might have, but you didn't bowl it and you'll never know.

I kind of think BA should just go with the tactic they did last year with 17 and just pump out a few regular patches for whichever system is easiest with a list of areas they want feedback on. There's only so much the small group of beta testers can do before it just seems to make sense to expand it. The game progressed so much and so quickly when they did that last year. From day to day you could see things being implemented or improved based on feedback. Limited overs went from enjoyable but flawed to, if not a perfect recreation, a lot more of a balanced contest thanks to simply getting field settings more realistic.

sometimes a wicket out of nowhere is fine, it does happen. Joe Root is a prime example of a batsmen who looks set and then gets out by giving his wicket away out of nothing. but when we are playing a game these things happen out of nowhere.

the most annoying thing about all 3 games is the feeling that there are the moments when the game will give you a wicket regardless - that something in the game is saying: this batsman is getting out now. i have had it so many times: a prime example being the wicket i got "caught off the pad" yesterday: it was caught at slip. knowing what had happened i decided not to appeal, but remarkably the game decided to have the fielders celebrate and the wicket fall anyway. similarly, i've had on multiple occasions in dbc17 and ashes too, the catching mini-game come up for a cheap wicket in the infield, so i've dropped it deliberately and the very next ball the batsman has smashed it to another fielder, there's been no minigame they've just caught it and the batsman is out. and what i've never understood is why, if you have this (frankly, crap) mechanic in the game where the batsman is getting out no matter, why wouldn't you force an lbw, bowled or edge - a wicket the bowler is going to be happy with - rather than that cheap horrible wicket everyone has complained about from day 1 of dbc14?

 

[karanmadan]

so I managed to create secondary line ups for the BBL based on the current BBL going on. when playing as human I can change both line ups to what I want. how do you get the AI to pick the line up that I want when I'm simulating matches in a tournament?

 

[Deleted member 46200]

Dismissals like this just simply didn't exist in the beta, or in the release build. i've had a couple myself in the latest build.

Everything that has happened to this game post-release has been a travesty.

This is a strange one as it would be hoped this would be picked up during testing but if not evident then obviously can't be rectified prior to release. However, picked up now and hope it is looked into. Great thing about the forum is a community working together to make our 'vice' better.[DOUBLEPOST=1514885192][/DOUBLEPOST]

Are big ant working on a patch currently? or are they still on holidays

A month in Barbados spending your hard earned cash on beer and fast food... Really... ? No they'll be working on it.

 

[sheharyar]

i think @grkrama tested limited overs / t20 a lot.

in terms of what you say about long innings and lack of mistakes, this is something we have talked about ad nauseum in beta. "ooh moments" we call them... we want to play test matches and accept that can mean long hard slogs bowling but that makes it important that there's enough oooh moments - beating the bat, edges in space etc. - to make us feel we are in the game. They are also a great way to communicate when the bowler is on top - in bowler friendly conditions again it shouldn't be 5 balls middled and the 6th edged, but the "ooh" moments that make us feel we are all over the batsman and a wicket is coming. Maybe it comes, maybe it doesn't - the batsman toughs it out the ball stops swinging and we've missed our moment - that's cricket and what we are all after.

one of my live streams has a perfect example of this - for a couple of overs I'm bowling as Woakes and I'm all over Lyon getting him groping outside off stump and he is looking uncomfortable. At last i get the perfect one moving just past the edge and removing off stump. You couldn't get a better more realistic passage of play and tailender dismissal. no prizes for guessing that was in the release build!

on return from Christmas break BA need to roll back to release build and plot a way forward.

I agree as the things I have heard about the beta version it would be great if we can get the game in the same form and then carry on from there. I dont know why but something seems missing in the game play. Game created by big ant has lots of potential, and I would like it to achieve that and thats the reason I bought the game on the first day of steam release.

 

[blockerdave]

I agree as the things I have heard about the beta version it would be great if we can get the game in the same form and then carry on from there. I dont know why but something seems missing in the game play. Game created by big ant has lots of potential, and I would like it to achieve that and thats the reason I bought the game on the first day of steam release.

we had it at console release, and BA wiped it out 2 days later.

 

[blockerdave]

This is a strange one as it would be hoped this would be picked up during testing but if not evident then obviously can't be rectified prior to release. However, picked up now and hope it is looked into. Great thing about the forum is a community working together to make our 'vice' better.[DOUBLEPOST=1514885192][/DOUBLEPOST]
A month in Barbados spending your hard earned cash on beer and fast food... Really... ? No they'll be working on it.

the problem is that the initial post release patches had no testing

 

[wasteyouryouth]

sometimes a wicket out of nowhere is fine, it does happen. Joe Root is a prime example of a batsmen who looks set and then gets out by giving his wicket away out of nothing. but when we are playing a game these things happen out of nowhere.

the most annoying thing about all 3 games is the feeling that there are the moments when the game will give you a wicket regardless - that something in the game is saying: this batsman is getting out now. i have had it so many times: a prime example being the wicket i got "caught off the pad" yesterday: it was caught at slip. knowing what had happened i decided not to appeal, but remarkably the game decided to have the fielders celebrate and the wicket fall anyway. similarly, i've had on multiple occasions in dbc17 and ashes too, the catching mini-game come up for a cheap wicket in the infield, so i've dropped it deliberately and the very next ball the batsman has smashed it to another fielder, there's been no minigame they've just caught it and the batsman is out. and what i've never understood is why, if you have this (frankly, crap) mechanic in the game where the batsman is getting out no matter, why wouldn't you force an lbw, bowled or edge - a wicket the bowler is going to be happy with - rather than that cheap horrible wicket everyone has complained about from day 1 of dbc14?

Know what you mean. If a batsman simply has to get out give us something to make us feel good about it.

One thing I would say, having played with the mentalities for the Australia batsman and bowlers it seemed a lot more realistic. With the exception of conservative Bancroft turning into Sehwag in the second innings they scored at a realistic rate if not always playing realistic shots. Khawaja 128 (239), Smith 132 (222), Mitch Marsh 124 (253) - all three were set to Balanced, they would mostly wait for the bad balls. The bowlers in particular felt more like their real self. Starc as Balanced pitched it up and also tried shorter deliveires, Hazlewood as Precise bowled a fairly decent line and length, Cummins as a Brute bowled more shorter deliveries. Lyon on conservative terrorised me, but for three games running he always cause me problems and I'm just bad at playing spin on the game.

 

[Deleted member 46200]

the problem is that the initial post release patches had no testing

Just read your post regarding this so I guess they were reacting to pressure... ? But then they would never pander the moaners... ?

 

[Mitchell]

This is a strange one as it would be hoped this would be picked up during testing but if not evident then obviously can't be rectified prior to release. However, picked up now and hope it is looked into. Great thing about the forum is a community working together to make our 'vice' better.[DOUBLEPOST=1514885192][/DOUBLEPOST]
A month in Barbados spending your hard earned cash on beer and fast food... Really... ? No they'll be working on it.

Well last year they had a holiday they deserve a break

 

[Deleted member 46200]

Well last year they had a holiday they deserve a break

Too true but as blocker said they released some in test patches so back to square one which in the grand scheme of things and my notice understanding of the industry sounds good.

 

[A55MAN]

Sounds like the general consensus is the game was better in the release build ?

I used to see someone from Big Ant reply a lot more often than they seem to do now.
I have read a late January patch. That just people hoping or has their been some word on that ?
Because some things like the One Day AI batting and the AI field placings, I'm surprised hasn't been fixed pretty quick.