Australia test, ODI, T20 teams discussion thread

sifter132

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I like the idea of this - just been talking about it in the specialisation vs rotation thread. I think having a specific format to prepare for would help players improve their skills, and keep them fresh.

Although, I will add that 2 new balls in ODIs now means that you can bowl more attackingly in the first 10-20 overs. I think we've seen a good example from McKay in these last 2 games, he's had helpful conditions to use, but he couldn't capitalise like a Siddle might have, because he isn't used to bowling that attacking length. I foresee more guys doing both Tests and ODIs, and using T20s to groom death bowlers.

So as your 3 pace bowlers you might have 2 of your wicket taking Test bowlers, to really make the most of those early overs, and 1 specialist limited overs guy/death bowler.
 

Sedition

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As talented as Pattinson is, it's not enough if he can't make it through a test without getting injured. Maybe it's jut a bad run, but frankly I'm getting sick of him constantly walking into the side and pulling up injured. Keep him in ODIs and maybe around the test squad on tours as cover if there's no shield games going on for another year or two imo.
 

War

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I like the idea of this - just been talking about it in the specialisation vs rotation thread. I think having a specific format to prepare for would help players improve their skills, and keep them fresh.

Although, I will add that 2 new balls in ODIs now means that you can bowl more attackingly in the first 10-20 overs. I think we've seen a good example from McKay in these last 2 games, he's had helpful conditions to use, but he couldn't capitalise like a Siddle might have, because he isn't used to bowling that attacking length. I foresee more guys doing both Tests and ODIs, and using T20s to groom death bowlers.

So as your 3 pace bowlers you might have 2 of your wicket taking Test bowlers, to really make the most of those early overs, and 1 specialist limited overs guy/death bowler.

Ye solid idea.

Another big decision i hope bears fruit is a reintroduction of brad hodge into the test setup once he indeed does come back & play for victoria in the remaining sheild matches - Australia Cricket News: Brad Hodge ponders Ashes bid | ESPN Cricinfo
 

War

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Australia Cricket News: Shane Warne presents alternate reality | ESPN Cricinfo

Excluding his hard line reasoning about player rotations which doesn't make too much sense, i think the other suggestions warne made are fairly solid. I for one have always thought someone like mark taylor should come out the com box & let his once great captaincy skills be more closely associated with the development of the national team.
 

Aislabie

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I like the idea of this - just been talking about it in the specialisation vs rotation thread. I think having a specific format to prepare for would help players improve their skills, and keep them fresh.

Moving on with this idea, do you really need specialist batsmen past number six in limited overs? If seven and eight are sill competent, you should be able to get the right balance with five specialist bowlers.

Working with this, and the specialisation idea, how does this look?

David Warner
Matthew Wade :wk:
Phillip Hughes
Michael Clarke :c:
George Bailey
David Hussey
Mitchell Johnson :bwl:
Mitchell Starc :bwl:
Xavier Doherty :bwl:
Kane Richardson :bwl:
Clint McKay :bwl:

Dave Hussey could contribute some overs when Notch loses his control of line and length, and you need Matt Wade at the top of the order because he's lousy against spin.
 
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Aalay

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David Warner
Matthew Wade :wk:
Phillip Hughes
Michael Clarke :c:
George Bailey
David Hussey
Mitchell Johnson :bwl:
Mitchell Starc :bwl:
Xavier Doherty :bwl:
Kane Williamson :bwl:
Clint McKay :bwl:

I thought Kane was fine playing with New Zealand.
 

Sedition

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Haha, yeah. I'd never heard of Kane Richardson when he made his Kiwi-like debut a couple of weeks ago, was sure he was some random NZ'er.
 

Aislabie

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I thought Kane was fine playing with New Zealand.
:spy
Haha, yeah. I'd never heard of Kane Richardson when he made his Kiwi-like debut a couple of weeks ago, was sure he was some random NZ'er.
I'd noticed him doing well in a couple of games, but nothing worthy of an ODI cap and 700k contract. Still, after that debut, he deserves a chance
 

War

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The Shane Warne Manifesto

I see Shane Warne is making his feelings known about the state of aussie cricket. Not in full agreement of all of his points, but it continues to trend of the concern many fans have with the direction the team is going in all formats.

Shane Warne Official Website - My News - Where is Australian cricket at? Part 1


quote said:
Where is Australian cricket at? Part 1
Published by Shane Warne

As an emotional, passionate and Australian cricket team supporter (and player) for the best part of 20 years (a proud one too) I, like many others am frustrated on many levels at present. The next 12 months is the biggest 12 months of cricket for the Australian cricket team in a long, long time. If we do nothing now, we will be where we were 30 years ago. There needs to be urgent action and a new strategy / plan put in place.



The current set up is not working, as the results are showing! What are our world rankings in all forms?

So?

Selecting of teams

This is a vey tough gig as everyone in Australia thinks they can pick the best team, it?s a subject that?s discussed in boardrooms, pubs, schools and so on...


In my view, selecting a player is not based solely on statistics and averages, it can be used as a guide sure, but the objective of a Selector is to look at when players get their runs and wickets, which shows character and a good temperament when under pressure, along with their talent. Then they can trust themselves when making the next step into international cricket. There are many other ingredients that go into selecting a player, but this should be the basis of being selected.

A simple criteria is pick your best team and stick with it in all forms, then the players get used playing together and being with one another on tour, you get to know the person, too much chopping and changing leads to insecurity, players then start to look out for themselves and over their shoulder, this breeds selfishness. It?s also why rotation and resting players will never work. I believe the players should be united, take ownership of this, it?s a very powerful and strong message to send to CA if the players message is ?I do not want to be rested or rotated I want to play every game, if I don?t perform drop me?. If this decision comes from the players then CA have to respect that and follow suit on selection accordingly, this will then mean someone is accountable. In any sport once you have proven to yourself that you are good enough to play at the top level, you know if you perform you will be picked for the next game, that?s when you play at your best as you have confidence and are more relaxed. The team should be selected first, not the captain, the captain will be chosen from the team selected.

We have the best batsmen / captain in world cricket at the moment in Michael Clarke and the spine of a good team with Warner, Watson, Wade, Siddle and Lyon, the rest of the spots are up for grabs in my opinion. Opportunities for players now are there for the taking.

The coach should not be a selector as he should be a confidante for the players, the captain should be though. I could go on here for a while?.

So, to my dream team, I could be completely wrong and barking up the wrong tree, but in my opinion if the following people were to fill these roles, then Australian cricket would be in good hands and a great chance of getting back to number 1, as I believe the talent is there in domestic cricket - to have a great Australian team for now and for the future.

Selectors

Rod Marsh (Chairman)
Mark Waugh
Damian Martyn; and
Glenn McGrath

The people who I would put in charge of cricket if available and willing, along with the above selectors (you can give them any title you want) would be:

CEO of cricket or GM: Mark Taylor

Boss man, cricket supremo. The coach, captain and support staff are answerable to Tub. Tub is in charge of all things cricket. The reason why I would choose Mark is that he has an understanding from both sides and is a wonderful communicator as well as being very approachable and respected.

Coach: Stephen Fleming:

In my time Stephen was the best opposition Captain we played against and seeing what Stephen has done first hand re his coaching roles along with knowing him well personally, I believe he brings alot to the table, a calmness, an intelligent understanding of the game and a very good cricket brain. He?s a good communicator too as well as a good leader of men.

Assistant Coach: Darren ? Boof ? Lehmann:

Boof understands the game as good as anyone and has a great outlook on the game, he?s a good balance of old school and what the needs are of the current day player.

Batting Coach?s: Mike Hussey / Michael Bevan:

Both respected players and grasp all forms of the game. These guys would be around the team when needed, depending on which form of the game is being played. The coach would liaise with both and give them clarity on when they are required and to be around the group.

Bowling Coaches: Merv Hughes / Bruce Reid:

Both have been wonderful players and understand what works and what doesn?t, they also were very clever bowlers and have experience, both have a great attitude and a passion for the game too.

Consultant: Ian Chappell:

Be on call as a sounding board for any player to talk to at anytime and be around the group when needed. Chaps has been the biggest influence on my cricketing career and understands the game and people. He?s understanding of the game is second to none. He was a great all-round cricketer and also the best Captain to have ever played the game from any country.

All the above people are cricket people, not rugby, tennis or from any other sporting code. They all understand the game of cricket, they have lived and breathed the game for a long time and most importantly have the best interests of Australian cricket at heart, along with being super passionate and above all, they just love the game.

Summary

Cricket is a simple game; sure it has room and a place for scientific research and current technology, which can help learn about an opponent, but not instead of using your cricket brain, together they can work hand in hand. Technology can help in recovery, but so can sleep and a common sense approach to recovery.


You cannot re-invent the wheel in cricket, if a player wants to become a better slip fielder, catch more balls, want to get better at bowling a Yorker ? practice bowling and hitting a target (Malinga and a shoe) and so on.

It?s time to go back to basics. Too many people are justifying their existence.
I will be discussing these points and Part 2 with James Sutherland in the next week.

I hope this piece opens the floodgates for discussion and a positive outcome. I?m no guru, just a concerned ex cricketer who loves Australian cricket and is passionate about the white floppy hat!




Shane Warne Official Website - My News - Where is Australian Cricket at? Part 2

quote said:
Where is Australian Cricket at? Part 2
Published by Shane Warne

?..Part 2

Thankyou for your feedback from part 1

I know not everyone agreed with me, which is cool. The reason for me writing these articles is to hopefully create debate and discussion.

So, I asked myself the question?? Is the Australian cricket family happy??

The answer is: NO; no-one is happy. The fans, players, broadcasters, sponsors, CA etcetera.

So I went to the Cricket Australia website and looked at their mission statement and it read?

?The strategy has five pillars that are critical to achieve the vision to be Australia's favourite sport:?


1. Put fans first;
2. Produce the best teams, players and officials in the world;
3. Increase participation substantially and inspire the next generation of players and fans;
4. Provide world-class leadership and management and unify Australian Cricket;
5. Grow investment in the game.


The above mission statement sounds wonderful and is great, but in my opinion it hasn?t been delivered and results at the end of the day are what count, along with the future of the game. When we were number 1 there weren?t mission statements flying around, but we got the selection process right and the best 11 were selected for every game. Example: Glenn McGrath didn?t want to be rotated or rested, he wanted to play every game, and we all did.

It?s simple, select your best 11 for each form of the game, not the same 11 but your best available team at all times.

So saying that, my teams would be as follows:


20/20 team
(Watson will be fit when the next 20/20 is played.)

1. Finch
2. Warner
3. Marsh S
4. Watson
5. Maxwell
6. Wade (C)
7. Faulkner
8. Coulter-Nile
9. Starc
10. McKay
11. Doherty


12. Beer
13. Cutting
14. Henriques or M Marsh when fit.
15. M Johnson


1-day team
(Watson comes back in when fit for whatever batsman is not performing)

1. Finch
2. Warner
3. Marsh S
4. Clarke (C)
5. Bailey
6. Wade
7. Maxwell (Floater)
8. Faulkner
9. Coulter-Nile
10. Starc
11. McKay


12. Hauritz
13. Henriques
14. Marsh M
15. M Johnson



Test team
(My squad of 18 players. Watson will be fit when the next test is played)

1. Warner
2. Watson
3. Marsh S
4. Clarke (C)
5. Ferguson
6. Wade
7. Faulkner
8. Coulter-Nile
9. Siddle
10. Pattinson
11. Lyon


12. Hughes P
13. Maxwell
14. Starc
15. Khawaja
16. Harris R
17. Henriques
18. Jackson Bird

This is the sqad of players that I think can help us get back to Number 1 in the world.

1-day cricket

We have changed the rules/ laws too many times in this form of the game, everyone is confused. It is time to de-regulate 1 day cricket. No restrictions with the field, none, place the fielders anywhere you want, this will create so many options and the attacking captains and teams will win. The only law should be that no bowler can bowl more than 10 overs.

20/20

Increase the max per bowler to 5 overs not 4, so 4 bowlers can bowl 5 overs and each ground should be as big as possible.

Last thought for this article; no matter what form of the game is being played, the pitch must be a contest between bat and ball.

Still lots to talk through, like grass roots cricket, state of spin bowling, cricket academy and domestic cricket. Part 3 and 4 later this week?

Hope you enjoyed Part 2!
 

Slowcoach

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I think Warne's thoughts get far more credit than they deserve, you only have to see how he conducts himself on and off the field to know he is a fool.
They were right to never give him the captaincy.
 

sifter132

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That's the thing with opinions...everyone has one. If Warne thinks Coulter-Nile deserves a spot in all 3 formats for Australia - great! Just don't expect everyone to agree.
 

aussie1st

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We are starting to get some depth in our ODI batting with Ferguson going well against the English Lions. He should be in the number 6 spot but hard to drop Voges after what he did in his last match. Will be interesting seeing what they do with the lineup, keeping Hughes leaves Clarke at 4 and Bailey at 5 which probably suits both in particular Bailey.
 

sifter132

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As a Ferguson fan, I'd love to see him back in the Aussie side. He was really impressive back in 2009 (so long ago!).

Ideally I'd like to see Australia not need to use 1 of Warner, Watson or Hughes and let Clarke bat at #3 in ODIs. Warner in particular might be a guy who could be playing Shield cricket instead of ODIs to tighten up his game, or maybe Watson gives up ODIs so he can manage his bowling workload better. That way the selectors can use 4/5/6 as a way to test more middle order guys, which may help the Test team in the long run. A bit like Peter Forrest was tried last season. The Marsh bros, Henriques, Ferguson, Burns, S.Smith, Khawaja, Maxwell are all guys that could get a run while having Bailey and Voges as more experienced options.
 

aussie1st

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What would your lineup be putting that into practice?
I still feel Ferguson is the Hussey replacement we have been looking for and with Voges and Bailey going well we have a couple more that are similar. There is still the need to prepare for the WC so obviously I wouldn't be throwing in some A team not to mention the crap we will see in the media about it.
 

sifter132

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Not sure :D I have a relatively different viewpoint anyway. I think 3 of your Test top 4 should be in your ODI top 4 (play those 2 new balls as well as possible), together with one pinch-hitter/aggressor eg. Glenn Maxwell (Henriques or Wade could do it too). Just someone who plays with a bit of abandon and will upset the bowler's line and length. Guys like Warner seem to be too concerned with the need to get a big score, so get caught between playing their shots and surviving. That's why I say promote a guy who will DEFINITELY have no problem playing shots. So my ODI top 4 would probably be: Warner, Maxwell/Henriques, Hughes, Clarke. Don't think Watson gets back if he's not going to bowl regularly. He's certainly a good enough ODI batsman and I'd definitely pick him in a World Cup squad, but I'd just rather develop Warner and Hughes in the meantime, and other young middle guys like Ferguson. I'd make Watson T20 captain instead, but that's another story...

Then after those 4 have Bailey, Ferguson and Wade. Voges would be the backup batsman in the squad, Shaun Marsh probably as well. Like you I thought Ferguson was the ideal future replacement for Hussey, but the downside for Ferguson is not so much his batting, but that he doesn't bowl, and if Clarke can't bowl for back troubles, then you'll be left with 5 bowlers only - the 4 specialists, plus Maxwell. If any one of them gets targeted their could be trouble. So Voges, or even Finch has the advantage there in selection as they can be serviceable 6th bowlers.
 

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