Australia test, ODI, T20 teams discussion thread

[War]

Well i think Dussey was his brothers replacement, before he was ridiculously dropped.

On Ferguson he certainly can be such a player, but i'm sort of disappointed that he hasn't kicked out to be seriously be talked up for a test place after all these years.

My idea of the best AUS ODI XI & squad currently probably is:

Watson
Warner
Hughes
Clarke
Bailey/Voges
Wade
Maxwell
Henriques
Faulkner
Starc
Harrs

Bailey/Voges
M Marsh
Johnson
McKay

 

[War]

Australia Cricket News: Shane Warne's spin on Australian slow bowling | ESPN Cricinfo

Ever since MacGill retired & Hogg proved not to be test quality circa 2008, i've always believed Australia attack should have simply focused on its only strong point. The fast bowlers.

AUS have wasted too many times picking spinners to international cricket like Lyon, Krejza, Doherty, Haurtiz, Beer who did not do well in first class cricket to be picked for test. Being horrifically dumb to consider picking White, Smith & Maxwell as spin bowling all-rounders as if they were the next Richie Benaud. Or lacked the knowledge of what makes a quality spinner at international test level, to notice than even though Dan Cullen, Bryce McGain & maybe even O'Keefe too may have had good first-class records they are not test standard.

If AUS took the simple approach of saying, unless a spinner dominated at first-class level like Colin Miller did in 1997/98 then he should not be considered for tests. Then all these cries for getting a spinner would not be an issue.

South Africa since readmission has yet to produce a stable test spinner, they always backed their quick bowlers & have generally always been among the top 2 test teams.

 

[War]

Australia's troubled tour : Michael Clarke's cultural decree | Cricket Features | India v Australia | ESPN Cricinfo

Reading this inside reporting here, then i must say i am slightly concerned about the atmosphere in the AUS dressing room.

Clarke is certainly the best tactical on-field captain since Mark Taylor. But now that Ponting & Hussey have left with all that experience, it seems behind close doors as their is a struggle.

One thing for sure he doesn't have that 'captain aura' that Taylor, S Waugh & Ponting.

This potential problem gives further credence for experienced players like Haddin, Bailey, Rogers being in the test team.

 

[Aislabie]

Written an article about the Test team

 

[sifter132]

Number crunching time!

With the robust discussions about Australia's batting quality of late, I've been through the first class batting stats for the last few summers in Australia to find who has done well, what trends might be emerging etc.
*I've categorised a season as "above average" if a batsman managed over 500 runs and a 40+ average.
*I've categorised a season as "good" if a batsman managed over 750 runs and a 50+ average.
I didn't bother to make an extra category above that, didn't see the need to separate the data any more. I can't see anyone in the Shield final that might change categories either. One final thing: it's first class numbers so it's not just Shield stats but will include Tests in Aus that summer and the odd match against a touring side.

*In the last 5 seasons there have been 21 'good' and another 43 'above average' seasons by batsmen.
*Compared to the 5 seasons before that? In 2003/04-2007/08 there were 39 'good' and another 58 'above average' seasons in those 5 summers. Already you can see a trend...
Note: the numbers are biased a bit by the 2003/04 season which had 15 'good' seasons by Aussie batsmen! Flat wickets that year? Or just good batting depth? Either way, even after taking out 2003/04 there were still approximately 50% more 'good' (and 'above average') seasons in 2004/05-2007/08 than there have been in the last 5 summers.

Going a bit deeper...here are the batsmen who have managed to have a 'good' summer in the last 5 seasons (750+ runs at 50+ average). 15 batsmen, 21 good summers.
3 PJ Hughes (2008/09-2009/10,2012/13)
2 MJ Clarke (2011/12-2012/13)
2 RT Ponting (2011/12-2012/13)
2 EJM Cowan (2009/10 & 2011/12)
2 M Klinger (2008/09-2009/10)
1 MEK Hussey (2012/13)
1 AJ Doolan (2012/13)
1 AC Voges (2011/12)
1 LM Davis (2011/12)
1 MJ Cosgrove (2010/11)
1 DJ Hussey (2009/10)
1 SPD Smith (2009/10)
1 BJ Hodge (2008/09)
1 CJL Rogers (2008/09)
1 ML Love (2008/09)
Particularly disappointing to me is that a mere 5 batsmen have had 2 or more 'good' summers in that time. Can we write off the guys with only one 'good' summer as flukes? You can certainly make the argument, especially if that's the only good year they've ever had.

Next list is for the batsmen who have managed 2 or more 'above average' seasons in the last 5 seasons (500+ runs at 40+ average). Note: these counts will include the 'good' seasons as well.
4 MJ Clarke (2008/09-2009/10, 2011/12-2012/13)
4 CJL Rogers (2008/09, 2009/10, 2011/12-2012/13)
3 MJ Cosgrove (2009/10-2010/11,2012/13)
3 MEK Hussey (2009/10-2010/11, 2012/13)
3 RT Ponting (2009/10, 2011/12-2012/13)
3 Usman Khawaja (2008/09-2010/11)
3 PJ Hughes (2008/09-2009/10, 2012/13)
3 M Klinger (2008/09-2009/10, 2011/12)
2 DA Warner (2011/12-2012/13)
2 RJ Quiney (2010/11-2011/12)
2 EJM Cowan (2009/10 & 2011/12)
2 GJ Bailey (2009/10 & 2011/12)
2 DJ Hussey (2008/09-2009/10)
2 MS Wade (2008/09-2009/10)
2 SM Katich (2008/09-2009/10)
Again, it's a disappointingly short list, considering 500 runs at 40 really isn't that special. You'd think more guys would have been able to do it twice in the last 5 years. Also disappointing is the ages of the guys on this list: 5 of these 15 guys are 35+ (Ponting, M.Hussey, Rogers, Katich, D.Hussey); another 5 are 30 somethings (Clarke, Klinger, Quiney, Cowan, Bailey). That leaves only 5 that still haven't hit 30 (Cosgrove, Khawaja, Hughes, Warner and Wade). I had theorised there would be a big talent hole between the 35+ group and the under 30s, but it seems there has been a general decline across all age groups

Make whatever conclusions you will! Just thought I'd share my findings...

 

[War]

^^

Good breakdown Sir Sifter. I was thinking about doing something similar for the past couple weeks, but i wasn't able ha.

But yea that sums up the current phase of Australian batting which clearly is the worst top 6 (even with Clarke in it) in the post WW2 era.

Young batsmen like Hughes, S Marsh, Ferguson, Cosgrove, Khawaja who we all thought would step up seamlessly over the last few years in to the test set-up, have hit some unimaginable stumbling blocks.

Losing Phil Jaques to injury, form & yorkshire when you l think back is also a massive blow. He also was supposed to be the long standing opener after Hayden/Langer left.


With regards to the just concluded shambolic India tour - AUS like most sub-continent teams have always struggled in India. So that was never an issue at least leading up the 1990s, because tours to india were so few, the place was like touring mars.

The great AUS team up to 2004 still were playing spin poorly during India tours in 98, 2001 & Sri Lanka 99.

But after the successful tours to India & SRI 2004, along with the many ODI series wins in India, i always expected AUS improvement vs spin to stay somewhere close to the 2004 standard even if other area's of the team became poor.

AUS lost in India 2008 & 2010 - but the overall batting strength didn't look woefully clueless as in the current series.

It was only last year AUS won a HARD ODI series in UAE facing Ajmal, Afridi, Rehman & Hafeez.

So basically the biggest disappointment for me is that AUS batting in this series is a horrible regression of AUS batsman-ship on turning pitches, back to the poor level of pre 1996. It is an insult to all the progress AUS batters have made to playing spin worldwide in the last 20 years.

 

[War]

Australia news : Ashes contenders miss out on CA contracts | Cricket News | Global | ESPN Cricinfo

Basic contract list except for Doherty. While i think Cowan debatable at best. Really what the selection see in Doherty is bit mind-boggling at the moment.

Struck for 25 in one over by Pollard in the T20 W-Cup semi-final. Poor ODI performances after the 2012 windies tour. And predicatably usless in tests in India. What more do they need to see to convince them he is not internaitonal quality???

With AUS strength being in fast bowling & the likes of Bird, Cutting, Coulter-nile around, giving Doherty a contract is simply ridiculous.

Cowan is acceptable but somehow i feel his usefulness to AUS will run out before the year is over. Probably would have given Khawaja a contract still, since he is still an important young bat for the future.

 

[angryangy]

The contract list is meant to follow selection policy, not set it; most of the time a player gets a contract for playing lots of games. With incrementals now, it's even less important.

 

[midgetwars]

NO Khawaja or Bird. Makes sense

 

[aussie1st]

Haven't really been too fussed over who they put in the contracts list since T20 came along. Basically they just reward the players that play at least 2 formats and particularly T20. The one surprise is Hilfy still having a contract given he only really is used for Test and he seems to be behind a few in the queue.

 

[sifter132]

The contract list is meant to follow selection policy, not set it; most of the time a player gets a contract for playing lots of games. With incrementals now, it's even less important.

Makes me wonder why they bother really. Why not just increase the match payments, but give every player of note a decent retainer based on their ability ie. halve the contracts, but double the match payments. It's silly that Mitchell Starc will get close to $1 million dollars (or so rumoured) just because he's moved up the contract ladder. It's only because there is no one else who's played as much - not because he's truly worth $1 million. Perhaps there should just be 2 levels: high level, only for the top few players in the sport to recognise their value, and the other for players with potential who haven't played many/any international matches and therefore have no money from cricket eg. Pat Cummins

I thought Dan Brettig's article on Cricinfo summed it up nicely (Australia Cricket Features: Test players deserve Cricket Australia contract security | ESPN Cricinfo. Make contracts a bit more thoughtful eg. offer them to young bowlers so they don't play IPL and get injured/learn bad habits, don't give them to mediocre players who will qualify for them anyway once they play a few games eg. McKay and Doherty.

 

[War]

County news : Now or never again for Chris Rogers' international career | Cricket News | County Cricket 2013 | ESPN Cricinfo

 

[War]

International Cricket Council - News

"Biomechanically, he is like an Anil Kumble who really spins the ball," former Australia test spinner Stuart MacGill told local media this week, referring to the tall Indian spinner who captured 619 test wickets in a brilliant career.

"I had (former test batsman) Damien Martyn face him and he thinks he's the best Australian spinner he's seen since Warney.

"I think he is definitely worth a place in the Ashes squad."

Massive praise that.

 

[sifter132]

Will be very interesting to see what happens with these last 2 guys you've mentioned.

Chris Rogers will at least get a chance to stake his claim with some early season runs for Middlesex, but I feel he needs a LOT of runs, especially when Cowan and Bailey are over in England too and have started well. Because runs and experience in England are the 2 things Rogers brings to the table, not anything else particularly useful ie. he doesn't provide great slip catching, or a mastery of spinners or a particular skill that's lacking in the Aussie side. It's his form only that would get him selected, and if he can't distinguish himself in the next month, then I feel his chances are slim. He will be a good emergency standby if someone is injured, or the batsmen are truly awful.

Fawad Ahmed though...he's just the type of guy to catch the eye of forward looking selectors, and it doesn't hurt to have all sorts of people singing his praises - now Martyn and MacGill. He's served time as a net bowler for the Aussie team, even before playing for the Vics, so the players and selectors should know his abilities pretty well. If England is planning to stack their team with right handers (Cook + 6 righties in top 7?), then having a leg spinner will be an attractive option. I'd take him as the 2nd spinner without a thought - he craps all over Doherty.

 

[aussie1st]

Rogers with back to back 50s, I'm certainly growing to the idea of having him in the squad at the very least. Bailey will need to continue this form to take the other spot. Too bad Smith isn't over in England, some runs could have built on the momentum from the India series.