Australia tour of West Indies March-April 2011/12

[Sedition]

I have to withdraw my criticism of CA, they did have an article about the match.
Bowlers give Aussies edge

No other mention of Nevill's keeping, so I'm gonna imagine it was barely a half chance down the legside.

 

[alexczarn]

Harris still called a South Australian??

 

[Dare]

Did Baugh forget that Holder can bowl too. Hopefully he gets to bowl tomorrow and hopefully he does well against the Aussies.

 

[aussie1st]

Dropped! Baugh put down behind by Nevill outside the off-stump off Siddle at 26 total 97-9.

Second one in this match now.

Forrest made 50 not out I believe the only one in this match to get it. Hilfy and Lyon took 4 wickets, Pattinson only the 1.

 

[sifter132]

Forrest top scored, but I think he was always going to be the reserve batsman. Just hasn't made enough runs over the last month to force someone out. If Nevill had made a big score and kept well I would have favoured him over Wade, just for form, but that didn't happen - Wade now locked for 1st Test.

Lyon kinda needed some wickets, as he hasn't had much of a bowl in the ODIs - good on him. Hilfy as well I guess. I think I'd play Harris over Pattinson at this stage. Harris bowled very well in SL and I imagine the conditions will be very similar here.

 

[Sedition]

Glad Lyon picked up some wickets, should keep Beer in the cellar for the first test. Have to put Siddle and Hilfy down as definites now. Didn't think I'd be wanting to leave Pattinson out, but I just can't fit him in.

 

[War]

Forrest top scored, but I think he was always going to be the reserve batsman. Just hasn't made enough runs over the last month to force someone out. If Nevill had made a big score and kept well I would have favoured him over Wade, just for form, but that didn't happen - Wade now locked for 1st Test.

Lyon kinda needed some wickets, as he hasn't had much of a bowl in the ODIs - good on him. Hilfy as well I guess. I think I'd play Harris over Pattinson at this stage. Harris bowled very well in SL and I imagine the conditions will be very similar here.

In trinidad and Dominca for sure, but i highly doubt Kensington Oval will be like that. That pitch could be similar to recent AUS vs IND perth test, thus playing all four quick's is a possibility.

 

[War]

As far as I know it is. He gave it up to focus on his batting and at 37 Im not sure if it would be the best choice to name him as captain. At that age he can call it quits at any time and I really don't believe that he would take it again.

Here is the article. Chanderpaul resigns as captain | West Indies Cricket News | ESPN Cricinfo

As i mentioned before, their is similarities with the windies captaincy hole and Pakistan.

Misbah is 37 also and although a lot of people in PAK have a love/hate relationship with him, he was given the captaincy because he is one of the few experienced players that merits a place - plus the younger players who merit a place can't be entrusted with the captaincy as yet.

Windies have that vacuum at the moment. You dont want to give Bravo and Edwards for example captaincy since they are only now just cementing their place.

Unlike 2005 when C'Paul was last captain - he has a good team now, so i think things would be and should be easier for him.



Looking at the windies first test squad, although given the players gone off to the IPL, the selectors had few options, i believe certain bad decisions in the past have come back to haunt them.

I remember last year when the windies announced their 2011/12 contract list

West Indies news: Samuels, Fidel Edwards given WICB contracts | West Indies Cricket News | ESPN Cricinfo

I don't understand how Nash and Sarwan couldn't get contracts.


Regardless of how much injuries he has sustained in recent times, Sarwan remains the most senior West Indies batsmen along with Chanderpaul and Gayle, based on his record over the last decade.

Sarwan?s injuries I would argue are not all that significant if you compare it to players in the recent past such as Chris Cairns, Andrew Flintoff, Shoaib Akhtar, Shane Bond and Ryan Harris.

Cairns, Flintoff, Bond and Akhtar missed large portions of international games for their respective nations due to chronic injuries during their careers. But at no point in time did their boards not give them central contracts. Their importance to their side was so important that, even when injured their teams eagerly had medical practitioners by their side trying to get them fit, since having those key players fit would only make your side stronger.

Although he probably would have still gone to the IPL, Narine also should have at least been given a developmental contract. Before that list was announced Narine had already starred in the IPL and was creating Havoc in the regional super50 in Guyana.


Finally a word on Brendan Nash. Ok, yes he was axed during the West Indies home season after three (3) bad tests versus Pakistan and India, where he struggled against spin of Saeed Ajmal, Abdur Rehman, Harbhajan Singh and Amit Mishra. But he was fairly solid in his previous series or 18 tests; averaging 54 in New Zealand 2008/09, 39 vs England in 2009 home series, 24 in England 09, 41 in Australia 09, 28 vs South Africa 09/10 and 53 in Sri Lanka 09/10.

Those aforementioned numbers from Nash were some of the best by any Windies batsman during the last two years, which had propelled him to being named vice-captain at the end of 2010. So I think Nash due to the law of averages based on his career record, at least deserved to be on tour to Bangladesh last year.

From that Bangladesh series one could have used his performances to judge if maybe he could regain some international form ahead the more stringent tour to India that followed. If he failed in Bangladesh, then you would have had a very strong case of dropping the 33 year old for good.

But after his forced break he has come back in the first-class season and made runs for Jamaica and his experience would have been VERY useful in this team with certain plays off to the IPL and injured. I'm sure if he was given a contract, he would not have gone and played for Kent.

 

[WestIndian]

Did Baugh forget that Holder can bowl too. Hopefully he gets to bowl tomorrow and hopefully he does well against the Aussies.

Been a long time bro, wha go? I see you still at it with WIndies! What XI you looking at for the first test?

 

[Dare]

Been a long time bro, wha go? I see you still at it with WIndies! What XI you looking at for the first test?

Yes it has! Busy with work but always followed the Windies

From the players that are available for the first test I would go with

Brathwaite
Barath
Edwards
Bravo
Shiv
Deonarine
Baugh
Sammy
Bishoo
Rampaul/Roach
Fidel

Not sure about Rampauls fitness so Roach might get in ahead.

Australia in West Indies 2012: Narsingh Deonarine on probationary return - Ottis Gibson | Cricket News | West Indies v Australia | ESPN Cricinfo

This is kind of sad. Gibson wants Samuels but "they cant have him" because he is away for the IPL?? WTF is that. Kind of double standards that the WICB has been showing from the start of that entire Gayle situation.

I hope Deonarine does well against the Aussies and keeps Samuels out. I was never a fan of Samuels and it was his choice to got to the IPL instead of representing the West Indies which to me should be unacceptable.
I really hope Deonarine does well, he has shown in the past that he can score runs and this year has been bowling well for Guyana.

----------

As i mentioned before, their is similarities with the windies captaincy hole and Pakistan.

Misbah is 37 also and although a lot of people in PAK have a love/hate relationship with him, he was given the captaincy because he is one of the few experienced players that merits a place - plus the younger players who merit a place can't be entrusted with the captaincy as yet.

Windies have that vacuum at the moment. You dont want to give Bravo and Edwards for example captaincy since they are only now just cementing their place.

Unlike 2005 when C'Paul was last captain - he has a good team now, so i think things would be and should be easier for him.

I personally would not have the captaincy anywhere near Chanderpaul. He already has all the pressure (probably more then any batsman in test cricket) to score as many runs and carry the team on his own. Adding another huge burden on his shoulders just doesn't make sense to me. When he gave up the captaincy his performance improved allot.

Sammy is the only/best option now and that's the way its going to have to be for a while until a more capable captain is available.
If Bravo gave two shits about test cricket he would my choice but he just doesn't play that form of cricket because it takes time away from T20 leagues. Ramdin cant bat in tests or at least hasn't show that he can, Sarwan is too injured to be given the responsibility only to have to give it to someone else after a few tours (same can be said for Bravo).
Sammy has take on the burden of the captaincy to lead the team during this transition and has done a fine job. Honestly as a captain I cant complain much about his performance.

 

[War]

This is kind of sad. Gibson wants Samuels but "they cant have him" because he is away for the IPL?? WTF is that. Kind of double standards that the WICB has been showing from the start of that entire Gayle situation.

I hope Deonarine does well against the Aussies and keeps Samuels out. I was never a fan of Samuels and it was his choice to got to the IPL instead of representing the West Indies which to me should be unacceptable.
I really hope Deonarine does well, he has shown in the past that he can score runs and this year has been bowling well for Guyana.

Well to be fair to Samuels, it the first time he has got an IPL offer, so given the dynamics ATM he wasn't always likely to go.

However, i can understand frustration towards him going, given his struggles with the bat, in the just concluded limited overs series.

But as i mentioned in the previous post, if the selectors were smart and had given Nash a contract for the 2011/12 season, they could have had his services again.

I personally would not have the captaincy anywhere near Chanderpaul. He already has all the pressure (probably more then any batsman in test cricket) to score as many runs and carry the team on his own. Adding another huge burden on his shoulders just doesn't make sense to me. When he gave up the captaincy his performance improved allot.

As i said, the pressure he had back in 2005 was mainly because the team was poor/average, thus it started affecting his performance.

Realistically in a full-strength West Indies team right now, he would/should have a lot of batting support in the test team.

Only if C'Paul himself doesn't want it then he shouldn't take it. But given the how the test team is structure, if approached and accepts it - C'Paul even at this late stage IMO is the best man to captain the test team until he retires/another player emerges.

You just have to look at how well he lead a weak Guyana in the regional 4-day into the semi-finals after he came back from the BPL. Except for one innings he scored some big runs down the order in some pressure situations.

Sammy is the only/best option now and that's the way its going to have to be for a while until a more capable captain is available.
If Bravo gave two shits about test cricket he would my choice but he just doesn't play that form of cricket because it takes time away from T20 leagues. Ramdin cant bat in tests or at least hasn't show that he can, Sarwan is too injured to be given the responsibility only to have to give it to someone else after a few tours (same can be said for Bravo).
Sammy has take on the burden of the captaincy to lead the team during this transition and has done a fine job. Honestly as a captain I cant complain much about his performance.

Ramdin would be a better option if he was fit, even with his iffy past test form. He should in the ODI series in India last winter that his batting was stepping up and it least he would merit a place in the team since although he isn't the greatest - along with Baugh he is the best keeper in the region.

Fact is regardless of the true reality that Sammy has not disgraced himself in any format since being given the captaincy in 2010, he is not among the best test XI players.

He is not one of the best three fast-bowlers in the Caribbean. If he plays one of Edwards, Rampaul or Roach has to be benched, nor could you play Bishoo/Narine on a turner - this is plain wrong.

This is the first time since Ambrose/Walsh left circa 2000/2001, that the Windies have 3 quality quick-bowlers to choose from, but you can't play them because of Sammy's default position as skipper.

Australia recently had a Sammy type bowler - his name was Trent Copeland. He bowled quite well in Sri Lanka when AUS won 1-0.

Butttt...as soon as sharp 90 mph young bowlers like Pattinson, Cummins and Starc emerged and Hilfenhaus and Siddle revived themselves - Copeland is nowhere to be seen.

Drop Sammy today, West Indies would not be affected one iota. It is that simple.

 

[angryangy]

They've only won two Tests in the last couple of years; Edwards and Bishoo featured against Bangladesh, while Sammy and Bishoo were the key bowlers against Pakistan. We're not talking about great depth here, with the capacity to groom a Test player from the age of 18. We're talking about a team that really could stand to choose the most accurate bowlers over the fastest ones.

It's great to imagine how well the West Indies will do when they get to select the opposition's rookies, but the reality is that of their own players, not really any are consistent fast bowlers.

 

[War]

[/COLOR]

They've only won two Tests in the last couple of years; Edwards and Bishoo featured against Bangladesh, while Sammy and Bishoo were the key bowlers against Pakistan. We're not talking about great depth here, with the capacity to groom a Test player from the age of 18. We're talking about a team that really could stand to choose the most accurate bowlers over the fastest ones.

Yes and why have they only won two test in last couple years?. A combination of key players injured and being out of the team due conflict with the WICB.

When last have the windies being able to field their trio of most experienced batsmen in Gayle, Sarwan and C'Paul in a test match?.

The depth in talent in all departments has been evident since they defeated England 1-0 in 2009.

At which time in the last decade since Ambrose and Walsh retired have you seen a West Indies pace bowling stocks with the a combination of a proven set of bowlers (Edwards, Rampaul, Taylor, Roach) and obviously talented young bowlers (Russell and Gabriel)?

The West Indies have their best fast-bowling depth right now since the mid 1990s when Ambrose and Walsh were supported by Bishop and the two Benjamin's (Kenny and Winston).

It's great to imagine how well the West Indies will do when they get to select the opposition's rookies, but the reality is that of their own players, not really any are consistent fast bowlers.

What about Edwards form since he came back into Windies team last year highlights that he is a inconsistent bowler?

What about Rampaul's form in 2011 in any format, since he took that 5-wicket haul in the world-cup group match vs India, was a sign of inconsistency in your view?

How could Roach be inconsistent when he carried West Indies attack on his own as a youngster and impressing the world between 2010-2011, in the injury absence of Edwards and Taylor?

Ok he was bit off colour in 2011 (mainly because he was not getting game time because Sammy had to play) but in the last two ODI series vs IND and AUS - Roach has been very solid.


Fact is when considering the best West Indies attack in the traditional 3:1 ratio (3 quicks + 1 spinner) all three of the aforementioned quicks + Bishoo or Narine would make up that attack.

Sammy's does not represent one of the best 4 test bowlers West Indies can have - it is that simple and is certainly not rocket science to be able to deduce this.

 

[Dare]

Well to be fair to Samuels, it the first time he has got an IPL offer, so given the dynamics ATM he wasn't always likely to go.

However, i can understand frustration towards him going, given his struggles with the bat, in the just concluded limited overs series.

But as i mentioned in the previous post, if the selectors were smart and had given Nash a contract for the 2011/12 season, they could have had his services again.

To be fair to the West Indies if Samuels is the best option at #6 then he should be there. I don't really care if it was his first time or fifth time in the IPL. If a player is contracted with the WICB then he should be there representing the region.

As i said, the pressure he had back in 2005 was mainly because the team was poor/average, thus it started affecting his performance.

And look at his performances before and after the captaincy. He averaged 35 in 10 test matches as captain and before the captaincy 46, after the captaincy he averaged 60.
Without any pressure other then being the only batsman that can score runs in the team after his captaincy he has put up huge numbers.
For the last 6 years he has been playing with a poor team and put up big numbers so to me that says that the captaincy would be a bad idea.

Realistically in a full-strength West Indies team right now, he would/should have a lot of batting support in the test team.

This at the moment is a full strength West Indies team. Forget all that ???????? with Gayle. He is not in the team (no matter how badly everyone wants him back in the team) and someone else has taken his spot. Sarwan hasn't done anything of note since the home series against England when the WI won 1-0 so he really isn't the best and at the moment Kirk Edwards has done well in the few opportunities he had but at least he is playing allot of matches unlike Sarwan. Sarwan needs to have a really good year in English cricket to get back into the team and also stay healthy which he hasn't done for the last 6-7 years.
No matter how you look at it this is the best team that the WI have available to them. Gayle isn't available, Sarwan isn't available, Bravo isn't even good enough to be in this best XI and he has only played a handful of first class matches in the last 2-3 years and just going by that he shouldn't even be in the team.

You just have to look at how well he lead a weak Guyana in the regional 4-day into the semi-finals after he came back from the BPL. Except for one innings he scored some big runs down the order in some pressure situations.

That has been Chanderpual for the last 6 years. Big runs under pressure down the order, nothing new. Having the captaincy didn't help him score those runs. He has done that more over the last 6 years without the captaincy then with it.

Fact is regardless of the true reality that Sammy has not disgraced himself in any format since being given the captaincy in 2010, he is not among the best test XI players.

He is more or less being sacrificed for the job. Without a better option he has been given the job and led the team well. You can see that he does his job with pride and unlike many of the other names he is there for all the WI matches.

Drop Sammy today, West Indies would not be affected one iota. It is that simple.

Without a suitable captain every team would be affected, especially the WI with all their issues.
You say that this is a better WI team then the one Shiv had in 05/06 but who is really proven here? Bravo, Edwards, Brahtwaite, Bishoo are all in their first year of cricket and still have allot to prove. Barath, Deonarine and Rampaul are all fairly new to test cricket. Fidel Edwards is the most experienced cricketer after Shiv but is nowhere near captaincy material. If you take out Sammy and replace him with Roach then there is no option but Shiv who will have to lead almost the same team he lead during his captaincy. Nobody other then Shiv and Fidel have proven much at international level.

 

[WestIndian]

To be fair to the West Indies if Samuels is the best option at #6 then he should be there. I don't really care if it was his first time or fifth time in the IPL. If a player is contracted with the WICB then he should be there representing the region.

I guess this is the double standard that the WICB and Gibson seems to be pushing, Gayle is an enemy of West Indies cricket because he spoke out, that was further compounded by his 20/20 world wide contract, nevertheless he is not contracted by WICB, Samuels however is contracted yet allowed to choose the IPL over his contracted obligations to West Indies, this makes no sense!

But some news out of Antigua, the big ma will be back playing for the West Indies!! http://www.antiguaobserver.com/?p=73473 Have a read guys.