Classic Mafia 03 - Endgame - Mafia(thedon5 and MaD) win!

[AbhishekS]

Okay, I'm up for the hypcop. Innocent on MaD.

 

[thedon5]

I have never heard of it either, and from my perspective, I would be able to guess who was the cop based on who people say they investigated.

You seem to have some sort of agenda against me now, I have pretty much followed on with your hypocop thing by giving even more information about my thoughts than that. This doesn't sit well with me. I am just going to say exactly what was on my list except you have moved down in my rankings.

Innocent on Simon.

Guilty on yashdude101.

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How will it tell the mafia who the cop is? We're all supposed to post results on random people.
Sure, there may be certain people who are more likely to be investigated, but how will the mafia know who the cop is?

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This:

Now how is it random if you say you investigated me right after having suspicions of me? That isn't random at all. Others will follow this as I'm not sure how you can be completely random. Indeed, all I did was take mine from my list! Doing a list makes it less obvious. If I was Mafioso trying to kill the cop tonight, this would make it far too easy, because as I said earlier, certain people are more likely to be investigated on a night 0 than others. You are assuming the Mafia will just be idiots, you can't always hope for that.

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I was thinking of a hypocop too.
And I'm getting more and more suspicious of Don now. Trying to stop hypocop is a very scummy move as hypocop will be of massive help later during the game. Can't post much because I'm on mobile but I fully support hypocop and then a no lynch for this day.

Sorry but what? I just gave a list of suspicions, with reasons. That tells a lot more than some hypocop.

I have never heard of a hypocop before, so to expect me to just ride along with it from the go isn't something I'm willing to do.

 

[thedon5]

This

In terms of putting us in a comfortable position today, yes, I don't think it's something to consider until the deadline as 3 vs 2 is tough stuff. I'd like to show you this game as proof for that. Convincing just one or two other people in a situation which IIRC was 3 vs 2 was impossible as they just wouldn't believe me since I wasn't Colin. In a similar situation where I was SK as you'll remember, I just had to sway one person in my direction, and I quite easily got Simon on my side. It makes it very hard to win from there mate.

I never categorically ruled out a No Lynch though, I said we have to try our hardest to find someone before settling for it. This is the post where I said it, and there are numerous others...

Sorry, but for me based on my experience, it's not really an option. It's 4 vs 2 now, and too many times I've been in a 3 vs 2 situation, and have lost. Fact is, depending on who is still alive, turning two other townies onto your side, even when you know who the Mafia are, is tough work. 2-3 times I've put across well reasoned arguments against the Mafia in 3 vs 2 situations, and have lost when just one guy sided with the Mafia because Colin was Mafia. This was the case with guys like Aditya and Zhuorb, I'm not sure if we have players like that in this game.

At the very least, we have to have a solid read on who is most likely Mafia before no lynching, but again, we are gambling that the cop won't die at night assuming they don't claim now, and that would be a disaster.

I find it strange that you consider it "the only option". We have to thoroughly analyse each and every player in the game before coming to the conclusion that we should put through a no lynch, and this would be in a few real life days when a deadline has been set. Otherwise, we are here to scumhunt and lynch a Mafia member to make life easy for us as opposed to a longshot 3 vs 2 situation.

As I have just shown, you seem to be skipping over things I have said seemingly just to try and lay the foundations so that you can get rid of me. I wouldn't rule out yourself and Yudi as a team as you seem to be picking on very little non-existent things (me not full knowing how a hypocop will help, but then doing better than that with a list, and me wanting to scumhunt before going for a no lynch). Selective listening is something I'd associate with Mafia or careless town, and last I checked, you play town pretty well.

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Dammit, quote didn't work properly!

 

[Abhas]

How is linking an old game going to help? I can show you a game which the mafia won from a 9vs2 situation.
I dont know what you're thinking hypocop would do, because it won't uncover the mafia magically, it is only there to disguise the identity of the cop, so that he's not killed at night. If he is, we can use his result.
I'm really surprised at your aggression against my FOS. It could be just a joke, much like user's Lynch in the last game. You moving my ranking down your "list" doesn't bother me at all. Your posts have ascertained to me you're mafia.. If only I could present the evidence I would have lynched you today itself, but it could prove a bit hard for the town if we lose the cop tonight.

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Oh and the hypocop result should be innocent.. There needs to be a single result.

 

[MaD]

No hypocop and cop dies = 0 results
Hypocop and cop dies = 1 result
Hypocop or No hypocop and cop lives = 2 results from cop

If the cop dies, Hypocop is favourable, otherwise obviously not. However doing Hypocop allows the mafia to narrow down who the cop is, therefore increasing the chances of the cop dying and the town missing out on a result. So we need to decide whether doing hypocop will allow the mafia to significantly increase their chances of finding the cop. This is something to think about and im unsure atm if its the right thing to do. Your thoughts Abhas?

Btw, for hypocop, we have to give a guilty and innocent result right?

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But then again, if we don't Hypocop and the mafia does figure out who the cop is, we'd probably be screwed tomorrow.
Abhas and Yudi are done already so it may be too late to opt out anyway

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I'm not against it by all means, just feel it needs more discussion

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Well thedon5 has done it as well so I guess me, Simon and Yash might as well?

 

[thedon5]

How is linking an old game going to help? I can show you a game which the mafia won from a 9vs2 situation.
I dont know what you're thinking hypocop would do, because it won't uncover the mafia magically, it is only there to disguise the identity of the cop, so that he's not killed at night. If he is, we can use his result.
I'm really surprised at your aggression against my FOS. It could be just a joke, much like user's Lynch in the last game. You moving my ranking down your "list" doesn't bother me at all. Your posts have ascertained to me you're mafia.. If only I could present the evidence I would have lynched you today itself, but it could prove a bit hard for the town if we lose the cop tonight.

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Oh and the hypocop result should be innocent.. There needs to be a single result.

I'm giving an example of why I don't like 3 vs 2 situations, it is tough with an incompetent town. In my experience, it is difficult, I don't know about yours.

From what I understood, hypocop merely shows the opinions of most people, so I wrote a list instead, which shows more than a hypocop. You and Yudi attacked me for this, now I understand the real purpose, I see it could be useful but not something the

On the aggression, it isn't 'aggression'. I am simply explaining myself, and you are ignoring my explanations. When people wrongly accuse me of being Mafia, it annoys me, especially for such weak reasons. I know you've played many games with me in the past, so you should know that when people go after me, that is my usual response. Would you rather I sat down and said nothing? I prefer when someone I am suspicious of fleshes out what they meant when I go after them, so I do the same.

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No hypocop and cop dies = 0 results
Hypocop and cop dies = 1 result
Hypocop or No hypocop and cop lives = 2 results from cop

If the cop dies, Hypocop is favourable, otherwise obviously not. However doing Hypocop allows the mafia to narrow down who the cop is, therefore increasing the chances of the cop dying and the town missing out on a result. So we need to decide whether doing hypocop will allow the mafia to significantly increase their chances of finding the cop. This is something to think about and im unsure atm if its the right thing to do. Your thoughts Abhas?

Btw, for hypocop, we have to give a guilty and innocent result right?

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But then again, if we don't Hypocop and the mafia does figure out who the cop is, we'd probably be screwed tomorrow.
Abhas and Yudi are done already so it may be too late to opt out anyway

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I'm not against it by all means, just feel it needs more discussion

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Well thedon5 has done it as well so I guess me, Simon and Yash might as well?

What I have been saying for quite a while, goes straight over Abhas' and Yudi's heads though.

Just makes me think they are a team together.

 

[SiriusBlack]

edited

 

[Villain]

I haven't posted at all.. That's rubbish logic.

So around 63 hours left.

Massive FOS: yashdude101

Those were nothing accusations, though this is not to say Simon is completely in the clear, that's another thing up for debate.

It's possible he knows something I guess... Yash if you are the cop and got a Mafia read on Simon, it's better to come out and say it, as it'll put us in a much better position for tomorrow even if you do die.

That was nothing more than to get some input from Simon, I know my allegations were baseless but I was a bit suspicious of him. A FOS would've been better though. And I don't know why lynching someone off with knowing no one else would support and do so make people suspicious of me.
Unlynch: Simon
About the hypocop idea, I feel it's rather stupid the cop can easily be find out with that.
And I see Don supporting Simon every now and then,(Innocent on Simon) and so on. Same thing can be said about Yudi and Abhas. MaD seems to be playing his own game. From my short experience I can fairly say the mafia(s) never seem to be even mentioning/supporting each other, they try and support the townies rather. So I don't really think Abhas is that stupid that he'd put up "Innocent on Yudi" with having Yudi as his mafia mate. Same can be said about Don supporting Simon.

 

[thedon5]

I guess that's fair enough, but I think you can understand why that is very suspicious. My suspicions of you aren't gone, but they have been reduced as I feel it is a good explanation. In the future just FOS.

I haven't really supported Simon other than on my hypercop, that was more borne out of the fact that you went after him for no reason.

 

[MaD]

I'm going to hold on on doing a hypocop atm unless Abhas/Yudi can explain why its definitely the best thing to do. The mafia has a 1 in 4 chance of picking out the cop and doing hypocop would most like increase that chance. Im just unsure if it's worth risking the cops second result.

 

[Abhas]

No hypocop and cop dies = 0 results
Hypocop and cop dies = 1 result
Hypocop or No hypocop and cop lives = 2 results from cop

You yourself have summed up why we need to hypocop.
If the cop dies tomorrow, we're doomed.
If the cop's first result dies, we're back to square 1. Besides, we do not know whether the cop has actually got a town result. Maybe he's looking to get the other mafia, because if he reveals himself now, he's dead for sure.
Unlike suggested earlier by thedon, I don't consider the mafia weak. They would in any case be able to figure out the cop.
Besides, it's a 25% chance of getting the cop at the moment, if we do the hypercop, it would at the most increase to 33%, but it should help the town get a clear and more trust.

If you guys don't want to hypercop, I'm sure you would have something in mind about how to go about the game now.
I would be the least interested in revealing roles now, or risking a lynch.
From my experience, town shouldn't have a problem with a hypercop at all. It is the mafia's results which can lead them into trouble.

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I'm giving an example of why I don't like 3 vs 2 situations, it is tough with an incompetent town.

How do you know the town is incompetent? We're pretty much the same people playing as the last game, and the last time I checked, the town won.
This is the second time I've seen a reference to the strength of the alignments. You had asked me not to underestimate the mafia, now you're conveniently assuming the town to be weak.
Definitely scummy in my opinion. These things can only be known to the mafia.

 

[MaD]

I'd have to agree with that. Even though we may increase the chances of the mafia targeting the cop, its essential that we have at least 1 result from him to give us a chance tomorrow.

Innocent on Abhas

 

[thedon5]

You yourself have summed up why we need to hypocop.
If the cop dies tomorrow, we're doomed.
If the cop's first result dies, we're back to square 1. Besides, we do not know whether the cop has actually got a town result. Maybe he's looking to get the other mafia, because if he reveals himself now, he's dead for sure.
Unlike suggested earlier by thedon, I don't consider the mafia weak. They would in any case be able to figure out the cop.
Besides, it's a 25% chance of getting the cop at the moment, if we do the hypercop, it would at the most increase to 33%, but it should help the town get a clear and more trust.

If you guys don't want to hypercop, I'm sure you would have something in mind about how to go about the game now.
I would be the least interested in revealing roles now, or risking a lynch.
From my experience, town shouldn't have a problem with a hypercop at all. It is the mafia's results which can lead them into trouble.

I disagree that the cop shouldn't out if they have a Mafia result - that would make it 3 vs 1 and an infinitely better scenario. There is a 25% chance that the cop will die anyway, even if they don't reveal, so it would be a huge shame if they were to die without outing a member of the Mafia had they got a guilty result. I feel that the cop got an innocent result though. We can't rely only on the cop to get us the win, we have to use gameplay, and that is why the cop must out if they have a guilty result.

Please point out where I said the Mafia was weak btw? You have seemed to misquote me quite often in this game, like you're trying to frame me or something.

I am still having trouble understanding why a list would show less than a hypercop. That's definitely something everyone should do at the very least and is far more conventional.

How do you know the town is incompetent? We're pretty much the same people playing as the last game, and the last time I checked, the town won.
This is the second time I've seen a reference to the strength of the alignments. You had asked me not to underestimate the mafia, now you're conveniently assuming the town to be weak.
Definitely scummy in my opinion. These things can only be known to the mafia.

Another complete misquote. I said it can be hard if the town is competent. I never said in our current game the town is incompetent, that remains to be seen.

As for not underestimating the Mafia, this is true with any game. I don't remember explicitly stating this such that it needed to be highlighted, it may have been part of one of my massive walls of text, I just can't remember.

I should continually misquote you and take everything you say the wrong way and we'll see how you like it.

 

[AbhishekS]

I say it again that we shall just do the hypocop and proceed with no lynch. And don't take this post as 'Yudi, you are trying to rush things'. We don't have much to discuss anyway, and we can just hope that the cop doesn't die on the coming night and has good results.

No lynch

 

[SiriusBlack]

edited