Complaining about lack of modding on consoles

[taru1]

consoles made for games on the other hand computer replaced type writer!

 

[ellgieff]

As long as you don't think like that when it comes to stuff like heart surgery!

Framerate too, that's very important in gameplay terms as well, especially in games that require timing/reactions like shooters, important in sports games too.

The mods for DBC may be 'cosmetic', but so is the colour of your car. A pink and lime green striped car with a penis painted on it would get you to work in the morning but it would irritate me and make me a bit uncomfortable driving it. Same sort of thing with playing vanilla unmodded games...

There are also plenty of mods for games that are much, much more than just cosmetic changes.

I'm aware that gameplay mods exist - they're the ones I bother with on the games I play that aren't on my console (and a big YAY for Steamplay/Feral Interactive/Aspyr Media).

In sports games, gameplay modifications tend to be better served by sliders tweaking settings, implemented by the original developers.

I happen to dislike the music deadmaufive makes, but his car seems relevant here: Deadmau5's Nyan Cat Ferrari Is Exquisite Trolling[DOUBLEPOST=1407497561][/DOUBLEPOST]

I don't think 'Heart Surgery 2014' will ever make it to console either.

When I play on my console I'm 3 metres back from the screen. When I play on the PC I'm less than 1 metre from the screen. I agree that PC definition is better, but when you are 3 metres back from the screen it doesn't matter so much.

The other reason I prefer console to the PC: my A/V receiver drives some stupidly good speakers and PC sound cards tend to be completely shit.

 

[Gurjot95]

Longevity of a game doesn't make developers or publishers money. It does make gamers happy

Shouldn't that be the main motive of developers if you're looking to build a franchise? If your game is being played for a long time, people are going to be intrigued for your next games. However, if they lose interest soon, there is big possibility it is going to cost you sales for the next version. I am talking about most causal gamers here since they are the backbone in getting more sales. The best developers can do while building the franchise is to add new features while keeping the game mechanics same throughout but if enough causal gamers are going to lose interest in your game without getting anything new over a period of times, they are most likely to miss your next version. Hardcore cricket fans will keep buying it without a doubt but if you're eyeing to bring others gamers into buying your game, you have to keep them interested for a long time. And with a low budget company like Big Ant, I don't think you can spike enough interest with regular DLC's.

 

[Deleted member 9102]

I'm aware that gameplay mods exist - they're the ones I bother with on the games I play that aren't on my console (and a big YAY for Steamplay/Feral Interactive/Aspyr Media).

In sports games, gameplay modifications tend to be better served by sliders tweaking settings, implemented by the original developers.

I happen to dislike the music deadmaufive makes, but his car seems relevant here: Deadmau5's Nyan Cat Ferrari Is Exquisite Trolling

There are mods that are pretty much total conversions of existing games, or end up spawning new games entirely.

Counter Strike, Team Fortress, Red Orchestra, Insurgency, DayZ, Dota and The Stanley Parable have all been mods and ended up becoming great games in their own right, there's bound to be plenty more like this... There's also the fantastic Black Mesa and The Dark Mod which are free.

Mods are far from purely cosmetic, and even those that are cosmetic are still excellent... The mod for Skyrim that affects the weather to greatly enhance the visuals and SFX of weather conditions greatly enhances the ambience and atmosphere of the game, as do the lighting mods which make caves and dungeons darker which affects the gameplay... There's also locational damage mods, mods to add much greater variety to the enemies and items and much more.

 

[ellgieff]

Shouldn't that be the main motive of developers if you're looking to build a franchise? If your game is being played for a long time, people are going to be intrigued for your next games. However, if they lose interest soon, there is big possibility it is going to cost you sales for the next version. I am talking about most causal gamers here since they are the backbone in getting more sales. The best developers can do while building the franchise is to add new features while keeping the game mechanics same throughout but if enough causal gamers are going to lose interest in your game without getting anything new over a period of times, they are most likely to miss your next version. Hardcore cricket fans will keep buying it without a doubt but if you're eyeing to bring others gamers into buying your game, you have to keep them interested for a long time. And with a low budget company like Big Ant, I don't think you can spike enough interest with regular DLC's.

There are no mods for MLB: The Show. There is a very, very committed community of hardcore baseball fans attached to it, though.

Mods (and DLC) don't convince anyone to buy the next generation of a franchised game - especially if the franchise is being turned around regularly enough. A game like Civ, where there can be 4/5 years between iterations, can use Mods and/or DLC to keep interest up until the next version arrives.

But games that roll over iterations much sooner than that don't need them.

 

[zimrahil]

...that all being said, I love the ol' PS3 because it's easy. It's just plug and play. PC's take a bit of know-how and fiddling around, I guess the most likely always will. Although, Steam does make it easier, certainly.

These are my thoughts too, plus my misses doesn't want the PC lumbered up and down the stairs every time I wanted to use the TV for game playing (Especially as she uses PC for work mainly) blah blah blah

Having said that, if gameplay changing mods eventually get released I will be fighting her more for PC access

 

[ellgieff]

There are mods that are pretty much total conversions of existing games, or end up spawning new games entirely.

Counter Strike, Team Fortress, Red Orchestra, Insurgency, DayZ, Dota and The Stanley Parable have all been mods and ended up becoming great games in their own right, there's bound to be plenty more like this... There's also the fantastic Black Mesa and The Dark Mod which are free.

Mods are far from purely cosmetic.

o_O Yes, I know. That would be why I said that I was aware gameplay mods exist.

Quick question, how many of those games are sports games?

*edit* Actually, I searched the couple I didn't know about, so I'll make the statement instead of asking the question: I have literally no interest in how many versions of Doom there are, and think it's an indictment of computer gaming that the best thing that can be said for modding is that it's meant there are even more versions of Doom on the planet.

 

[Gurjot95]

There are no mods for MLB: The Show. There is a very, very committed community of hardcore baseball fans attached to it, though.

MLB: The Show is a licensed game and doesn't really need any mod to improve the already good looking and licensed contents. Again, proving my point that we shouldn't compare cricket games with big franchise. I would really like to know if there is any low budget console exclusive sports game around here which has good amount of fan base over its series.

 

[Deleted member 9102]

o_O Yes, I know. That would be why I said that I was aware gameplay mods exist.

Quick question, how many of those games are sports games?

Because sports games are the be all and end all?

The very best tennis game out there is Tennis Elbow 2013 which is a PC exclusive and thanks to mods you can have hundreds of real players with realistic playstyles, every event on the ATP calendar and accurate animations for forehand/backhand/serve animations for many of the top players. PES has had very high quality mods done to improve gameplay aspects... As did Cricket 04-07 on PC on this very site.

Edit - I didn't say they were the best thing about modding... Simply that they were examples of mods that went way beyond just being visual.

 

[ellgieff]

MLB: The Show is a licensed game and doesn't really need any mod to improve the already good looking and licensed contents. Again, proving my point that we shouldn't compare cricket games with big franchise. I would really like to know if there is any low budget console exclusive sports game around here which has good amount of fan base over its series.

*shrugs* I would really like to know if there are any examples where modding of console games meant that more people bought the next iteration of the game.

Because sports games are the be all and end all?

The very best tennis game out there is Tennis Elbow 2013 which is a PC exclusive and thanks to mods you can have hundreds of real players with realistic playstyles, every event on the ATP calendar and accurate animations for forehand/backhand/serve animations for many of the top players. PES has had very high quality mods done to improve gameplay aspects... As did Cricket 04-07 on PC on this very site.

No, because this is a sports game.

So, why is there no Tennis Elbow 2014? Is there a 2015 in the works? This is a genuine question - because I think it's likely that the modding scene will utterly kill the market for another iteration of that game. The PES mods on console are, as far as I'm aware, utterly cosmetic.

Keep your point in mind, man. You're arguing that modding is necessary for a game. I'm arguing that for the kind of game we're discussing, modding is not only unnecessary, it's counter-productive from a developer/publisher perspective.

 

[zombieian]

These are my thoughts too, plus my misses doesn't want the PC lumbered up and down the stairs every time I wanted to use the TV for game playing (Especially as she uses PC for work mainly) blah blah blah

Having said that, if gameplay changing mods eventually get released I will be fighting her more for PC access

Mrs Zombie is a cricket lover. She watches me play and gives advice.

Perhaps I will get it on PC after all!

 

[Gurjot95]

*shrugs* I would really like to know if there are any examples where modding of console games meant that more people bought the next iteration of the game.

I don't think Consoles support mods but I am not sure you're understanding my point. However if you want I can give you numerous examples about PC games mod helping in increasing overall sales and even leading to developers creating next version because of it.

 

[Deleted member 9102]

No, because this is a sports game.

So, why is there no Tennis Elbow 2014? Is there a 2015 in the works? This is a genuine question - because I think it's likely that the modding scene will utterly kill the market for another iteration of that game. The PES mods on console are, as far as I'm aware, utterly cosmetic.

Keep your point in mind, man. You're arguing that modding is necessary for a game. I'm arguing that for the kind of game we're discussing, modding is not only unnecessary, it's counter-productive from a developer/publisher perspective.

Yes, the developer of Tennis Elbow plans to release the next version in 2015 or 2016 so you 'think' wrongly on that one.

Yes, the PES mods on console are mostly cosmetic, but the mods on PC are far from just cosmetic. There are gameplay tools so that you can tweak sliders to change various things like AI/physics/speed etc as well as stuff that lets you add more leagues and switch between them easily, whereas with the original or console versions, you are limited to the number of leagues/slots in the game as it is.

If the modding were actually counter productive as you say, then wouldn't by the same logic the Academy sharing stuff in DBC be counter productive? That lets you keep all of your teams and stats up to date without the need for purchasing a sequel... I really don't think this is an issue. People don't just stick with old sports games because they can mod them for the new season. I probably wouldn't have even bought TE if it wasn't for all of the mods so I think it's far more likely to work the other way around with it being helpful to the developer.

 

[ellgieff]

Yes, the developer of Tennis Elbow plans to release the next version in 2015 or 2016 so you 'think' wrongly on that one.

Yes, the PES mods on console are mostly cosmetic, but the mods on PC are far from just cosmetic. There are gameplay tools so that you can tweak sliders to change various things like AI/physics/speed etc as well as stuff that lets you add more leagues and switch between them easily, whereas with the original or console versions, you are limited to the number of leagues/slots in the game as it is.

If the modding were actually counter productive as you say, then wouldn't by the same logic the Academy sharing stuff in DBC be counter productive? That lets you keep all of your teams and stats up to date without the need for purchasing a sequel... I really don't think this is an issue. People don't just stick with old sports games because they can mod them for the new season.

So, the argument for cosmetic mods is that it frees up your development team for proper work, because the community does the graphical garbage. I'll point out, again, that I don't care about cosmetic modifications, but this does make sense for a developer to do and I understand that many people watch their games instead of playing them.

The same logic would apply to my argument about modding iff the academy stuff impacted on gameplay (and actually, I think it might, but in unintended ways). I'm saying gameplay mods reduce the drive for people to buy the next version. That's actually already been pointed out in here (ironically, in a post in favour of mods) - gameplay mods provide longevity for the game. Longevity for a game means, directly, that I'm not buying another game (because I'm playing this one, with mods).

The Tennis Elbow devs appear to have kept the community out of gameplay mods, yes? People are modding player movement, and tournament structures?

 

[Deleted member 9102]

This is pointless, you are just arguing for argument's sake or are being incredibly closed minded/biased.