England in Australia limited overs series

[Owzat]

Ok, can only assume Jordan bowled a fifth over from the off here because England needed a wicket at 50/1 off 8 overs, and at 44/2 off 8 overs in the previous match with Jordan having taken all wickets cited, they didn't

Or maybe Cook has learned something, probably not. One extra over, then back to applying the normal formula and/or ringing the changes when a bowler is deemed expensive.

Is Cook captaining the side or are the aussies controlling who bowls? Of course no Root this time around so Bopara is the back-up, bizarrely bowling before Stokes so I am guessing he is injured???

Or maybe more ploy to get through overs cheaply, either way England need a wicket because the aussies are plundering more than cruising, either way unless Bopara pulls off a crackerjack spell England need to stick to wicket takers not someone who has 31 wickets in 96 ODIs. He's not always bowled, but @36 apiece and only more than four against Australia thanks in the main to bowling 78 overs against them (ER 4.69), he's not what I'd call a strike bowler come wicket taker option.

 

[Owzat]

Stokes on, takes a wicket which only Jordan has also done, then is off after conceding 10 runs in his second over which is not exactly expensive in the circumstances given (England conceding about six an over)

England desperately need wickets, although I think the game is gone unless Broad can rip through 2-3 quick wickets and even then I'd be surprised if the aussies crumbled needing 83 off around 22 overs at less than 4 an over

England learn nothing, they haven't for 20 years what makes anyone think they will now.



Wow, no one on at all to post???? Game is over, Jordan again coming back and getting relative stick having bowled well first spell. Stokes taken off after 2-0-15-1 comes back to concede eight off his next over and then is off again, please someone tell me what Cook does as a captain to justify being captain?!?!? Apply a formula of bowling order and then pick randomly thereafter hoping that it will work?!!!?!?!?

Oh and please ICC do something about the floating batting powerplay, indeed all of them. They are rather tertiary at best to the game, and teams don't really want to do anything with them so as a tactic they are a big fail. Keep it simple, set them fixed for batting or just do away with them and have fielding restrictions like only X outside the circle for the first 20 overs then Y outside the circle for the last 10 just so you don't end up with the fielders all sitting on the boundary at any stage.

 

[Umair7]

8-0 8-0 soon to be 13-0

 

[C Boomer]

Morgan for Test cricket !!

At least there is something positive to come out of this desperate, debacle of an Ashes tour England are enduring at present, Eoin Morgan has more than done enough to warrant automatic selection when England next play test cricket!

Heads & shoulders above any of his current teammates, the one and only English batsman who Clarke & co are genuinely afraid off and prize his wicket more so than any other of the English batsmen!

Indeed, if only the selectors had tried him in the test series just gone, perhaps things may have been different !

A world class player ( At every level) !

 

[barmyarmy]

Yeah well they did try that before and it didn't go great...

 

[C Boomer]

Well what more can the lad do ? Are you saying just because it didn't all go swimmingly before, he must not be afforded another opportunity?

Morgan's whole raison d'etre and why he defected from an emerging talented Irish side was to play the game at the very pinnacle of its form...Test cricket and indeed, England were only to willing to have him onboard, much to the consternation of his many ten of thousands of cricketing fans from Ireland and he has proved himself in England colours to be not only a brilliant batsman and fielder but even an aspiring skipper, so without doubt he deserve another crack at the top, after all he's still a relatively young cricketer !!

 

[Owzat]

Yeah well they did try that before and it didn't go great...

A good or even great ODI player does not make a Test auto pick, just take probably one of the greatest England ODI batsmen and fielders of all time in Neil Fairbrother, awesome in ODIs and a Test average of something like 15.

And anyone leaving him out of the all-time England ODI XI should have a rethink. Averaged 39.47 with the bat in an era when scores and scoring wasn't what it is now, at a decent scoring rate by today's measure but very good for back then, and even averaged 47.64 at no 4, 42 batting no 5, his handful of innings down the order dragged his average down

In Tests however he made 0,3,1 and 1 in his first four innings, and only two scores above 25. His average never broke the 18 mark

Morgan is an ok Test batsman, averaging around the 30 mark in an era where that is weak. Averaged 56 against Sri Lanka from four innings, one of which was not out (42 runs per innings). Not that bad, but half his Test innings came against Pakistan and he averaged 29.17 at home against them and 13.67 away, albeit everyone struggled that series.

But in fairness could he have done any worse than half the England batting line up this tour? He's 27.5 give or take, better chance of coming good than some of those older like Carberry or indeed the much sympathised with Compton

Personally I'd rather struggle than poach Irish players, but as England don't care I suppose they either use them or don't. At least Morgan is better than average, England pick far too many run of the mill players hoping they're good enough.

----------

Well what more can the lad do ? Are you saying just because it didn't all go swimmingly before, he must not be given another opportunity?

Morgan's whole raison d'etre and why he defected from an emerging talented Irish side was to play the game at the very pinnacle of its form...Test cricket and indeed, England were only to willing to have him onboard, much to the consternation of his many ten of thousands of cricketing fans from Ireland and he has proved himself in England colours to be not only as a brilliant batsman and fielder but even an aspiring skipper, so without doubt he deserve another crack at the top, after all he's still a relatively young cricketer !!

Assuming you have some affinity for Ireland or some reason for promoting Morgan's case, why should he "must" be "given another opportunity" ahead of others who sometimes don't get one let alone quite a few.............?!?!?

You're arguing his brilliance which he hasn't shown consistently in Tests, England have looked elsewhere. If he were that clear cut do you think England would have dropped him...........?

Bopara averages 31.94 in Tests, offers part-time bowling although not nearly as effective with the ball in Tests. Root averages 36.73 in Tests, also offers part-time off-spin although again not that effective in Tests. Why is Morgan 'special' that he is a "must" to be given another chance in Tests when others have also been tried, done more and in some cases, not given another chance in Tests?!?!? (yet)

I could make a case for Compton (31.93), Carberry (28.75) even Bairstow and Taylor although not based on averages. I'd prefer England to have as many ODI players as possible who DON'T play Test cricket, but it's finding batsmen and bowlers good enough

----------

8-0 8-0 soon to be 13-0

I'd use a smiley, but LOL seems to be appropriate. 5-0 should be your motto, beating England at ODIs is nothing much to boast about.

That Test humiliation however, second in a decade, is. And consider the last decade England lost two series whitewashes was the 80s, not exactly the best era and supposedly this side was one of the best and going to win 5-0......

I supposed the West Indies series defeats were to the best team in the World, and back to back. It was very nearly three in a row, in 1988 England drew the 1st Test :

"Helped by a combination of bad light and rain - which accounted for more than a day's play - an anaesthetised pitch, and some excellent batting by Gooch, in both innings, and Gower, in the second, England ended their losing sequence of ten Tests against West Indies."

Wisden - ENGLAND v WEST INDIES 1988

 

[barmyarmy]

Well what more can the lad do ? Are you saying just because it didn't all go swimmingly before, he must not be afforded another opportunity?

Morgan's whole raison d'etre and why he defected from an emerging talented Irish side was to play the game at the very pinnacle of its form...Test cricket and indeed, England were only to willing to have him onboard, much to the consternation of his many ten of thousands of cricketing fans from Ireland and he has proved himself in England colours to be not only a brilliant batsman and fielder but even an aspiring skipper, so without doubt he deserve another crack at the top, after all he's still a relatively young cricketer !!

To be honest I think our lower order is already full of attacking players that might make flashy hundreds but will probably give their wicket away. I want someone who is a solid batsman who can score big hundreds and is hard to get out.
Mind you with the way things are looking at present Morgan might be batting at 3 by the time the next series comes round.

 

[C Boomer]

Naturally being from Co. Armagh, I am always going to wax lyrical of the mercurial talents of Eoin Morgan though having said that and taking off my rose tainted spectacles, he is surely a worthy candidate for a test call up ?

BTW.. While we're chatting about England and a former Irish cricketer, may I dare to elevate the mood somewhat for all England supporters with a little ditty I prepared just after Ireland defeated England in that now legendary match out in Bangladesh during the 2011 ODI world cup!

You'll find my latest submission under the entertainment section of the forum, @ C. Boomer's cricket poetry...ps I'm certainly not trying to rub salt into the wounds of all you English followers, but this indeed was an unexpected and historic cricket result !!!

It's called; ' The Amoebas x 3 ' !

 

[MUFC1987]

He didn't really push for selection in all 2 of those First Class matches that he played last season.

-----

Just when England look like getting it right, someone decides to send Stokes up to bat at 3. Morgan's been in great form, he should be higher up the order.

 

[T.J.Hooker]

I want someone who is a solid batsman who can score big hundreds and is hard to get out.

This is exactly the formula that selectors and coaches have wet dreams about right throughout the English system. The problem is that in trying to produce players like this they instead usually produce dull accumulators who will turgidly fill their boots in easy conditions, but who fail no less often than a genuine strokeplayer in tough conditions and who can't hit the ball off the square in a real fight.

 

[War]

Australia v England, 3rd ODI, Sydney : Alastair Cook may quit one-day captaincy | Cricket News | Australia v England | ESPN Cricinfo

Although he hasn't disgraced himself as ODI skipper & player in his 2nd role - i believe it would be a blessing in disguise if he is not opening for England ahead of next years world cup.

 

[Owzat]

Australia v England, 3rd ODI, Sydney : Alastair Cook may quit one-day captaincy | Cricket News | Australia v England | ESPN Cricinfo

Although he hasn't disgraced himself as ODI skipper & player in his 2nd role - i believe it would be a blessing in disguise if he is not opening for England ahead of next years world cup.

I think it is more or less scapegoating, while Cook hasn't been a brilliant captain, England's failings go a lot deeper and you'd have to break up the old skool of selection and management as well, and restructure a lot.

What happened domestically? England tried 50 overs in the domestic limited overs league, a sensible way forward to prepare people for international format, and they abandoned it in favour of 40 overs.

They also abandoned the knock-out cup, didn't we used to have two? Now the league and cup I believe aren't they merged into a league that goes to a knockout stage? That has some merits in vaguely being like the World Cup, but about the only two things in domestic cricket they got right was two divisions and introducing T20 (not a fan, but it was inevitable so had to be addressed)



As for this defeat, far too controlled a chase by the aussies, Jordan again taken off after 4-5 overs with 2-1 wickets to his name and then came back for some stick. Bopara got away with it perhaps because the aussies were so in control they decided not to target him.

The problem is England have no proper long term plan, they should be doing something like picking a BALANCED squad of 20-25 players for the two years directly after a World Cup and using those players and no others (exceptional circumstances aside). At the end of the two years review who is "in" and who is "out", address the squad and then keep the new squad for the next two years with only exceptional circumstances making any changes to if for the World Cup.

In such a "simple" plan, just addressing selection not the entirety of the plan, would players like Tredwell, Carberry etc get near the squad? If they did, and weren't good enough, they'd have a full two years of opportunities to prove themselves or otherwise.

Judgement of progress would have to be based on more games = harsher targets. At the moment selection for Tests and ODIs seems rather random, the main players like Cook, Trott (pre withdrawal), Pietersen, Bell, Anderson, Broad and Swann (pre retirement) taking up most of the slots, the rest the usual suspects (Tredwell, Bresnan, Kieswetter/Buttler and Morgan for ODIs, Bopara etc) with a handful of other picks and I'll leave it up to everyone to decide how successful they are.

England don't even know their best side or format of their XI, tactics are outdated come non-existent and therefore can anyone expect a winning mentality when the side is so vulnerable?!?

Most of the tricks they try, pinch-hitting keepers, accumulation, quasi all-rounders, four bowlers etc are rotated and fail. England need their best ODI batsmen, five bowlers of whom 1-2 must be at least able to bat 6 and 7 or higher, and a keeper who CAN score runs in any situation required.

Buttler may fill the keeper slot, Stokes needed to be in the side a lot earlier, England need to find a spinner to replace Swann, and the batting needs serious revising. While Bell, Cook and other regulars continue to fill slots without proving themselves absolute ODI solutions there's no way to fill slots with batsmen who will/might............

With the ODI side it might be best to start from scratch

 

[sifter132]

It's rather moot, Cook as captains before him don't captain so much as go through some kind of preset rotation. What decent captain, or indeed anyone with a brain, would take ANY bowler off when they've taken two wickets in just a four over spell?!?!?

England show too many traits of trying to get throw overs rather than take wickets, taking wickets contains as well as offers the chance of bowling a side out and putting you in charge.

It's one reason why I hate bowler limits...it neuters the captain tactically. He wants to save overs from his best bowlers for the end, or just in case he needs a partnership broken etc.

T20 has also taught captains the habit of hiding their weakest bowlers. That's why Australia has been bowling their spinners straight after 10 overs, not because they are good wicket taking options at that point, but because that's when Clarke thinks they'll be able to bowl cheap overs. It's dangling a carrot as well, hoping the batsmen will attack the weak bowler recklessly.

 

[***Wiljoy]

Agree on both of those points. Haven't seen much . We may have to go through a huge transition in tests, but Cook has built a really good one day side over the past 12 months, and I really think we can go on and win this World Cup. .

You are joking aren't you??? It has taken Australia over 4 years with their "transition" period,and you think the poms can do it in 12 months,??? they would have to go to ALL the colonies to get another team in a short time.
you also say that Cook has built a good ODI team in 12 months,...and collapsed in 3 months into a heap of rubble not good enough to play district cricket in Australia,and mentally as weak as water....Trott,Swann,Finn. and Trescothic from the last tour of Australia,I think it is our weather that does something to the pommy brains.

----------

Alistair Cook's captaincy in the ODIs has been pathetic,and the umpires should have intervened several time during matches 2&3,in the last over of match 2 he wasted many minutes talking to players and he even changed the gully & deep extra cover with each other,god knows why except to waste time and hopefully make the batsmen wet themselves with laughing at his baby-like antics. IMO England have no one good enough to captain the side .

----------

Well what more can the lad do ? Are you saying just because it didn't all go swimmingly before, he must not be afforded another opportunity?

Morgan's whole raison d'etre and why he defected from an emerging talented Irish side was to play the game at the very pinnacle of its form...Test cricket and indeed, England were only to willing to have him onboard, much to the consternation of his many ten of thousands of cricketing fans from Ireland and he has proved himself in England colours to be not only a brilliant batsman and fielder but even an aspiring skipper, so without doubt he deserve another crack at the top, after all he's still a relatively young cricketer !!

Not another non-English captain,are you aware England have had about 17 players captain the side who weren't born in England?