England in Pakistan

[JamesyJames3]

That was a year ago. If you want a quoting competition, you want me to quote the performances of Australia and Pakistan (and maybe also India) in the last 25 years? England beat Pakistan, but only in the last remaining overs in fading light. Before that it's a very sad story for England.

It's nice that England won against Australia, but that doesn't mean England is best in the world. The more adult persons here surely would know that. I hope you guys don't get exaggerated with this.

Both teams are in form, so I am looking forward to this.

Yes we know this but we have just beaten the best team in the world, therefore it can be argued that we are the best.

Also we are not exaggerating..it is fact england are better than pakistan.

 

[UsmanCHADDA]

If Afridi is your strength, i feel sorry for you. He's hit or miss, he will come off 1 every 4 games. He may have something to say in ODI but at Test match level, nahh.

No, Afridi is not our strength. I personally hate his hack-and-slash style of batting, but with your bowlers bowling short and length balls, one gets the sniff of Afridi doing something big (though it will be only once).

 

[nightprowler10]

No, Afridi is not our strength. I personally hate his hack-and-slash style of batting, but with your bowlers bowling short and length balls, one gets the sniff of Afridi doing something big (though it will be only once).

I agree. I personally find his style boring at times. I'd much rather watch Salman Butt bat. He has a very elegant style of batting. Reminds me a bit of Saeed Anwar.

 

[Briggsey]

3 of the last 4 times we have played you in one day games we have beaten you, the last test series we played against you ended 1-1 but it can be argued that Shephard cost us that series by missing all the no balls from your bowlers in the test you won. Before that we beat you in Pakistan so going into this series we hold the upper hand knowing that we have beaten you there already with a weaker squad than the one we have now. Maybe before that yes you did have the better of us but early to mid 90's the England team was nothing compared to what it is now.

I for one am not saying we are the best team now just because we have beaten the best team in the world. We need to do what Australia have done and beat everyone home and away before we can do that and the series against Pakistan and India will be a big test of how good we are and how we can cope with sub continent conditions. Then next summer we face Murali so spin will definately be on the agenda over the next year.

I agree. I personally find his style boring at times. I'd much rather watch Salman Butt bat. He has a very elegant style of batting. Reminds me a bit of Saeed Anwar.

I also like Salman Butt, I thought he was one of your best players against Australia in the test matches I saw him in and is definately one for the future if the selectors keep him as I know you have tried many different openers over the past years since Anwar retired.

 

[andrew_nixon]

we have just beaten the best team in the world, therefore it can be argued that we are the best.

It can be argued, but it's a futile argument as anyone with a brain can see it isn't true.

 

[dazza76]

It's definately a 50/50 series for me.
i watched Pakistan when they played in Australia earlier this year and they have some quality players.
Even though they got beat 3-0 they were on the wrong side of some shocking umpiring decisions.
Yes we beat Australia but let's not get too cocky and believe that every other test team will be a walk over.
It's only 7 weeks away and looking at the state of Freddie Flintoff today it will take him that long to sober up.

 

[JamesyJames3]

It can be argued, but it's a futile argument as anyone with a brain can see it isn't true.

Glad to see you agree with me andrew! and i didnt say we were best in the world there

 

[UsmanCHADDA]

I agree. I personally find his style boring at times. I'd much rather watch Salman Butt bat. He has a very elegant style of batting. Reminds me a bit of Saeed Anwar.

Actually, Butt has been misused by the Pakistan management. In India he did pretty well in ODIs (a century and some quick innings at the top), and I blame the management for just giving him one test and dropping him for the woeful Hameed. Performed average in the Windies tour, with a highest score of 43 in the first ODI. Again he was only given one test, and dropped for Hameed. Whats so special about Hameed? If Butt's technique is wrong then Hameed's is worser than him, and I dunno how he always ends up in the Pakistani squad?! How many times have we seen this guy chasing wide deliveries outside off-stump, and finally nicking one?

 

[Briggsey]

Actually, Butt has been misused by the Pakistan management. In India he did pretty well in ODIs (a century and some quick innings at the top), and I blame the management for just giving him one test and dropping him for the woeful Hameed. Performed average in the Windies tour, with a highest score of 43 in the first ODI. Again he was only given one test, and dropped for Hameed. Whats so special about Hameed? If Butt's technique is wrong then Hameed's is worser than him, and I dunno how he always ends up in the Pakistani squad?! How many times have we seen this guy chasing wide deliveries outside off-stump, and finally nicking one?

I think selectors only stick with Hameed because he started his test career well scoring centuries for fun but more recently he has been struggling so they are hoping he gets a good knock in one of his innings to get him back up to form. Unfortunately that hasnt happened so I have no idea why they would choose him over Butt who in my opinion looks very good.

 

[ZexyZahid]

Butt was given one Test because he didn't perform in the first Test against India. He scored twice 5 runs in the first Test, so I didn't have a problem with getting him out of the team. In the first Test Butt was opener. He was dropped next Test for Taufeeq Umar. And next Test Umar was dropped for Hameed. Of the three openers Hameed scored the most runs. He made a great fifty in the second innings of the last Test.

I was actually surprised he wasn't selected for the ODI series. And yes, I followed these matches.

Since the West Indies tour he had a poor form. But Butt is making good knocks lately.

 

[nightprowler10]

Here is a comparison between Butt and Hameed:

Butt after 21 innings(ODI) - 1 match against minnow team:

Mat I NO Runs HS1 HS2 HS3 Ave 100 50 0

21 21 1 657 108* 101 61 32.85 2 2 3

Tests - 1 match against minnow team:

Mat I NO Runs HS1 HS2 HS3 Ave 100 50 0

6 12 0 311 108 70 37 25.91 1 1 2

Hameed after 47 innings(ODI) - 9 matches against minnow teams:

Mat I NO Runs HS1 HS2 HS3 Ave 100 50 0

47 47 1 1748 127* 116 102 38.00 3 9 2

Tests - 3 matches against minnow team:

Mat I NO Runs HS1 HS2 HS3 Ave 100 50 0

17 33 3 1168 170 105 91 38.93 2 7 0

As you can see, even though Butt has done well in ODIs, he has yet to prove himself in tests (although the century against Australia was great). Hameed on the other hand seems consistent enough in both forms of the game, which is why he keeps getting the nod for tests. I think it would work well for Pakistan to use Butt as no. 1 and Hameed at no. 2 position for tests, that way Butt will more exposure and Hameed will get a chance to prove to the selectors why he is needed in tests. They're both good batsmen. And just because the latter keeps going after wide deliveries doesn't mean he's just not good enough. Butt has his weaknesses too.

EDIT: One fact to note is that Hameed's top two scores were against Bangladesh, both in the same test match. His best against a strong team is 91 against India last year.

 

[Sureshot]

Afridi should keep opening. Harmison gives him length and Hoggard has no pace. It will be like a birthday gift to him

I bet that's what Gilly thought

Akhtar is inconsistant, rana is accurate but no mcgrath, and kaneria, yes hes good, but not as good as a certain leggy we have just faced!

I think England will deal with them all pretty well, especially akhtar, i cant see him doing anything. yes hes got county wickets, but thats not that big an achievement.

Marcus Trescothick has proved that as he has a first class hat-trick :hpraise

Ask Harmison to try that on Pakistani wickets! It would be bread and butter for guys like Inzamam and Afridi!

I dont underestimate England or Pakistan! I think it will be a very close 'n interesting series!!! And Mr. James, dont start sticking out your tongue as yet! Who knows? Pakistan might cut off your tongues just like how you guys did it to the Aussies!!!!

Harmison has extreme (!!) bounce and from what i remember the bounce is quite pronounced in Pakistan. Also Waqar and Wasim could swing it so watch out for Hoggy and jones.

And this talk of playing 2 spinners is funny, Why change a ASHES winning team?

That was a year ago. If you want a quoting competition, you want me to quote the performances of Australia and Pakistan (and maybe also India) in the last 25 years? England beat Pakistan, but only in the last remaining overs in fading light. Before that it's a very sad story for England.

It's nice that England won against Australia, but that doesn't mean England is best in the world. The more adult persons here surely would know that. I hope you guys don't get exaggerated with this.

Both teams are in form, so I am looking forward to this.

but the difference is this team is one of the best we've had for donkeys years. And in Flintoff we have one of the best players in the game, Only warne is better and he couldn't even help Aus beat us with 40 wickets at 18s

It can be argued, but it's a futile argument as anyone with a brain can see it isn't true.

By that i take it you are referring to the injuries to McGrath?

right there, but then it's mainly been England that have had injuries in series with Australia.

 

[Reider84]

I have to agree with Briggsey and say that the series could come down to the batsmen. Both teams have players who like to play their shots so it should be a fast scoring series.

The one thing England will be missing is the home support which has been fantastic during the ashes, although I'm sure the barmy army will make themselves heard.

I believe though that England have grown so much as a team and will produce something extra special when they really need to as they have so many match winners these days.

People talk about Hoggard as though he bowls about 70 mils an hour short and wide. If anyone has watched him over the years then this isn't true, he bowls around 85mph on average, swings the ball and is very accurate, watch out for those lbws!!

Kaneira will be the biggest threat I'm sure as we do struggle against quality leg spin but then he won't be anywhere near the threat of Shane Warne who obviously we had problems with but players like Pietersen he can soon restrict the threat of Kaneira with a few lethal blows.

I agree Pakistan could be the favourites for the one day series but with players like Pietersen and Flintoff you never know.

England to win the test series 2-0
Man of the series - Andrew Flintoff
Leading English Run Scorer - Andrew Strauss
Leading English Wicket Taker - Steve Harmison (Do not underestimate him, he may not be at the moment but you don't become ranked the best test bowler in the world by fluke. He is a sleeping giant who will come good again.)

 

[andrew_nixon]

By that i take it you are referring to the injuries to McGrath?

I'm referring to the fact that England simply are not the best team in the world.

 

[Sando]

I'm referring to the fact that England simply are not the best team in the world.

Mate, they might kick you out of the country for such heresy....