England National football team thread

[Lee1981]

No - a shocker is what you call Bebe. Welbeck is someone who has come through the ranks and is well respected by Sir Alex. He's only 21 - he will get better. It's not just Sir Alex either, it's other 'football people' - I doubt you're right and they're wrong - otherwise, why aren't you where they are?

Example for you, Walcott was signed by a certain mr wenger, now what 6-7years on is he at the level that Wenger thought he would be???

No he is not, and Wenger is a bit of legend at spotting talent and bringing out there potential, so even the best get it wrong,

For me a player at 22 who is at utd and has the potential you an others claim he has should have played a lot more games by that age and be knocking on the England door way before now,

Our last top strikers Owen, Rooney were well established by the age of 20, he may prove me wrong, but i really think he will never be good enough for England or a top 4 club

 

[MasterBlaster76]

Example for you, Walcott was signed by a certain mr wenger, now what 6-7years on is he at the level that Wenger thought he would be???

No he is not, and Wenger is a bit of legend at spotting talent and bringing out there potential, so even the best get it wrong,

For me a player at 22 who is at utd and has the potential you an others claim he has should have played a lot more games by that age and be knocking on the England door way before now,

Our last top strikers Owen, Rooney were well established by the age of 20, he may prove me wrong, but i really think he will never be good enough for England or a top 4 club

Walcott didn't look too bad for England at the Euros. And Welbeck already has two England goals, including one that was quite important.

OK, you're right and Sir Alex and all the youth coaching staff at Utd are wrong - Welbeck's the worst player ever to pull on a Utd shirt. Happy?

 

[Lee1981]

Walcott didn't look too bad for England at the Euros. And Welbeck already has two England goals, including one that was quite important.

OK, you're right and Sir Alex and all the youth coaching staff at Utd are wrong - Welbeck's the worst player ever to pull on a Utd shirt. Happy?

Why are you taking it so personal?

Do you know him?

So basically your saying every player at man utd you rate? not one player there do you think is rubbish? You agree with all the signings and things sir Alex does and has done in the past???

Am i saying he is the worst player utd have ever had? No,

And because walcott had a good 45 mins he is now the player Wenger hoped he would be., and the past 6 years of average performances are forgotten..

Welbeck scored 1 very lucky goal in the euro's, that was his contribution, and i listen to talksport a lot and he has been hammered on there by pundits and listeners since monday, so im not the only one,,, he hasnt took as much stick as Rooney though

 

[War]

As much as everyone makes the excuse that everyone is tired, it does a fine job of glossing over some facts.

For example Rooney hadn't played for a few weeks due to being a bellend. Gerrard has barely played all season due to injury and clearly doesn't have the legs anymore for consecutive games in a week. Parker was injured. None of the big teams went particularly far in Europe either. About the only players who have had really long season were the Chelsea ones, and Ashley looked as solid as ever (notice every attack came down our right) and Terry is too slow regardless of how many games he plays or people he racially abuses. A winter break is a nice idea, but perhaps a league that prioritises technique over passion, and protects skillful players instead of lambasting them for going down when pushed, kicked, and pulled might also help :p

Yea this could be done as well. However the winter break is a must now regardless. It wont make England better and help us win the next W Cup or EUROs, but it will at least cut out the trend since EURO 2000 in which England always go into a major tournament with massive injuries more than every major EURO or world nation.

 

[MasterBlaster76]

Precisely, Mr Dixon. Pirlo was doing the same thing all night and from whistle to whistle, nothing was done about it.

Lineker: We have 3,000 coaches, the Spanish and Germans have 30,000. Says it all.

The thing is, what is it that we need to coach? Because I don't think it just comes down to 'technical ability' - you can't say that Rooney, Young, Gerrard et al as individuals lack techincal ability. Some people have said that the England players are carried in their Premiership teams - cast your mind back a short while: people were saying that Man Utd are a one man team - and who was that man? Wayne Rooney. I don't know - I'm glad I'm not in charge of sorting this mess out, because I don't know what needs sorting out, although something obviously does! One thing I would say regarding 'techincal ability' is to do with a quote from the Spanish coach when talking about his 'defensive' players, he said something like 'they're not defensive, they're creative players'. In other words, they're all comfortable on the ball, and all capable of doing something. With English players, sometimes I get the feeling that a holding midfielder for example is big, strong and can tackle - but he does not want the ball passed to him. Same goes for our centre backs - thoughts?

And one other thing I was thinking about today: is there any way back at all for the England team? Is it too late now that the league is dominated by foreigners? People have said that the German, Spanish and Italian leagues never needed a 'foreigner rule' - but it's also a fact that their leagues have never declined to the nonsensical figure of only 38% or so of the players actually being from that nation! Unless the FA grows a pair and implements a foreigner rule, I don't think there's any way back for England, and that would be a damn shame because at some point in my life, even if it's when I'm an old, old man - I want to see an England captain lift the World Cup.

 

[MasterBlaster76]

Why are you taking it so personal?

Do you know him?

So basically your saying every player at man utd you rate? not one player there do you think is rubbish? You agree with all the signings and things sir Alex does and has done in the past???

Am i saying he is the worst player utd have ever had? No,

And because walcott had a good 45 mins he is now the player Wenger hoped he would be., and the past 6 years of average performances are forgotten..

Welbeck scored 1 very lucky goal in the euro's, that was his contribution, and i listen to talksport a lot and he has been hammered on there by pundits and listeners since monday, so im not the only one,,, he hasnt took as much stick as Rooney though

I'm not taking it 'personally' - if I was, my language would be a lot more forceful . I just don't think it's fair trashing the guy when he's only 21 and already has two England goals in any case. And if you've read some of my posts over time, you'd see that there were players at Utd that I didn't rate. Evans being one, although he has improved a lot and now looks like being a good player, and Bebe certainly another. If a player doesn't appear to be doing it for Utd, I will say so - Welbeck doesn't fall into that category. Sure, his finishing has to improve, but he's not the only one who missed chances at the Euros: Young missed them, Rooney missed them - and both of those are very good finishers.

As for Welbeck's goal, if that was scored by Ronaldo, Iniesta, Messi, or anyone like that, we'd be hailing a world class finish. Because it's an England player, it was 'lucky'.

 

[StinkyBoHoon]

Lineker: We have 3,000 coaches, the Spanish and Germans have 30,000. Says it all.

The thing is, what is it that we need to coach?

it's not about employing a team of coaches to look after the established players. I played football from about 8-16 regularly, and kept at it occasionally, part of boys brigade league, etc etc. I bet most people in this thread did too.

I also bet most people in this thread never encountered a professional coach in their life.

 

[MasterBlaster76]

No, I meant more coaches for the kids - and I'm pretty sure that's what Lineker meant as well. As that commentator in Fight Night used to say: 'If he wasn't taught to move his head, he won't start doing it now'. Same principle.

I never encountered a professional coach in my life because I was, and still am crap at football. My nephew went to a Chelsea ran coaching session for a while though - and from what I remember, there was lots of going from one end to another doing ball rolls and step overs etc - and exercises where you had to pass the ball through your opponent's legs (yes) - but what I don't remember, and what is obviously badly needed is everyone just standing in triangles or squares passing the ball at each other and attempting to either control it with one touch and then pass, or practice passing without controlling the ball first - and some sort of exercise to build pass/move skills. I used to stay behind with my nephew a bit afterwards and just pass the ball to each other, as well as other things like playing crosses across the goal and seeing if he can head them in - but as you can appreciate, it gets boring just with two people. Of course, I'm no expert at coaching - far from it - but it seems to me as if that's what needs to be taught, going by England's inability to keep the damn ball!

He's lost interest now anyway, his sole interest in life at the moment appears to be Runescape. .

 

[StinkyBoHoon]

yeah, basically, even more so now this shouldn't be a problem. clubs take huge sums because of the devotion of their fans, they really should be pumping some of that money back into the community.

tbh, much as man city/man u fans wouldn't like it at first, not buying a ?40million midfielder and instead implementing training programmes and providing coaches all over the city would in the long run hopefully help not only the footballing side of things, but maybe also help some of the poorer areas in the city.

 

[BKB1991]

I agree with you Steve, the technical level seems to be missing from most English players. This year I played football in a league with some of my UK mates and throughout the league I felt that the majority of the players relied on their strength and often played long balls rather than short passes. Not only that but the better teams relied mostly on non-English players as their playmakers.

 

[MasterBlaster76]

yeah, basically, even more so now this shouldn't be a problem. clubs take huge sums because of the devotion of their fans, they really should be pumping some of that money back into the community.

tbh, much as man city/man u fans wouldn't like it at first, not buying a ?40million midfielder and instead implementing training programmes and providing coaches all over the city would in the long run hopefully help not only the footballing side of things, but maybe also help some of the poorer areas in the city.

Man City's owners who couldn't care less about England would love that - see, this is a big part of the problem, these damn foreign owners who want insta-success - and even the Glazers, if they were cash rich instead of sucking money out of the club, they wouldn't like it either. I've said it before - any rich owners should be forced, by law, to pump a certain amount of money into grass roots football, and maybe yes even into the local community at large. Some clubs can easily afford to do both. As for my club, I don't even understand how we're still getting money to sign new players if we're this much in debt - surely that'll just get us even further into debt? A financial expert, I am not.

I agree with you Steve, the technical level seems to be missing from most English players. This year I played football in a league with some of my UK mates and throughout the league I felt that the majority of the players relied on their strength and often played long balls rather than short passes. Not only that but the better teams relied mostly on non-English players as their playmakers.

As I said, I'm rubbish at football, so if someone like me can see that pass/move needs to be drilled into the kids before ball rolls and stepovers, then why can't the pro coaches?

 

[Lee1981]

For me the thing that need cutting back is the old routine in training,, kids or adults is the 2 touch only thing.

For me that only makes people make mistakes, worrying about your first touch and then making the wrong pass as you were under to much pressure, its encourages getting rid of the ball quickly,

Why can a player just not feel comfortable on the ball, take as many touches as you need, as long as you pick the right pass that is what counts, and a forward pass is not always the only pass, if nothings on you come home and build again, we need to own that ball,

This is something implemented in my sunday team i ran last season, we gained a reputation for playing passing football which resulted in us winning our league very comfortably.
In training anyone hitting a long ball had to come off the pitch and do 2 laps around the outside as punishment

Football is a very simple game, i honestly don't think it will take a lot to change our game to make us compete, don't get me wrong it's probably to late for any kids over 12, but those coming through after them have a chance to put us back on the map

 

[War]

BBC Sport - David Beckham not selected for London 2012 football squad

 

[MasterBlaster76]

For me the thing that need cutting back is the old routine in training,, kids or adults is the 2 touch only thing.

For me that only makes people make mistakes, worrying about your first touch and then making the wrong pass as you were under to much pressure, its encourages getting rid of the ball quickly,

Why can a player just not feel comfortable on the ball, take as many touches as you need, as long as you pick the right pass that is what counts, and a forward pass is not always the only pass, if nothings on you come home and build again, we need to own that ball,

This is something implemented in my sunday team i ran last season, we gained a reputation for playing passing football which resulted in us winning our league very comfortably.
In training anyone hitting a long ball had to come off the pitch and do 2 laps around the outside as punishment

Football is a very simple game, i honestly don't think it will take a lot to change our game to make us compete, don't get me wrong it's probably to late for any kids over 12, but those coming through after them have a chance to put us back on the map

Sounds pretty sensible to me - maybe that's what the new Academy at Burton will be all about. Something's got to change, that's for sure.

 

[Lee1981]

Sounds pretty sensible to me - maybe that's what the new Academy at Burton will be all about. Something's got to change, that's for sure.

I'm no coach, but if i pass you the ball and its not the best pass you are now under pressure to control it then pick a pass, which could end up with a mis control and then a pass that is rushed and goes off target,, control it and keep it, wait for the right option, then pass and then make yourself an option again.

Messi never looks under pressure, nor Iniesta, Xavi, i think Spain over pass tbh but the concept is right,

I think movement is our biggest issue, ive played with some good strikers, fast,strong, but very robotic with there movement, very predictable runs, its just something that has been passed down over the years and its only now we realise its time for big change.