England National football team thread

[Lee1981]

You said you were right when you said "my view on strikers in particular is valid."

Do me a favour

Look at it this way, I'm not gonna sit here and give opinion on how good say Andrew Strauss batting technique is, as I'm pants at cricket and have only played for fun, so what I know about batting ain't worth knowing,, not losing you am I ?

However having played footy for 25 years and a lot of it at a good standard, I believe my opinion on strikers in particular is more valid than someone who only plays bloody FIFA

 

[MasterBlaster76]

not for me, think he is as good as he will ever be, not utd class and in no way England class

Such a lazy footballer, does not close players down and doesn't chase to win it back when he miss controls, which he did loads of.

Sir Alex doesn't seem to think so, neither do various other football people and with all due respect, he kinda knows a bit more about spotting talent than you do. Didn't you see the understanding between Welbeck and Rooney that led to the chance Welbeck would've scored with on another day? That was just a flash of what the partnership could bring to England.

 

[puddleduck]

Yeah the irony of some of the top scouts in football rating him, but Lee having played semi-pro football for 25 years not doing so and as such being more valid is kind of what I was hinting at

"If irony was made of strawberries, we'd all be drinking a lot of smoothies right about now"

 

[Auwais]

A very strange time to choose to "not rate" Welbeck, given he's established himself as a regular member at club and national level.

There are negatives you could pick out of Hodgson's England side and their performance at the Euros but Welbeck isn't one of them.

 

[Lee1981]

Sir Alex doesn't seem to think so, neither do various other football people and with all due respect, he kinda knows a bit more about spotting talent than you do. Didn't you see the understanding between Welbeck and Rooney that led to the chance Welbeck would've scored with on another day? That was just a flash of what the partnership could bring to England.

Sir Alex has never been wrong though has he,...?

As much as he has picked out some great talent he has also backed some shockers, I believe Welbeck is gonna be a shocker

 

[War]

Anyway easing from Lee vs everyone debate...

We have a good article this morning in the telegraph about potential serious discussions about the Winter break by the FA and co. Hopefully this could be the real first step instead of another false dawn:

Euro 2012: England's tired showing means winter break a possibility as football's power-brokers push for change - Telegraph

 

[puddleduck]

As much as everyone makes the excuse that everyone is tired, it does a fine job of glossing over some facts.

For example Rooney hadn't played for a few weeks due to being a bellend. Gerrard has barely played all season due to injury and clearly doesn't have the legs anymore for consecutive games in a week. Parker was injured. None of the big teams went particularly far in Europe either. About the only players who have had really long season were the Chelsea ones, and Ashley looked as solid as ever (notice every attack came down our right) and Terry is too slow regardless of how many games he plays or people he racially abuses. A winter break is a nice idea, but perhaps a league that prioritises technique over passion, and protects skillful players instead of lambasting them for going down when pushed, kicked, and pulled might also help

 

[shravi]

Euro 2012: if England think radically and act now we can do a Germany, says Jamie Carragher - Telegraph

Another very good piece by Carra.

 

[puddleduck]

Except the bit he says England have never produced a Xavi/Iniesta. We've had similarish players with every generation, but they get slated for not running around like idiots kicking everyone.

Hoddle, LeTissier, Scholes, Joe Cole. All players with extremely high technical levels, all left out and removed for box-box midfielders. The last two criminally shunted out to the wings to make way for limited but combative players like Gerrard and Lampard.

 

[Auwais]

For example Rooney hadn't played for a few weeks due to being a bellend.

This one baffled me a bit. Why didn't they organise some matches against local teams to at least give him a bit of match practice?

 

[War]

Euro 2012: if England think radically and act now we can do a Germany, says Jamie Carragher - Telegraph

Another very good piece by Carra.

Yea i posted this on the previous page.

----------

Except the bit he says England have never produced a Xavi/Iniesta. We've had similarish players with every generation, but they get slated for not running around like idiots kicking everyone.

Hoddle, LeTissier, Scholes, Joe Cole. All players with extremely high technical levels, all left out and removed for box-box midfielders. The last two criminally shunted out to the wings to make way for limited but combative players like Gerrard and Lampard.

Scholes yes, but Cole not so much to be fair.

Cole actually never excelled for club playing centrally after his early days at West Ham. He always excelled for Chelsea & Lille especially when playing out wide.

He struggled when given the chance to play centrally at Liverpool, but it will be interesting to see what position he plays on his return to pool this season under Rogers.

 

[MasterBlaster76]

Sir Alex has never been wrong though has he,...?

As much as he has picked out some great talent he has also backed some shockers, I believe Welbeck is gonna be a shocker

No - a shocker is what you call Bebe. Welbeck is someone who has come through the ranks and is well respected by Sir Alex. He's only 21 - he will get better. It's not just Sir Alex either, it's other 'football people' - I doubt you're right and they're wrong - otherwise, why aren't you where they are?

As much as everyone makes the excuse that everyone is tired, it does a fine job of glossing over some facts.

For example Rooney hadn't played for a few weeks due to being a bellend. Gerrard has barely played all season due to injury and clearly doesn't have the legs anymore for consecutive games in a week. Parker was injured. None of the big teams went particularly far in Europe either. About the only players who have had really long season were the Chelsea ones, and Ashley looked as solid as ever (notice every attack came down our right) and Terry is too slow regardless of how many games he plays or people he racially abuses. A winter break is a nice idea, but perhaps a league that prioritises technique over passion, and protects skillful players instead of lambasting them for going down when pushed, kicked, and pulled might also help

All of that is true.

Except the bit he says England have never produced a Xavi/Iniesta. We've had similarish players with every generation, but they get slated for not running around like idiots kicking everyone.

Hoddle, LeTissier, Scholes, Joe Cole. All players with extremely high technical levels, all left out and removed for box-box midfielders. The last two criminally shunted out to the wings to make way for limited but combative players like Gerrard and Lampard.

Joe Cole... how we could've done with a 2006 Joe Cole in this England team. Maybe it's not too late for him - he was a great England player; he's only 30 now and rumours are abound he's coming back to play in England, which will help him get an England place. You are right though - we have to place more emphasis on technical players - and as you've shown there, we do produce them. Footballers born here aren't cursed with feet that can't control a ball from the moment they're born - it's the damn coaching system that lets them down.

 

[puddleduck]

Joe Cole should have been reaching his peak this tournament. Funny isn't it how the 5 West Ham superkids of Ferdinand, Lampard, Carrick, Cole and Defoe... not one was in the starting XI for this tournament for one reason or another.

 

[MasterBlaster76]

Joe Cole should have been reaching his peak this tournament. Funny isn't it how the 5 West Ham superkids of Ferdinand, Lampard, Carrick, Cole and Defoe... not one was in the starting XI for this tournament for one reason or another.

Wasn't Joe Cole supposed to be coming to Utd before he signed for Liverpool? Maybe that would've been much the better move for him, because since then his career has nosedived, especially on the International front.

So, he's 30 - by the next WC, he's 32. He's still got a couple of tournaments left in him I reckon, if we can get him back to somewhere near his best.

 

[puddleduck]

Certainly not the only player to have nosedived once they moved to Liverpool under Dalglish Only good nosedive for Liverpool was Fowler's white line celebration