England National football team thread

[StinkyBoHoon]

imo this country is too obsessed with academies and the like and doesn't do enough just distributing money to make a small change. the burton football academy is reported to cost around 105m.

there's about 4000-5000 coaches right there.

we have the same problem with the LTA, amazing, state of the art tennis complex turning out endless no hopers. people cite murray going to spain as key to his development, but if he hadn't had access to a coach early on (his mum) he wouldn't have even made it that far.

I suppose the bit about it being a kind of coaching university does sound good, though was it really necessary? I believe the standards have slipped now but scotland was once considered the best place in the world to earn your coaching badges (mourinho among others was trained here) so it's not as if there wasn't a handy as hell alternative to building a 100m footballing centre, surely that indicates the problem is not that there is a lack of places to train but a lack of available positions to make it worth while (or perhaps a lack of funding for people to do these coaching badges)

 

[Lee1981]

But are the current coaches just following an old method, just say i went and done my badges, would i just have to follow to the handbook?? which if it is the case is where the problem is.

We need to start completely from scratch, sling out the old manual and take a bit of the German, Spain, Italian methods and then we can compete, and i honestly don't think it's hard to do.

 

[MasterBlaster76]

I'm no coach, but if i pass you the ball and its not the best pass you are now under pressure to control it then pick a pass, which could end up with a mis control and then a pass that is rushed and goes off target,, control it and keep it, wait for the right option, then pass and then make yourself an option again.

Messi never looks under pressure, nor Iniesta, Xavi, i think Spain over pass tbh but the concept is right,

I think movement is our biggest issue, ive played with some good strikers, fast,strong, but very robotic with there movement, very predictable runs, its just something that has been passed down over the years and its only now we realise its time for big change.

Alongside that, we've got to teach kids to learn to want the ball - and I mean all of them, not just the strikers/midfielders. They've got to want the ball and not be afraid of it - I know it sounds dumb when Brazilians mention 'treating the ball like a friend', well they must be doing something right.

First touch is very important, because everything stems from that. As you said, we need players who can keep the ball long enough that they can pick the correct pass. Without first touch, that's just not going to happen.

I'm no coach either, but I think there needs to be a progression here. The first thing that needs to be taught is first touch, because as I said that leads to being able to bring the ball under your control, so you can pick the right pass. After that, comes the more fancy stuff involving passing, like one touch passing - but underpinning it at all times must be pass and move - don't just stand there like a doughnut. Surely the last thing needs to be tricks like stepovers and ball rolls - anyone with more expertise can feel free to correct me - but as I said, stepovers/ball rolls were pretty much the first thing done after warm-up at that Chelsea session I mentioned - there's got to be something wrong there?

Obviously, shooting, finishing, heading etc must come into it, but since we're talking passing here, that's what I reckon needs to be done.

You're probably right, Lee - sling out the handbook and start afresh!

The worrying thing is everyone has been saying this for a long, long time now but in the past, at least we can say 'we wuz robbed' - 1986, 1990, 1996, 1998, 2002, 2004 and 2006 were all very good showings by England against technically superior opponents. The last two though, we were outplayed. Destroyed by Germany in 2010 and passed off the pitch by Italy this time round. We have made some progress under Hodgson, but I sort of agree with Shearer - we can't exactly come home with our heads held high and we're a damn long way behind the top nations.

We all know the old saying: if you can't beat them, join them - and they must be doing something right. Can't be too hard to find out exactly what, and implement it here!

Edit: Scholes - at his peak - didn't really look under pressure either, did he? We need clones of that guy. Beckham as well - they both had a certain poise about them.

 

[StinkyBoHoon]

yeah, definitely, I still think both problems could be solved just by putting more coaches about.

you take those 5000 coaches I mentioned that could have been employed, put them working in schools one day a week and/or running clubs in local areas and you have every kid being taught rudimentary technique from the age of 5.

you also foster a more professional environment not dictated by the school yard method of kids who are rubbish (that's you and me, masterblaster ) getting shouted at for not being able to pass the ball or score. you can seperate out the age groups a bit and not have all the coaching done at school where kids who are a bit smaller are forced to play with giants just because they are the same age (most of englands players are 5'9 to 6'0, this isn't a problem, but then spain's passing supremacy is dictated by three players that are 5'7, I just feel that guys like that aren't even getting a look in a youth level). you get a coach encouraging even the worst players and it will create a positive "want the ball" mentality, you give smaller players a chance to play without getting clobbered because there's no one around to keep the bullies in line. you get kids doing worthwhile things rather than chasing fly away balls around in stupid 20 a side matches.

 

[Lee1981]

The size issue in kids football is another barrier, we have to rid our ways of give the ball to the big kid and let him barge his way to goal.

I'm in the garden most nights with my 5 year old boy, just passing back to each other, 10 first time hits, then 10 times control and pass, he much prefers to hit first time as obviously he has learnt he can hit the ball harder this way.

But i make sure he does enough control and pass to make up for it, he already understands that by controling then shooting he has much better accuracy than first time striking.

Its just a case of drilling the basics home early and the rest will hopefully come naturally or may be coached into him.

I hear now that in kids football they have taken away the winning aspect from the games, so no one is allowed to win anymore

Well if that is the case i will not be drilling that into my son, everyone should have the ability in life to accept defeat and enjoy that winning feeling, there is nothing better than winning a match in the last minute, or nothing worse than being on the end of that,

 

[MasterBlaster76]

You've only got to look at the following list, to see one thing in common. In no particular order:

Pele,
Maradona,
Scholes,
Zola,
Iniesta,
Xavi,
George Best,
Romario,

What's the common factor with all of those guys and many others? None of them was very tall.

The size issue in kids football is another barrier, we have to rid our ways of give the ball to the big kid and let him barge his way to goal.

That's the primary reason I didn't like to join in with the football matches at school that much - although I do remember one time when I was in goal, and managed to take the ball off a striker's feet, bringing him down on top of me - the guy was probably about 6ft even back then.

 

[MasterBlaster76]

Did anyone see that excellent documentary that was on a while back - 'One Night in Turin'? We played 4-4-2 against Ireland and the game was a load of rubbish. We played some sort of sweeper system against Holland - probably 5-4-1, as they kept mentioning the spare man at the back - and by and large, we were the better team. 5-4-1 or whatever it was released Gascoigne and Waddle to go and do their stuff - in the next game, we went back to 4-4-2 and Gazza/Waddle felt shackled.

What does that tell you?

And another thing - who else actually plays a flat 4-4-2 system apart from us (and possibly the other Home Nations, along with other countries below us)? Spain don't, that's for sure.

 

[War]

Euro 2012: Murphy urges long-term view | Live football and soccer features | ESPNFC.com

a lot of clubs are trying to do is to get a team out on the pitch to win games, rather than look pretty and produce technically gifted players. Without sounding cynical, I would imagine a lot of the clubs aren?t overly bothered how England do

 

[MasterBlaster76]

We need to hear that from people much higher up the ladder than Murphy.

----------

Euro 2012: England need a tactical revolution | Live football and soccer features | ESPNFC.com

In reality, though, there were vast differences between my England team?s exit on penalties in 1998 and this latest elimination. Fourteen years ago, we were up against a hugely talented Argentina side and played with ten men for more than an hour. We were magnificent on the night and no-one could have argued if we had progressed. Against Italy this time around, we were, quite frankly, outclassed and didn?t deserve to go through. If we had won it I would have felt we were very, very, very fortunate.

Well said, Glenn.


Shootouts before extra time? Yeah, I go along with that - because whoever loses the shootout is going to attack - whereas right now, both teams are often too terrified to attack and prefer to settle for the shootout. It would also take the crippling pressure off (some) players in shootouts as well.

I'd like to see it trialled. We had ET Golden Goal trialled, so why not this?

Let me tell you something funny: Even in bloody Fifa, the team feels more solid when you play 4-5-1, or 5-4-1 as opposed to 4-4-2!

Look at this:

Where's the young kid coming through who can pass like that?

 

[War]

Whoever said it, once it is being said and the FA starts doing something about it.

----------

BBC Sport - London 2012: Team GB profiles

Sad that Bale and Rodwell were ruled out. Big tournament for Cleverley.

 

[MasterBlaster76]

Fabio Capello and England's Dilemma: Only 34 Percent of EPL Players Are English

That's from 2010. Please, can someone tell me how the hell England are supposed to be successful with such a small number of eligible players in the top league? And - how many of those actually have regular starts?? What is the percentage of Spanish players in La Liga?

----------

Whoever said it, once it is being said and the FA starts doing something about it.

----------

BBC Sport - London 2012: Team GB profiles

Sad that Bale and Rodwell were ruled out. Big tournament for Cleverley.

Take it by the scruff of its neck, Tom! Play without fear!

 

[War]

Spain’s magical team show just how far behind England have fallen in the international game - Telegraph

 

[Auwais]

That's from 2010. Please, can someone tell me how the hell England are supposed to be successful with such a small number of eligible players in the top league? And - how many of those actually have regular starts?? What is the percentage of Spanish players in La Liga?

Compare European Football Leagues | Open wide for some soccer!

 

[Bevab]

BBC Sport - Team GB: David Beckham left out for football reasons - Stuart Pearce

 

[barmyarmy]

Just to weigh in on the Beckham thing stupid decision by Pearce in an attempt to try and make out this is a serious competition (and he by extension is a serious manager).
It's not, he's not and Beckham should be playing.