England National football team thread

Skater said:
There's nothing particularly shocking there. Players spend the vast majority of their time with their clubs, and it's them they earn their living from, so you might expect them to put the club before the country. As a fan, I'd take Norwich winning a trophy over England winning a trophy. That attitude is not new for a fan so it is no surprise it is similar for a young player.
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Someone i'd think a kid growing up Brazil, Germany, Spain, France, Argentina, who may also spend the majority of their time and earn their living from playing club football (Santos, Bayern Munich, Barcelona, Lyon, Boca Juniors). Would put country ahead of club.

Of course i am aware of fans here in England (a large majority) who rather see their club win something than England. Which i always find puzzling.

However all i say to such fans is don't complain or be too overly critical when England struggle on the national stage or when the premier league continuously marginalizes English players for foreign talent etc- since national team success is clearly not the main focus of such fans.
 
Why do you find it puzzling that so many fans put club ahead of country?
 
Because I would think your country winning another world cup clearly means more than any club winning the your domestic league or the champions league.

In England due to i guess a combination of understandable disenchantment with the national team performances over the years, people look to their local clubs to enjoy the beautiful game.

But at the same time the premier league is dominated by foreigners and our club culture is ridiculously tribal.

Its a bad culture we have in England and the other successful national teams fans don't see it that way.

This is reason why for example the German team between 2002-2010 were able to do very well in world tournament without having any notable world stars except for Michael Ballack, Oliver Khan - while England's more talented team flattered abysmally. Germany had a strong national football culture whose players loved playing for their country, while our so called "golden generation" always seemed scared to death to play for the three lions.
 
If you are a Manchester United fan, you will hate Liverpool. Therefore, it would be difficult for a Man United to start cheering on Steven Gerrard and Glen Johnson when the internationals roll around. It's much easier to feel more connected to your club than you do to your country. I couldn't really give a toss if England won the Euros but if Norwich won a trophy I'd have a week long party.
 
Exactly. Which is why i say such fans who have a club first approach shouldn't be too critical towards England when they do bad on the world stage, since your support/their support is clearly all about your club.

I'm sure in other major football countries where you have players in the national team, who play for different major club rivals like - Barca vs Real Madrid, Munich vs Dortmund, Milan vs Inter, Ajax vs Feynood, River Plate vs Boca Juniors, Santos vs Corinthias, Porto vs Sporting. The fans by no means find it "difficult" to cheer on those stars when they come together in the national team.

I'm sure just like in England @ United vs Liverpool clash you would boo the opposition England star in good sporting banter. But in England its on whole different level of foolish club tribalism in comparison.

However 90,000 fans have sold out Wembley for 2moro's game, so in some ways their is still enough fans, of all different club affiliations who still love watching the national team play.
 
not sure it's quite as rosey in other countries as you're painting, war.

here in scotland, rangers and celtic fans take their club over country every day of the week. (and we've been blighted by players constantly refusing to play for our national team, steven fletcher being a good example) in spain barcelona are the symbol of catalunya and many of their fans are catalan nationalists that don't even consider themselves spanish, same with Deportivo and celta vigo fans (galician) and of course, atletico bilbao fans (basques).
 
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It's nowhere near as simple an issue as saying petty tribalism is why nobody seems to care about england.

There are probably hundreds of contributing facts. I think a lot of people feel uneasy with patriotism , some sort of post-colonialist guilt makes some people feel uneasy about the line between patriotism and jingoism.
 
I believe that he can become a Kompany if given the time.

Still, his best role at the moment is box-to-box midfielder.
 
Everyone's talking about England clocking up a cricket score. But all I can see now is them being pushed back into their own half by San Marino lol.
 
Can't really make no proper judgements on this game given the obvious mediocrity of this game.

San Marino as i suggested in this thread a few months ago http://www.planetcricket.org/forums/football-discussion/pre-qualifying-world-cup-qualifiers-weak-nations-68910.html - really should be part of "pre-qualifying" for these world cup qualifiers. In such a format the best of this crap bunch would then be selected for these qualifiers - instead of them having a free ride.

However though with England i think may have to find a way to fit Cole and Baines in the same line-up now. He is playing too well now, not to be a starter. The only way i can see this happening is in a 3-5-2, with Cole playing as one of 3 defenders and Baines @ left-wingback:

------------------------------Hart---------------------------

---------Richards-------Cahill------------A Cole----------------------

Walker/Johnson/Jenkinson--Cleverley/Shelvey-Gerrard-Wilshire---Baines

---------------------Rooney---------------------------------------

-------------------------------Defoe-------------------------------

The above is just hypothetical XI once all players are available for future matches.


Glad Shelvey got a some minute. Him, Wilshire and Cleverley represent 3 talented and extremely technical, young English mid-fielders for the future. Playing at three big league clubs. The future is in safe hands whenever Gerrard and Lampard fades away.
 
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