England National football team thread

[War]

The goal we conceded when Caulker was on would almost certainly have been conceded with Ferdinand on. Except he probably wouldn't have kept up with Ibra on the initial break when Sterling lost possession. Caulker actually did well to block the initial shot but was unlucky it went back to an in-form and instinctive Ibra.

I also can think of only one mistake Caulker has made this season, which was merely getting turned by Aguero where one of Huddlestone or Gallas should have been throwing themselves in to block the attempt anyway.

Yes that mistake & being part of spurs defence that failed to keep leads by Chelsea & Norwich & loss vs wigan . But i don't want to be too critical of him for that nor guys like Smalling, Cahill, Richards for their mistakes. They are young and extremely talented & will get better i'm sure, plus as i said this has been a season of bad defending by the best of teams.

The amount of goals scored in the league & in europe by the premiership teams to date, due to school boy defensive errors has to be very high.

Main thing was how we played for 70minutes when the team was setup as Hodgson wanted, and they did look pretty decent. The result most certainly isn't important, whilst the performance was.

Hart definitely needs a rest. It happens to all keepers, especially when they're young and so much rests on them every week.

Agreed on the general match assessment & on Hart, don't think he should have played this game. I really thought Forster & Ruddy would have been given 45 mins each.

The point is, bringing in Rio still means having to get a new partnership settled, so really they may as well go with the younger pairings and start building for future tournaments. We won't forge a solid pairing if one of them is potentially going to be injured on a fairly regular basis, and isn't even 100% they'll be signing a new contract at Utd at the end of his current one.

Hodgson has been shuffling defensive pairing ever since Terry left. So if we are building for the future - mainly the world cup for now instead of any others until the time comes. Then the basis our of defense needs to be lead by Ferdinand, just as how the mid-field has to lead by Gerrard & the attack by Rooney. Although some fans reckon the latter two should be phased out.

We also need to get to these tournaments first - no guarantee's as i'm sure you are well aware of given how solid teams like Ukraine & Poland are. A bad slip up in this qualifiers that makes us finish second in this group could see us facing a difficult play-off. And with teams of the calibre of France, Sweden, Croatia, Russia & Portugal likely to be involved in the play-offs, we certainly don't to fall into this trap.

Which is why i think having the experience of Ferdinand next to any one of those youngsters is a safer bet for these qualifiers. Experimenting & not having security of an experienced presence in this key part of the team is an unneeded risk. A solid team needs a safe goal-keeper & at least one solid experience center back. England just have the keeper area cover. We went through the entire 2010 world cup qualifiers without a secure goal-keeper for example & after Green's blunder in the opening game vs USA - we know how that went.

After qualification is secured & these youngsters gain more experience first team action for their clubs - then we could potentially look at tapping Rio of the shoulder heading into the cup. But for now he has much use.

Why do you reckon Rio also will be injured fairly often going forward? Sir Alex has recently said he thinks he can play until his late 30s like Maldini if he keeps his body in shape. So although i won't put my head on a block that Rio will suddenly be injury for the remainder of this season & 2013/14 world cup season.

Plus their is no questions over his man utd future contract. Thats just our wild british media trying to create a story out of nothing as usual. Read his actual interview on man utd.com: Spring in Rio's step - Official Manchester United Website

All Rio ever said is that he is taking it one week @ a time & isn't thinking too far which is understand given his recent past. But Ferguson clearly will give him a new contract as things stand.

 

[puddleduck]

Watch the Chelsea game, and tell me Caulker could do anything about Gallas clearing the ball straight to Chelsea players for every goal Caulker has been faultless. Gallas has been a liability and is still the main reason I'm not sure about AVB. He could have gone with Jan and Caulker with Naughton at left back, or with Caulker and Dawson with Jan at left back. Instead he's made Gallas captain, and he's pretty much been at fault for every goal we've conceded. He's an absolute disaster.

There's been some poor defending, but also the quality in terms of scoring and finishing has risen across the footballing world. Where the same errors may have gone unpunished before, these days any mistake is punished.

 

[Auwais]

That was quite hilarious.

Wonder what's Welbeck's shots to goal ratio for England? He's much more clinical in front of goal at international level than for United.

 

[puddleduck]

He's apparently had 5 shots on target for England and scored them all I think.

 

[KBC]

ffs Ibra. Ridiculous.

 

[m_vaughan]

I think last night Zlatan silenced all of his critics. All his critics were English, I think. Even the Barcelona camp have accepted and praised his skill and ability.

The man was, is and will go down in history as one of the best ever. Last night was just one more example.

 

[puddleduck]

He won't even go down as one of the best of his generation, let alone one of the best ever

He is a world class striker from his era yes, but many people have fufilled that position without going down as one of the best ever. Scoring lots of goals against average teams changes nothing to do with him going missing in most big games

 

[War]

I personally have always rated Ibra to be fair. By now people should stop taking certain section of the british media seriously. Foreign stars don't have to play well vs england/english clubs and impress to indeed be good.

----------

Watch the Chelsea game, and tell me Caulker could do anything about Gallas clearing the ball straight to Chelsea players for every goal Caulker has been faultless. Gallas has been a liability and is still the main reason I'm not sure about AVB. He could have gone with Jan and Caulker with Naughton at left back, or with Caulker and Dawson with Jan at left back. Instead he's made Gallas captain, and he's pretty much been at fault for every goal we've conceded. He's an absolute disaster.

There's been some poor defending, but also the quality in terms of scoring and finishing has risen across the footballing world. Where the same errors may have gone unpunished before, these days any mistake is punished.

I recall that Gallas faux pas vs Chelsea indeed. Also, while i won't go as far as say Caulker has been faultless in all the spurs game i've watched where he has started - i'd certainly give him the accolade of being the most impressive of the young english defenders in the league so far & i got great hopes for him.

Agree of some of ABV decisions. Don't think he is bad coach, but he is creating some weird problems for himself indeed. Gallas as captain, the Lloris/Fridel situation & relegating Adebayor to a bench player which i'm sure he wouldn't have envisaged.

I won't be willing to give strikers worldwide so much credit. Defending is very bad right now in my view for reasons i stated in this thread: http://www.planetcricket.org/forums/football-discussion/state-defending-current-world-football-81932.html

You look @ the van persie first goal vs Arsenal two weeks ago. That was just a school boy defender error for a real quality defender like Vermalen, which is just one of may individual errors that have lead to goals by many top teams in Europe.

 

[puddleduck]

However I'm making the point that scoring 4 goals against England certainly doesn't turn a player from world class to best in class

 

[StinkyBoHoon]

people that watched him at juve, inter and milan will definitely rate him among the best of his generation.

he's won 9 consecutive titles with five teams in three different leagues being a vital component in all but one of them. in italy they took to saying "whoever has ibra wins." over the run in to serie A titles, there's no one that's had near to that impact in the premiership.

 

[Bevab]

True, but then again, no players moves that much from one club to another during their career in the premier league.

 

[puddleduck]

Italian football is cack though. Clearly the worst of the top leagues these days, and now he's playing for the stand out best team in France. He'll always score a ton of goals. As I said, banging in 4 against average teams doesn't chance my perception of him as a a fine player, but never in the same category as a Messi or Ronaldo.

 

[War]

Bit harsh on Italy that although its not the same as early 2000s. Only the premiership & la liga is clearly better than serie a. And you can argue whether bundesliga is on part with it.

Serie A is still the only league right now, where most top teams are effectively reinvented the usage of the 3-5-2, 3-4-3 style formations in recent times, which man city & barca have then started to follow.

On Ibra, i'd say further he is unlucky due to dumb stigma English media had on him in the past, that he never got a shot in the premiership. He has the size to fend off the aggressive nature of league, to go with his certain ability to score goals here.

 

[StinkyBoHoon]

no, he's not quite in league with ronaldo or messi, but the italian league isn't exactly cack, 3 CL winners form the last 10 years (which has a 31 year old is ibrhamovic's generation), same as spain or england, and it has more depth than both of those leagues, well england have surpassed it now due to man city joining the ranks because of the money injection and the continued improvement of tottenham but that's just recently, ibra has been playing in italy since 2004. during his serie a career he played 7 seasons, and won the title in 6 with 3 player of the year awards (4 foreign player of the year) he's a pretty phenomenal talent.

also, italy always gets under rated in england, it's only like the last year people in england have cottoned on that pirlo is actually an incredible player and Kaka took years to get the recognition he deserved. I remember milan drawing man u and all the man u fans were laughing about how easy it would be against milans ageing squad because none of them had any idea that milan's brazilian playmaker was twice as good as anyone in their team. they got their arses handed to them in the actual game.

 

[ste_mc_efc]

i've always been baffled by the ibra hate quite a lot of people have.

look at his goal scoring record and his medals.

so what if he never "plays" particularly well. he still scores all the time.