English Football Thread 2012/2013

[Ollie_H]

David James?

 

[treva]

He is still here and I hope he will stay. Need a win over Doncaster desperately.

 

[Ollie_H]

I meant that Steve Coppell bought in David James.

 

[MasterBlaster76]

Gerrard's goals only painted over the cracks in my opinion.

England are clearly lacking in genuinely quality all over the pitch. They don't have a single genuinely quality wide player - the closest they come to that is Joe Cole and he wasn't in the squad!

Gerrard wasn't playing off the striker. I'd say he was playing a deeper box-to-box role, with both Barry and Lampard playing genuine central midfield roles. Lampard didn't even turn up to be honest. Barry can't be relied on to be a "holding midfielder" because he's not one! Once again England looked incredibly susceptible at the back and on the counter. There is too much space between the defence and midfield that a good team will exploit.

Johnson and Cole shouldn't both be playing. They either need to gain an incredible understanding and Johnson needs to become more disciplined going forward or else one, Johnson, should be dropped. I'd much rather have someone like Jagielka at right back in a supporting role. Both full backs don't need to attack at once, the ball will only be on one side. If the ball goes to the other side, then he can come forward and support, otherwise he can stay back and form a three man defence.

Walcott can offer so much if he learns to read the game better. His direct, darting runs are very helpful to the side but he needs to make better decisions. Hopefully Wenger can transform him and help him fulfill his potential. But still, Walcott shouldn't be a starter. He's an impact player who should come on towards the end. The fact he starts says a lot about the quality of English players.

Adam Johnson isn't good enough to be playing for England yet. Cole should be on the left playing as an inside forward. He has genuine ability and great creativity, and even though it's not his primary position it's the best England have. With him cutting inside, Cole overlaps offering width and another potent attacking threat.

I think Rodwell should've been in the squad and played. With Hargreaves all but gone, Rodwell is the closest England have to a (potentially) quality holding/ball winning midfielder. England at the moment don't have good enough players all over the pitch to actually be a challenging threat at the major tournaments.

I thought Johnson showed a lot of quality and I want to see more of him at this level. Walcott was a constant threat and even delivered one or two decent crosses!

'I ate a BEBE'

Anyone checked out the new United signing? He played for Portugal in the Homeless WC not so long ago, and only 5 weeks ago signed a 5 yea deal with some Portugese side before we snapped him for around ?7 million. Interesting story.

Football365 | All The News | Football News | UNITED SNAP UP BEBE

You can hear the chant now, can't you? 'I love you Bebe, and if it's quite all right, I need you Bebe...'

So? Still two quality goals whether it was against China or an All Time XI

Indeed - Messi would've been proud of the second one. Finally, Stevie G is played in position and look what happens. The way Capello broke the news about Beckham though was just plain out of order - Capello is acting more and more like a twat as time goes by - his English hasn't improved at all and he didn't register any reaction at all to the goals!

England got screwed again due to lack of goal line tech - the second time in a matter of months - luckily, this one wasn't in a World Cup Quarter final; there is no way in hell that ball was over the line.

 

[Dr. Pepper]

I thought Johnson showed a lot of quality and I want to see more of him at this level. Walcott was a constant threat and even delivered one or two decent crosses!



You can hear the chant now, can't you? 'I love you Bebe, and if it's quite all right, I need you Bebe...'



Indeed - Messi would've been proud of the second one. Finally, Stevie G is played in position and look what happens. The way Capello broke the news about Beckham though was just plain out of order - Capello is acting more and more like a twat as time goes by - his English hasn't improved at all and he didn't register any reaction at all to the goals!

England got screwed again due to lack of goal line tech - the second time in a matter of months - luckily, this one wasn't in a World Cup Quarter final; there is no way in hell that ball was over the line.

Let's look realistically though. Beckham is 35 and injured at the moment anyway. He'll be 37 at the World Cup. The press and public wanted Capello to go with younger players for the future and that's what he's done. Yes, his technique and inteligence is a cut above the rest but he's always lacked the physique, he's too slow to continue at the top level (in wide areas) in my opinion. All he said pre-game was "probably not" which is being realistic. Then afterwards he was badgered into saying something.

The goal England conceded was necessary in my opinion, and it should've been a wake up call. Look how easy it was for Hungary (who, no disrespect to them, lack quality players all over the pitch) to outnumber the English defence and have so much space in crucial attacking positions.

The goals England scored were from moments of individual genius by Gerrard. It wasn't from intricate build up play, or a defence splitting through ball. In build up England were more fluid but still lack a consistent edge going forward.

Dr. Pepper added 3 Minutes and 14 Seconds later...

Walcott is a constant threat but he can't utilise that threat well enough. He'll make a third of his opportunites count (if that). Like I said earlier, if he learns to read the game better and make better decisions then he can became a very useful player. Just look at Nani for proof of how far reading the game takes you.

Johnson has talent, I agree and will most likely be an England starter in a few years time. But at this moment in time he doesn't have the creativity or the inteligence to cut it. Technically he's hardly brilliant either, and he hasn't got the pace of the likes of Lennon or Walcott either. Joe Cole is a cut above Johnson because of his ability to find passes and create opportunities (not to mention the fact that Cole is very able technically as well).

 

[Themer]

Let's look realistically though. Beckham is 35 and injured at the moment anyway. He'll be 37 at the World Cup. The press and public wanted Capello to go with younger players for the future and that's what he's done. Yes, his technique and inteligence is a cut above the rest but he's always lacked the physique, he's too slow to continue at the top level (in wide areas) in my opinion. All he said pre-game was "probably not" which is being realistic. Then afterwards he was badgered into saying something.

That still doesn't excuse him from casually announcing without telling him prior that he's never going to play for England again.

Walcott and Johnson both looked pretty dangerous to me especially Walcott who in my opinion did read the game pretty well sending in quite a few good front post balls that no one got onto because there wasn't enough movement. He also picked out Johnson very well after getting to the byline and he should have scored.

Also think that you're overrating Cole by quite alot as well. He's not played consistently for two years and hasn't doing anything of note in an England shirt in his career.

The player who really shone for me was Zamora, he held up the ball extremely well, linked up with his team mates well and when he had the opportunity got a couple of extremely good shots/headers. Goalkeeper had to make two great saves against Zamora, especially the one where he tipped it just over the bar (even though the ref gave a goalkick ) and from his header at the back post.

 

[Dr. Pepper]

That still doesn't excuse him from casually announcing without telling him prior that he's never going to play for England again.

Walcott and Johnson both looked pretty dangerous to me especially Walcott who in my opinion did read the game pretty well sending in quite a few good front post balls that no one got onto because there wasn't enough movement. He also picked out Johnson very well after getting to the byline and he should have scored.

I'm not doubting that Walcott is capable of these things. He definitely is capable of getting past defenders and putting in good balls but he doesn't do it often enough. He should be looking to break quickly, use his pace and get at defenders more often than he actually does.

Also think that you're overrating Cole by quite alot as well. He's not played consistently for two years and hasn't doing anything of note in an England shirt in his career.

I'd disagree there. At World Cup 2006, he was one of the stand out performers alongside Hargreaves. He has a greater ability to make things happen though, and does it more often than any other wide options. Realistically, Joe Cole shouldn't be the best on option out wide but that's the problem England have at the moment. They are clearly lacking quality players all over the pitch.

The player who really shone for me was Zamora, he held up the ball extremely well, linked up with his team mates well and when he had the opportunity got a couple of extremely good shots/headers. Goalkeeper had to make two great saves against Zamora, especially the one where he tipped it just over the bar (even though the ref gave a goalkick ) and from his header at the back post.

I agree that Zamora did very well when he came on. He clearly does a better job than Heskey in the target man role. He won all the arial battles that I can remember and linked up well with others. The thing is, I don't think England should be aiming to play a target man in their side if they want to compete with the other top nations.

 

[MasterBlaster76]

That still doesn't excuse him from casually announcing without telling him prior that he's never going to play for England again.

Walcott and Johnson both looked pretty dangerous to me especially Walcott who in my opinion did read the game pretty well sending in quite a few good front post balls that no one got onto because there wasn't enough movement. He also picked out Johnson very well after getting to the byline and he should have scored.

Also think that you're overrating Cole by quite alot as well. He's not played consistently for two years and hasn't doing anything of note in an England shirt in his career.

The player who really shone for me was Zamora, he held up the ball extremely well, linked up with his team mates well and when he had the opportunity got a couple of extremely good shots/headers. Goalkeeper had to make two great saves against Zamora, especially the one where he tipped it just over the bar (even though the ref gave a goalkick ) and from his header at the back post.

Zamora surprised me - I thought he did very well indeed.

@Dr Pepper: Regarding England not having a target man, that has always been one of our strengths - even back in Euro 96 with Shearer, and we competed quite well with the top nations in that tournament.

@Themer: As for Joe Cole not doing anything in an England shirt - you must be forgetting the 2006 World Cup and this little gem in particular.

 

[War]

Brown is defensively excellent. If it wasn't for injuries he'd be a definite starter in the United and England side. Let's not forget two seasons ago when he was one of the best defenders in the league. How many top teams at the World Cup used one attacking, and one supporting fullback? Spain did with Ramos and Capdevilla. Brazil did with Maicon and Bastos. Germany did with Lahm and Boaeteng (sp?). The point is, two attacking fullbacks aren't necessary. When you have one attacking fullback offering width (basically becoming a winger in attack), whilst the left sided attacker cuts inside (where Joe Cole should be), you have one more attacking player. Then The right back does not need to go forward too. He can create a three man defence and be wary on the counter, whilst still if the ball switches flanks he can come forward and play the ball.

I think you are over-rating how good Brown is defensively. Sure he had a good season 2 years back playing RB for United mainly. But for England he has always looked average defensively, even during the WCQs.

I definately agree that its not important to have both full-backs charging forward. But as i said both Brown & Johnson are equally bad defensively @ international level. If Hargreaves had come back fit in time, his ability to play @ RB which he did so well for United & Munich would i think forced Capello into playing him @ RB.

Against lower teams England can get away with it. But look at Hungary's goal. There was too much space between defence and midfield. This is because Barry was playing as a classic central midfielder than a holder. There was a huge gap in the World Cup too which Germany so easily exploited. On the counter they look so susceptible with everyone except Terry and the other centreback staying back, and Terry is hardly bundled with pace.

Admittedly Barry aint the most aggressive DM. He can barely passin that role. But as his best during WCQs, that space that was exposed vs Germany was not seen. Plus the fact that during WCQ, England played 4-2-3-1 & in the Germany game played 4-4-2.

I'm surprised that Richards wasn't selected tbh. He's defensively sound, very physical and plays the supporting right back role quite well.

Nah can't pick him ATM. Since the last time he played for England on that shameful night in 07 vs Croatia. He has gone awol @ City, loosing his focus on football & not getting much of starting time for City.

No doubt he has all the natural skill, but he needs to get back his mojo.

Walcott may be injury plagued but how much is that going to affect his reading of the game? He should still know where to go and what to do even if he's injured. If he learns to understand the game better then he can become a very effective player. Look how much Nani improved just by becoming a bit more inteligent on the field. But there's still plenty of time for Walcott to improve.

Injuries can do alot of things. Look at how bad Torres & Rooney played during the WC.

There is a huge technical and metal difference between Adam Johnson and Joe Cole. Cole is technically excellent, and in terms of creating chances he's much better than Johnson.

Yea no debate. But as we both know, Cole's "best: position has divided opinioon for both club & country since his early days @ Chelsea under Mourinho.

Thats why i suggested maybe Capello wants to see him play in set position @ Liverpool before recalling him.

War added 7 Minutes and 28 Seconds later...

I thought Johnson showed a lot of quality and I want to see more of him at this level. Walcott was a constant threat and even delivered one or two decent crosses!.

No offence my friend. But what more of him do we need to see. We have seen him in WCQs & the WC. Its clear as day he is good going forward - but againts top teams vs a quality left-winger (the game vs Germany) his poor defensivelyy qualities is horrifically exposed.

England need a new right-back.

I agree that Zamora did very well when he came on. He clearly does a better job than Heskey in the target man role. He won all the arial battles that I can remember and linked up well with others. The thing is, I don't think England should be aiming to play a target man in their side if they want to compete with the other top nations.

I sort of agree with this Pepper. But the porblem isn't necessarily playing a "target man" - but having a tall striker in the box. Most teams/managers like that tall+short combo of strikers & i think Capello is one of those managers.

But ATM i think Rooney should be given a chance to play up front by himself for England. If he struggles initially in EURO qualifying - we can always partner him with Zamora.

 

[Dr. Pepper]

I sort of agree with this Pepper. But the porblem isn't necessarily playing a "target man" - but having a tall striker in the box. Most teams/managers like that tall+short combo of strikers & i think Capello is one of those managers.

But ATM i think Rooney should be given a chance to play up front by himself for England. If he struggles initially in EURO qualifying - we can always partner him with Zamora.

The problem is not the player Zamora or the partnership with Rooney, the problem is what it does to the team. Zamora played well and I don't doubt he'd put in consistently solid performances for England, the problem is that England would just start "hoofing it up to the big man". The whole team seem to lack the control to hold onto possession and wait until a good pass is available. If they can't immediately find a good pass, they just boot it up. Heskey had a decent World Cup but the team ended up just playing poor long balls to him. They need to learn to control possession more and be more patient on the ball.

I'd rather see Gerrard playing as a roaming attacker, just deeper than Rooney, rather than a Rooney + Zamora combination because of what it does to the team. However, for Gerrard to be effective, England need a solid defensive base. This is what Mourinho said about Sneijder's role at Inter: ?He [Sneijder] comes into a team that is really strong in the tactical point of view, and behind him there is a structure that can give him the freedom he likes to play. So we can say: ?Is he a midfielder?? Sometimes I think he is a striker.? He can incredibly effective in that role, but needs a solid base behind him to be able to perform his role.

 

[War]

The problem is not the player Zamora or the partnership with Rooney, the problem is what it does to the team. Zamora played well and I don't doubt he'd put in consistently solid performances for England, the problem is that England would just start "hoofing it up to the big man". The whole team seem to lack the control to hold onto possession and wait until a good pass is available. If they can't immediately find a good pass, they just boot it up. Heskey had a decent World Cup but the team ended up just playing poor long balls to him. They need to learn to control possession more and be more patient on the ball.

Yes very good point. With a target man, it does indeed encourage long ball football. We need to move on from that, since for years now when under pressure in big games, ENG always resort to useless long-ball football. We neevr try to be patient & find the killer pass.

But on second though, if that 'tall striker" is skillful like a Torres, Henry, Zlatan, Van Persie - long ball football necessarily wont have to be played. Heskey was a old-fashion target man in every sense of the word. But Zamora looks like he could offer a more consistent goal-scoring threat @ international level.

Plus you got talented young talent striker in Wickham & Andy Caroll around that may be partnering Rooney in the coming years so we shall see.

I'd rather see Gerrard playing as a roaming attacker, just deeper than Rooney, rather than a Rooney + Zamora combination because of what it does to the team. However, for Gerrard to be effective, England need a solid defensive base. This is what Mourinho said about Sneijder's role at Inter: ?He [Sneijder] comes into a team that is really strong in the tactical point of view, and behind him there is a structure that can give him the freedom he likes to play. So we can say: ?Is he a midfielder?? Sometimes I think he is a striker.? He can incredibly effective in that role, but needs a solid base behind him to be able to perform his role.

Yep. But unfortunately England dont have the mid-fielders who can supply that solid base behind Gerrard ATM.

Hargreaves/Barry could have been that combo. But obviously since we dont know Hargreaves future, we can't consider him. Jack Rodwell/Emmanuel Frimprong could be that DM combo for the future (but of course Frimprong needs to be convinced to play for ENG).

 

[Dr. Pepper]

Yes very good point. With a target man, it does indeed encourage long ball football. We need to move on from that, since for years now when under pressure in big games, ENG always resort to useless long-ball football. We neevr try to be patient & find the killer pass.

But on second though, if that 'tall striker" is skillful like a Torres, Henry, Zlatan, Van Persie - long ball football necessarily wont have to be played. Heskey was a old-fashion target man in every sense of the word. But Zamora looks like he could offer a more consistent goal-scoring threat @ international level.

Plus you got talented young talent striker in Wickham & Andy Caroll around that may be partnering Rooney in the coming years so we shall see.

Zamora could be good on the ball but whether he is or isn't doesn't matter. The English players have the mentality that if the player up top is big, then all they can do is hoof it up to him. It's just their natural thinking.

Yep. But unfortunately England dont have the mid-fielders who can supply that solid base behind Gerrard ATM.

Hargreaves/Barry could have been that combo. But obviously since we dont know Hargreaves future, we can't consider him. Jack Rodwell/Emmanuel Frimprong could be that DM combo for the future (but of course Frimprong needs to be convinced to play for ENG).

Yeah Frimpong has really impressed me in pre-season, and Wenger has already said that he should be playing for England. Rodwell's been consistently very good last season as well. But at the moment it's unfair to put so much pressure on them to step up.

 

[Dr. Pepper]

Blackpool 4-0 up at Wigan! Absolutely incredible. Ian Holloway you legend.

 

[shravi]

What a performance from Villa. Albrighton was brilliant, as were Young and Milner. Total and utter destruction. They were just toying with Wet Ham by the end of it.

 

[War]

Zamora could be good on the ball but whether he is or isn't doesn't matter. The English players have the mentality that if the player up top is big, then all they can do is hoof it up to him. It's just their natural thinking.

Yep. Our players definately need to trained out of that horrible mentally thats existed for decades now.

Yeah Frimpong has really impressed me in pre-season, and Wenger has already said that he should be playing for England. Rodwell's been consistently very good last season as well. But at the moment it's unfair to put so much pressure on them to step up.

I'd say its worth the gamble pushing Rodwell, Germany backed Khederia & look where he is now. Got to back the youngsters..

Frimpong technically is still an unknown since he wants to play for Ghana one day ATM, so he still needs to be convinced to switch to us.