English Football Thread 2012/2013

[JBlues08]

Super weekend for us: Arsenal and Chelsea both losing - now the gap is down to two points - and even better than that, we're rediscovering our ability to score the late, late goals.

I think it'll be a good time to play them - they lost three on the bounce before this weekend, didn't they?

You were right about Liverpool then - right to be cautious.

If going by results, then we are probably worry about you overtaking us. Performance wise, not quite though. Even we have not played as well as we could in recent weeks.

And yeah, Manchester City lost 3 on the spin prior to this weekend.

J-Psychic added 9 Minutes and 44 Seconds later...

I think that Chelsea are seriously missing Lampard. Zhirkov, Ramires and Essien are all fantastic players but they don't offer what Lampard does. His amazing ability to drop deep from attacks and yet at the same time offer driving runs into the box is crucial to the way they play.

As for being cautious about Liverpool, if it wasn't for two spectacular moments by Torres, I'm sure Hodgson would've once again got a lot of stick for being too negative. They can't rely on the flair of Torres or Gerrard every week, and that is the problem with how they play. When you play so deep and narrow, it's difficult to get players forward without completely ruining their shape and therefore Torres is left isolated, and they can't form chances.

Have to agree with you about Lampard. I'm pretty surprised that he is taking so long to recover from an injury. It might be the age factor in this case. In the 3 games that we have dropped points this season, we have failed to score. That is a little bit worrying. Having said that, I feel some of the players are still not playing at their best like Drogba. So far this season, he hasn't really had any great game.

As for Liverpool, Hodgson might get a bit stick but even a draw against the league leaders and Champions is not a disaster result for them. After all, he is just doing what is best to stop and try to beat us. Torres's second goal really came at a wrong time for us.

 

[mattfb]

Southport 2-5 Sheffield Wednesday
Rochdale 2-3 FC United of Manchester

Two of the best games I've watched recently. Forza lower league sides.

 

[Left_Hander]

Saw Everton's last gasp goal to tie the game against Bolton. It was a cracker of a goal!

 

[mattfb]

I don't say this often, but Lucas was brilliant today. Great vision, great in possession, good tackles, good passes. It was just one of those days for him.

It's a shame he was useless today.

 

[MasterBlaster76]

Dull, dire, dreadful game tonight at Eastlands - possibly the worst Manchester Derby I've ever seen. Decent result - at least we didn't lose, but we should've won; I reckon if we'd pushed them a bit more in the second half we would've won. Still, Chelsea and Liverpool both lost there, so in that regard it was a decent night's work.

 

[JBlues08]

Dull, dire, dreadful game tonight at Eastlands - possibly the worst Manchester Derby I've ever seen. Decent result - at least we didn't lose, but we should've won; I reckon if we'd pushed them a bit more in the second half we would've won. Still, Chelsea and Liverpool both lost there, so in that regard it was a decent night's work.

With Mancini being defensive minded in games like this, there is a possibility for this to happen.

J-Psychic added 10 Minutes and 37 Seconds later...

It was close but a deserved victory over Fulham. Should have scored more than just the one goal considering that we dominated the first half. Kalou had 3 good goalscoring opportunities but taken none of them and I have to say, he is pretty frustrating at times. He sometimes dribbles too much when he could have crossed the ball and tends to miss good goalscoring opportunities which other strikers would have scored it most of the time.

As for Essien's red card, I thought it was harsh for him to get a straight red card. Yes, it was a two footed challenge and there is always a risk when it happens but he was certainly going for the ball and didn't catch Dempsey's foot. Furthermore, Essien is not a player who tackles and tries to hurt others. Anyway, I just hope Ancelotti appeals against the red card and see what happens.

 

[Dr. Pepper]

Neither team had a spark. City sat deep, defender very well as a unit. Utd pressed well and forced City into long balls back to the Utd defenders. Neither team looked like winning, but Utd were the better side. A clear lack of creativity from both sides, but it was good to see Carrick finally have a good game.

 

[Themer]

but it was good to see Carrick finally have a good game.

Huh?

I took the opposite view I'm afraid. The only positive part of his performance was his ball retention as his passing game seems completely shot at the moment, severely lacking confidence in his game at the moment. Wasn't overtly impressed by his tracking back either.

Scholes had an off game as well which resulted in our lack of creativity. Major problem for United at the moment is us going forward as Fletcher isn't that type of player neither is Carrick particularly. Such a shame that we didn't get Ozil in the summer.

 

[Dr. Pepper]

Huh?

I took the opposite view I'm afraid. The only positive part of his performance was his ball retention as his passing game seems completely shot at the moment, severely lacking confidence in his game at the moment. Wasn't overtly impressed by his tracking back either.

Scholes had an off game as well which resulted in our lack of creativity. Major problem for United at the moment is us going forward as Fletcher isn't that type of player neither is Carrick particularly. Such a shame that we didn't get Ozil in the summer.

Carrick actually completed 59 out of 61 passes and he was very much looking to pass forwards most of the time. Recently his game has been to pretty much just not lose the ball. Last night he was often looking for a pass forwards to take the ball into a better area. He also made 7 interceptions - which is a pretty fantastic stat considering and testament to Carrick's brilliant positioning skills. City definitely had the greater strength in midfield but Utd had the more positionally astute players.

 

[Themer]

Carrick actually completed 59 out of 61 passes and he was very much looking to pass forwards most of the time.

Although he may have completed such a high number of those passes barely any of them were more than simple passes to Fletcher and more commonly Scholes. As I said his ball retention is pretty awesome but he's not really your Fletcher type player who bombs up and down the field getting stuck in neither is he a defensive enforcer or even a Scholes like playmaker. Really don't rate him that highly at all.

 

[Dr. Pepper]

I can understand why you don't rate Carrick but I think he's a brilliant player whose massively under-rated. As you said, his ball retention is great and he is a greatly reliable passer. He has more to his game than that though. He may not be as dynamic a tackler as Fletcher, but he can be as equally as good defensively. He has excellent positioning skills and reads the game very well, and intercepts a lot of balls as a result of this.

A lot of teams use a tackler/passer/creator trio. Liverpool used it with mascherano/Alonso/Gerrard. Arsenal use it with Song/Denilson/Fabregas. There must be a reason as to why Wenger plays Denilson, and why Utd play Carrick. They have an excellent reading of the game, and dictate the midfield without needing to do anything special.

 

[Themer]

and why Utd play Carrick.

United haven't been playing Carrick of late though to be fair.

 

[JBlues08]

A peaceful time at the club; no more changes in manager, no player revolts, good team spirit and everybody is happy at the club. AND suddenly, Ray Wilkins was asked to leave the club after his contract wasn't renewed! Has the board gone mad?! Wilkins was crucial to our campaign last season and is a great number 2 to us. He speaks Italian fluently and is close to the players and fans. I think if it wasn't for Ray Wilkins, Carlo Ancelotti wouldn't have settled in so fast as he is obviously the link between the manager, staff and the players.

From what I've read, Carlo Ancelotti was powerless to prevent this from happening. If that is true, then whoever is behind this better give a good reason! I suspect Roman had a say in this but nonetheless, they better give a good explanation for this!

At the moment, I would prefer either Zola or Steve Clarke to become Ancelotti's number 2. Having said that, I'm not too sure about whether Zola is the right man for this or not. He is the club's legend but I'm not really convinced. As for Steve Clarke, I wouldn't mind him. The only thing I'm worry about him is whether he can speak Italian! I also read that Ancelotti might bring in Maldini as his number 2 IF he is given the power to do so. If that happens, I'm gonna bang my head to the wall! I don't think he is the right man. He doesn't even the know players and I doubt he can speak and understand English, let alone communicate the language fluently! Also, I don't think he has a great knowledge of the football in England.

Just hoping for a good replacement and get on with it rather than making a big fuss out of it.

 

[Themer]

A lot of teams use a tackler/passer/creator trio. Liverpool used it with mascherano/Alonso/Gerrard

On this point Alonso plays in a completely different way to Carrick in terms of the type of balls he plays. Alonso is alot more likely to look for a forward ball himself than merely relaying it to the creator (or Gerrard) unlike Carrick.

Additionally I would pose that Alonso also has the ability to tackle to a much higher level than Carrick can.

 

[Dr. Pepper]

United haven't been playing Carrick of late though to be fair.

Yeah that's true but that's been down to two reasons really:

a) Carrick's form suffered a serious dip towards the end of last season, and he was pretty much instantly labelled as "████". When you have that much pressure on you, it's tough to get back to form.

b) Utd's system of playing Rooney as the attacking spearhead, and Berbatov in the free role behind him has worked very well (even throughout Rooney's bad patch), and that means that a central midfielder has to be dropped. Fletcher offers a great dynamic game which adds to an already potent attacking threat against teams which Utd expect to beat.

However, Carrick started against Chelsea in the community shield (I don't buy the argument that it's just another friendly), he started against City. These are the major games in the season and Fergie started with Carrick. He obviously has some kind of ability that means he plays in the big games, and that is his reliable passing; ball retention; positioning and space creation for Scholes.

Park and Carrick tend to start together when Scholes is playing. What Carrick and Park both do is, is create space for Scholes to work in. Park has an endless amount of stamina but also has fantastic off the ball movement. He has the ability to always be in key areas, drawing defenders away from the creative players and still be in the right position defensively. Carrick doesn't have the dynamism of Park, but has the positional skills to draw oppositon players away and create space.

On this point Alonso plays in a completely different way to Carrick in terms of the type of balls he plays. Alonso is alot more likely to look for a forward ball himself than merely relaying it to the creator (or Gerrard) unlike Carrick.

Additionally I would pose that Alonso also has the ability to tackle to a much higher level than Carrick can.

Fair point, it wasn't the best example, but I was trying to get forward the idea of the destroyer/linker/creator combination. Perhaps in the early part of his career - when he first joined Utd and at Spurs - Carrick played a more assertive passing game, but he's tailored his game to Utd's needs. His reliable passing game is very important to the way United play.

Alonso is an all round better player than Carrick tbh. In terms of positioning, I think that Alonso is the best in the world. That's not to say Carrick is a bad player though. In fact, both Alonso and Xavi have stated how good Carrick is, and that he should've played for England at the world cup. Those are the best ball playing midfielders in the world, so praise from them must be good!