English Football Thread 2012/2013

[Epic]

Perhaps other teams are beginning to 'find City out'? Remember guys, winning the first one is one thing, continuing the success - now that's the mark of a truly great team.

One thing's for sure, for City to win the league, Utd will have to once again fritter away a sizeable lead. In that regard, history is with us, along with the usual stuff about the team being top at Christmas. However, we can't take it for granted; something has to change in our defensive play! Twenty eight goals conceded is far too much for potential champions.

I feel a 7 point lead is quite big at this stage, especially with all our strikers out of form and not scoring, seriously can't see us catching up.

 

[War]

well the thing is as many goals as united concede, how many points clear are they?

they are winning games. if they changed their side they would probably score less, who is to say whether they would even pick up the same amount of points?

United don't need to change their style really. We have seen them play 4-4-1-1 & 4-3-1-2 (diamond) fairly effectively this season.

But if the they play 4-4-1-1, it illogical to play three of their slowest players in Scholes/Carrick/Giggs in the same team in such a formation. It an unnecessary risk that makes the defense , regardless of the fact that their strikers are doing an amazing job of recovering games for them.

They may very well and get away with in in the premiership & win the title, but i can't see them being so lucky in europe - especially now that madrid are their first test.

Sir Alex just needs to be smarter with how he sets up his mid-field:

- dont play carricks/scholes in a 4-4-1-1. They are top passers blah blah, but every time they play together this seasons & they loose the ball, teams run through united wayyy too easy & attack the defense.

- if scholes is gonna play, carrick can't play or visa versa.

- when scholes plays, only do it in a 3-man mid-field since his legs are totally gone now. He needs to two runners next to him (cleverley, fletcher, anderson, jones, kagawa - choose any two when fit) like how pirlo has de rossi/vidal/marchisio for club & country to do the running for him, while he does his playmaking.

- stop playing giggs on the left, especially in a 4-4-1-1. He is 39 sir alex, not 29

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I feel a 7 point lead is quite big at this stage, especially with all our strikers out of form and not scoring, seriously can't see us catching up.

City's problems i guess comes down to toure not being himself for a few months - when last has he made those trademark mad man runs to leaves 3-4 players scrambling to catch him?

Their summer signs being very average. Rodwell is much hyped english player, but he hasn't settled. I recall him making two bad back passes in a two games that resulted in goals.

Javi Garcia has just faded away & sinclair was just a token english signing to be frank. City don't have a plan b if their tricky little quarter of tevez, aguero, nasri, silva can't break you down. Selling Johnson is looking a bit daft now.

Overall though i think Mancini really wanted to play 3-5-2 this season like what his going on in his native italy with some of the top teams. But certain players in the current squad haven't stepped up well to play this formation & he probably didn't exactly get the sign the players he wanted.

 

[ste_mc_efc]

the thin with toure is his physicality is a threat on his own. he isn't unfit and doesn't seem to be carrying an injury, so while he could be out form in terms of his technical ability that shouldn't have any bearing on whether he makes runs that cause mayhem, although they can be less dangerous, obviously.

So if you aren't seeing those runs the issue isn't so much one of form, more that his mindset isn't correctly attuned to make them so he either isn't spotting the opportunities, or he is spotting them and being either too lazy to make them or is choosing not to make them, be that due to their tactical set up and how much license he is being given or he lacks confidence

 

[Epic]

City's problems i guess comes down to toure not being himself for a few months - when last has he made those trademark mad man runs to leaves 3-4 players scrambling to catch him?

Their summer signs being very average. Rodwell is much hyped english player, but he hasn't settled. I recall him making two bad back passes in a two games that resulted in goals.

Javi Garcia has just faded away & sinclair was just a token english signing to be frank. City don't have a plan b if their tricky little quarter of tevez, aguero, nasri, silva can't break you down. Selling Johnson is looking a bit daft now.

Overall though i think Mancini really wanted to play 3-5-2 this season like what his going on in his native italy with some of the top teams. But certain players in the current squad haven't stepped up well to play this formation & he probably didn't exactly get the sign the players he wanted.

Away to Real Madrid in the CL.

Such a woeful Summer for us, we were linked with the likes of De Rossi, Javi Martinez, Eden Hazard and Thiago Silva, all only to end up with the likes of Garcia, Rodwell, Maicon, Sinclair and Wright.

We did have a "plan B" though, release Dzeko and just have the fullbacks just pummel the other team with crosses, the problem now is all our very attack minded full backs(Clichy, Kolarov, Richards and Maicon) are out injured.

The 3-5-2 really does make sense now though. At first everyone was saying "oh oh, if it ain't broke don't fix it", well I'm guessing Mancini knew it was going to break down and that the other sides were going to figure it out...

the thin with toure is his physicality is a threat on his own. he isn't unfit and doesn't seem to be carrying an injury, so while he could be out form in terms of his technical ability that shouldn't have any bearing on whether he makes runs that cause mayhem, although they can be less dangerous, obviously.

So if you aren't seeing those runs the issue isn't so much one of form, more that his mindset isn't correctly attuned to make them so he either isn't spotting the opportunities, or he is spotting them and being either too lazy to make them or is choosing not to make them, be that due to their tactical set up and how much license he is being given or he lacks confidence

Well the last time I saw him make his trademark run was against Real Madrid at the Bernabau and IIRC he was playing behind the striker then(Tevez up front with Aguero and Dzeko on the bench), so I'm thinking it might be a tactical call from Mancini not to do so.

 

[MasterBlaster76]

- stop playing giggs on the left, especially in a 4-4-1-1. He is 39 sir alex, not 29

Ummm yeah, that's bewildering as well. Giggsy can still do a job in midfield pulling the strings, but box to box? Come on Sir Alex, take a step back eh?

Edit: Is this the first time that Aguero/Tevez as the starting partnership have lost?

 

[Epic]

Is this the first time that Aguero/Tevez as the starting partnership have lost?

Yep.

 

[Lee1981]

Gotta say fair play to utd, they just never know when to give up, I hate them for it, but you gotta respect that until that whistle goes there is no team like them who are so relentless at winning at the death.

Also, we'll done Rafa, we are slowly re building, although we won't win the title it's nice to maybe be in the mix again

Hope all the pathetic Chelsea fans get off his back and let him do his job now

 

[ste_mc_efc]

Gotta say fair play to utd, they just never know when to give up, I hate them for it, but you gotta respect that until that whistle goes there is no team like them who are so relentless at winning at the death.

Also, we'll done Rafa, we are slowly re building, although we won't win the title it's nice to maybe be in the mix again

Hope all the pathetic Chelsea fans get off his back and let him do his job now

it's crazy really, a lot of fans are (quite rightfully) a bit annoyed at the farcical changing of managers every 6 months.

so they want the new manager out as a solution to that. counter-intuitive, really.

 

[Haarithan]

Don't even know where to begin regarding yesterday's loss - it was the performance that was more embarrassing than the defeat itself. Suarez as always the lone warrior showing determination.

Seen so many of you hyping Jonjo Shelvey here, and I thought yesterday was a good reality check as to where he really stands - Championship material.

Nice to see Gerrard back in the scoring mix though - 3 in 3 for him now. And hey, we finally managed to win a penalty after 31 games!!!

 

[War]

Seen so many of you hyping Jonjo Shelvey here, and I thought yesterday was a good reality check as to where he really stands - Championship material.

Seems a bit harsh mr haari..

 

[MasterBlaster76]

Gotta say fair play to utd, they just never know when to give up, I hate them for it, but you gotta respect that until that whistle goes there is no team like them who are so relentless at winning at the death.

Also, we'll done Rafa, we are slowly re building, although we won't win the title it's nice to maybe be in the mix again

Hope all the pathetic Chelsea fans get off his back and let him do his job now

Also, either it's my imagination, or Torres is beginning to improve rapidly. Can't be a coincidence: Rafa knew how to get great things out of Torres at Liverpool. You were only one goal off our Premiership whacking of Ipswich.

Aston Villa though.... what's happened to them?

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Seems a bit harsh mr haari..

Agreed - Shelvey looks a decent player to me. One bad game doesn't make him 'Championship material'.

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it's crazy really, a lot of fans are (quite rightfully) a bit annoyed at the farcical changing of managers every 6 months.

so they want the new manager out as a solution to that. counter-intuitive, really.

You've only got to look at the situation (or lack of one) at Utd over the past twenty five years. Continuity brings success - sometimes you just have to give a guy a bit of a go. Unfortunately for Chelsea, that's not how Mr Roman thinks and I doubt whether the Man City owners are all that different.

 

[Dr. Pepper]

Shelvey looks good about a third of the time. Clearly talented but too much faith has been put in him too soon.

As for Utd, Scholes and Giggs should never play together again. Just can't control a midfield with both of them together unfortunately, we struggle with just one of them these days tbh. Carrick showing once again just how indispensible he is to the team.

If Anderson is on his way out then another central midfielder is a necessity to cover when Cleverley/Carrick aren't available. I have no idea why we're linked with Lewandowski so much atm.

 

[Haarithan]

Re Shelvey: One bad game? He's gone missing for the best part of the Premiership this season. His only good game was against Man United, where he managed to get himself sent off before halftime. All four goals of his this season have been against rookie opponents in the Europa League.

Slow, technically poor, terrible first touch and a very poor game intelligence. Barely even offers anything imo. Rodgers does seem to have a complex for him though, which's sad - trusts him too much for absolutely nothing.

 

[War]

Re Shelvey: One bad game? He's gone missing for the best part of the Premiership this season. His only good game was against Man United, where he managed to get himself sent off before halftime. All four goals of his this season have been against rookie opponents in the Europa League.

Slow, technically poor, terrible first touch and a very poor game intelligence. Barely even offers anything imo. Rodgers does seem to have a complex for him though, which's sad - trusts him too much for absolutely nothing.

Hmm well i am not being biased to him as a young english player when i say this, but i don't think he has displayed what you said in bold my friend, when i have watched him this year in the league.

He is not fast yea, but i don't think he is technically poor, has poor first touch at all. I'd say he is on the same level to cleverley & that game when suarez was injured (i think vs west ham) when he played as striker, he showed pretty decent game intelligence in that role.

The only clear poor game i recall from him was vs newcastle when i think he came on as sub and missed to great chances to win the game for pool.

 

[Haarithan]

when he played as striker, he showed pretty decent game intelligence in that role.

He wasn't terrific on that night, but I'll agree on this. He does often tend to get into very good positions but it's his decision making following that, that lets him down. Certainly not at the same level of Cleverley as yet, imo.

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Anyway Liverpool's worst 3 number of points achieved in a half-season (19 games) in a 20-team league have all come over the last three years:

Roy Hodgson 25 pts (2010-11, first 19 games)
Kenny Dalglish 18 pts (2011-12, last 19 games)
Brendan Rodgers 25 pts (2012-13, first 19 games)