ICC Cricket World Cup - May/July 2019

Who will be crowned the ODI World Champion?


  • Total voters
    50
  • Poll closed .

Thoughts?

STFU ICC! Might want to concentrate on matters that actually pertain to you i.e the umpiring and the absence of reserve days.
 
I think the South African Board did the right thing by not selecting de Villiers in the World Cup squad. Personally feel that he has been highly selfish if it is indeed true that he put himself up for selection at the very last moment, after having left the team in a precarious situation and having played a grand total of zero List A games since his retirement. The ‘tired’ AbD himself who claimed that he had no plans to play overseas t20 leagues and hoped to be available for Titans in domestic cricket has also not played a single first class match either since he retired. And if he did receive the offer to plan his season ahead and only play in the home series’ versus Sri Lanka and Pakistan for him to be selected (with all due respect to them, neither should have been a huge challenge to South Africa, although Karunaratne had other ideas :p) as claimed by the board, it makes his actions look even more strange. Wonder what the man himself has to respond to these, given that Kallis himself retired from tests to focus exclusively on ODIs towards the end of his career.
 

This is absolute bullshit. Cottrell does his military salute every game after a wicket or catch and dedicates it to his buddies in the Jamaican defence force, wonder what the ICC has to say about that. :facepalm
 
Had my doubts over Starc getting back into form after his recent fitness concerns and general lack of game time with the white ball, but he’s thoroughly proved me wrong today. What a phenomenal performance from him. :clap
 
I think the South African Board did the right thing by not selecting de Villiers in the World Cup squad. Personally feel that he has been highly selfish if it is indeed true that he put himself up for selection at the very last moment, after having left the team in a precarious situation and having played a grand total of zero List A games since his retirement. The ‘tired’ AbD himself who claimed that he had no plans to play overseas t20 leagues and hoped to be available for Titans in domestic cricket has also not played a single first class match either since he retired. And if he did receive the offer to plan his season ahead and only play in the home series’ versus Sri Lanka and Pakistan for him to be selected (with all due respect to them, neither should have been a huge challenge to South Africa, although Karunaratne had other ideas :p) as claimed by the board, it makes his actions look even more strange. Wonder what the man himself has to respond to these, given that Kallis himself retired from tests to focus exclusively on ODIs towards the end of his career.

First of all, AB had retired from test match cricket, to focus on this ongoing WC. It's a dream that he has had shattered thrice in the past. Do NOT forget, the 2015 which they should have won (they beat the world champions earlier in their own den) he as captain was forced to pick Philander in the semi final over an Abbott who had performed very well through the tournament and bowled an exceptional spell in the preceding quarter final.

Then, when Gibson becomes coach and under Du Plessis' leadership, they persuade him to come back to the test arena (foreshadowing his obvious requirement in two marquee series against India & Australia) and shed the leadership in limited overs to unburden him. He agrees and plays a pivotal role in both test series, easily being SA best batsman on tracks the world recognised as incredibly difficult.

After these series, he's injured and because of the desperately poor show against wrist spin is rushed back into the side. The alarm bells start to go off here. He requests to play the T20 leagues and be relieved off the meaningless bilateral series. When the board tells him he must play against SL and PAK as they will act as the basis for being selected in the WC squad is where I believe the relationship between the board and him became terminal.

To be straight forward, I think AB is also to blame in part for this current situation but I think the share of blame majorly lies with the board. Why?

1) We as Indians, rightly so, hail Dravid's sacrifice to keep wickets for India as one of his great contributions. When Mark Boucher got injured, AB did the same. To stress on my point, he was for the longest time the Kohli & the Dhoni for South Africa. Now, at 35, after having established himself he rightfully expects to be treated differently. I ask you, do you know how many List A game MSD plays? None. He doesn't even play tests. AB had quit, but fell into the persuasions and if you follow his twitter and read his auto-biography, he's an emotional catholic and it will only take lines such as "answer the call for the rainbow nation." And from the "I'm tired" he can very quickly go to "I'm ready to play all three formats again." It's just who he is as a human being. I am pretty sure his desire to play the World Cup last moment has to do with having one last crack at his dream and the general feeling that "his country needs him." I am sure his best friends i.e Faf and Dale have been in his ear.

2) The next criticism will be why play the T20 leagues and not the bilateral? He's after money! Sorry, but how many West Indians like Gayle & Russell to sight an example play all year for WI? Did the SA players playing the IPL not harm their World Cup preparations? Do the likes of Dhoni & Kohli need to play in other T20 leagues around the world considering their central contracts and immensely lucrative sponsorship deals? For heaven's sake, Ravi Shastri's central contract was about as lucrative as that of Steve Smith's when he was captain of Australia. The English captain, followed by Bangladesh cricketers made more off their central contracts than the best South African cricketer.

3) Most importantly, is Ab de Villiers still good enough to be part of this line up? YES! Just look at England's selection of Jofra Archer and the ditching of David Wiley. Is it unfair? Perhaps. Is it necessary? Absolutely. Mitchell Starc has played less than 10 ODI's since the CT 2017. He is compensated by CA for not participating in the IPL. Can CSA do so? No. I think it's extremely rich for a board to have a system whereby a certain number of players have to be selected on the basis of the colour of your skin and then have any sort of moral high ground pertaining to the basis of selection.

I don't think the results would have been drastically different with him in the side. Cricket tournaments, specially tournaments of such stature are won by teams and not individuals. He would have provided SA with some sparkling moments and given them a better shot at it, but that's about it. As for AB? I think that semi final at Eden Park will always hurt me and more so him. He might shrug a shoulder and say 'no regrets' but his eyes and his manner of speaking reveal a lot of hurt to this day. It changed him and basically from that moment on, he lost all faith in his cricket board. I think an IPL trophy would not heal the wounds, but perhaps would be a half decent adieu to what can only be described as an absolutely fantastic career and an even better bloke.
 
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By doing this, ICC has just given a lot more publicity to it. I don't understand what the hell is wrong in supporting your country's military and army (as long as it is not implicitly targeting an opponent nation).

But it's surprising that someone like Dhoni is doing this. I am very happy with it, but I am pleasantly surprised that someone like Dhoni who doesn't like getting into controversies is doing it.
 
I think it's always best to keep politics away from cricket because it can always cause problems.
 
I think it's always best to keep politics away from cricket because it can always cause problems.
There is absolutely no politics here. Having a logo of your armed forces on a glove is not politics. Politics is raising an issue out of this and asking someone not to use the logo just because you or someone does not like it.

Everyone wears a black badge or ribbon when something bad happens in any part of the world... is that politics? Its mark of respect and not politics. People need to get that straight.

South Africa wears a pink kit for breast cancer awareness.. should that come under any category? No! Its pathetic to dictate terms for no whatsoever reason.

I would like Dhoni to continue wearing it.
 
There is absolutely no politics here. Having a logo of your armed forces on a glove is not politics. Politics is raising an issue out of this and asking someone not to use the logo just because you or someone does not like it.

Everyone wears a black badge or ribbon when something bad happens in any part of the world... is that politics? Its mark of respect and not politics. People need to get that straight.

South Africa wears a pink kit for breast cancer awareness.. should that come under any category? No! Its pathetic to dictate terms for no whatsoever reason.

I would like Dhoni to continue wearing it.

I don't think MSD did something too wrong and I also don't think ICC did anything too wrong in calling it out.

Black arm bands are usually worn for mourning a cricketer or ex-cricketers death. The one time I remember anyone wore it for political statement was Henry Olonga to mourn death of democracy, and he never played any match after that

The pink kit from south africa is always pre approved by ICC

I don't think the insignia symbol falls in either category and can certainly be considered a political symbol. And I believe the main reason is that this symbol is on the kit, which could be associated with the kit sponsor which sports bodies are usually very strict about. Whether a positive or negative symbol, the kit I think is supposed to have only sponsor logos which are approved by ICC
 
First of all, AB had retired from test match cricket, to focus on this ongoing WC. It's a dream that he has had shattered thrice in the past. Do NOT forget, the 2015 which they should have won (they beat the world champions earlier in their own den) he as captain was forced to pick Philander in the semi final over an Abbott who had performed very well through the tournament and bowled an exceptional spell in the preceding quarter final.

Then, when Gibson becomes coach and under Du Plessis' leadership, they persuade him to come back to the test arena (foreshadowing his obvious requirement in two marquee series against India & Australia) and shed the leadership in limited overs to unburden him. He agrees and plays a pivotal role in both test series, easily being SA best batsman on tracks the world recognised as incredibly difficult.

After these series, he's injured and because of the desperately poor show against wrist spin is rushed back into the side. The alarm bells start to go off here. He requests to play the T20 leagues and be relieved off the meaningless bilateral series. When the board tells him he must play against SL and PAK as they will act as the basis for being selected in the WC squad is where I believe the relationship between the board and him became terminal.

To be straight forward, I think AB is also to blame in part for this current situation but I think the share of blame majorly lies with the board. Why?

1) We as Indians, rightly so, hail Dravid's sacrifice to keep wickets for India as one of his great contributions. When Mark Boucher got injured, AB did the same. To stress on my point, he was for the longest time the Kohli & the Dhoni for South Africa. Now, at 35, after having established himself he rightfully expects to be treated differently. I ask you, do you know how many List A game MSD plays? None. He doesn't even play tests. AB had quit, but fell into the persuasions and if you follow his twitter and read his auto-biography, he's an emotional catholic and it will only take lines such as "answer the call for the rainbow nation." And from the "I'm tired" he can very quickly go to "I'm ready to play all three formats again." It's just who he is as a human being. I am pretty sure his desire to play the World Cup last moment has to do with having one last crack at his dream and the general feeling that "his country needs him." I am sure his best friends i.e Faf and Dale have been in his ear.

2) The next criticism will be why play the T20 leagues and not the bilateral? He's after money! Sorry, but how many West Indians like Gayle & Russell to sight an example play all year for WI? Did the SA players playing the IPL not harm their World Cup preparations? Do the likes of Dhoni & Kohli need to play in other T20 leagues around the world considering their central contracts and immensely lucrative sponsorship deals? For heaven's sake, Ravi Shastri's central contract was about as lucrative as that of Steve Smith's when he was captain of Australia. The English captain, followed by Bangladesh cricketers made more off their central contracts than the best South African cricketer.

3) Most importantly, is Ab de Villiers still good enough to be part of this line up? YES! Just look at England's selection of Jofra Archer and the ditching of David Wiley. Is it unfair? Perhaps. Is it necessary? Absolutely. Mitchell Starc has played less than 10 ODI's since the CT 2017. He is compensated by CA for not participating in the IPL. Can CSA do so? No. I think it's extremely rich for a board to have a system whereby a certain number of players have to be selected on the basis of the colour of your skin and then have any sort of moral high ground pertaining to the basis of selection.

I don't think the results would have been drastically different with him in the side. Cricket tournaments, specially tournaments of such stature are won by teams and not individuals. He would have provided SA with some sparkling moments and given them a better shot at it, but that's about it. As for AB? I think that semi final at Eden Park will always hurt me and more so him. He might shrug a shoulder and say 'no regrets' but his eyes and his manner of speaking reveal a lot of hurt to this day. It changed him and basically from that moment on, he lost all faith in his cricket board. I think an IPL trophy would not heal the wounds, but perhaps would be a half decent adieu to what can only be described as an absolutely fantastic career and an even better bloke.

Fair reply, but I do think AB deserves a lot more blame in this entire fiasco.

  • The quota system isn’t something that the board has invented though. It’s part of the very fabric of the South African government, and is present in other sports too if I’m right. Not sure how the board could do anything with it.
  • What happened in the 2015 WC was a travesty and something that has definitely changed him. But, the board has learnt from it and has got permission to pause the requirements during the phase of the WC alone. This does mean that the Philander decision was due to higher-ups in the government itself as rumoured.
  • AbD could have simply retired from tests and/or t20Is to save himself the hassle. I don’t see the board discriminating against Duminy for retiring from tests two years ago or against Miller who retired from first class cricket several months ago, not to mention the likes of Kallis and Smith choosing to focus on ODIs a few years ago. AbD chose to not retire, and just took his infamous sabbatical. Hell, in 2017 after they got defeated versus England, Faf openly said that he had no issues with AbD picking and choosing his matches at his own will. No other player in South African history has ever had such a privilege.
  • Under such circumstances, if a player still chooses to not retire, the board is obviously going to try and make him play matches as much as possible, especially when they are against the likes of Australia and India and at home.
  • Now the real reason why AbD didn’t retire from one format alone is largely because he signed a 28 million rand deal with MRF, which stated that he must be active in all three formats of the game. That is no small amount of money to forego, and AbD knew that he still had to remain in contention to receive it.
  • This board is poorly managed, and has lost plenty of money, yes. But the South African economy on the whole is in a poor state right now and the board can only afford to pay what it has in it’s coffers right now allocated for players. It wasn’t like AbD earned significantly lesser than others in the team, they all earn the same if not lesser amount of money.
  • Now comparing to the Windies situation, Gayle played in the qualifiers and has been generally playing in ODIs and T20Is whenever possible for them. He doesn’t play all year for them but still at least plays when they most need him, at this age of 39 with longstanding fitness issues. Russell can be criticized, but he was there in the ODI squad to face the Windies and seems to have reconciled his differences with the board.
  • As for the Archer/Willey situation, the ECB have for long indicated that Archer would end up being in contention for the World Cup. They changed their harsher rules to be in line with what the ICC deem necessary and that allowed Archer to be in the team. Also, Archer wasn’t initially selected in the main squad either. He had to prove himself in the ODI series versus Pakistan before he got selected, while Willey showed that he lacked variations to bowl at the death and was only effective with the new ball. I’m not sure how these situations compare.
  • The Dhoni comparison is strange too, he hasn’t ever openly taken a sabbatical and his decision to not play a List A game when he possibly could have has been criticised by many. I don’t understand the IPL comparison either, their board has never wanted him to stop playing in the IPL. All that they wanted him to do was play in two of the five series that they played since IPL 2018, both of which were at home and against two teams who shouldn’t on paper pose any great challenge. At worst, he would have played just 10 ODIs (and that is a big if considering how much the team has to shuffle their players to meet the quota requirements) versus two teams.
  • The criticism that he receives for opting to play in t20 leagues has largely to do with how he announced his retirement. He said that he wanted to play domestic cricket for his team and had no interest in overseas leagues. Yet, he hasn’t played a single game for Titans in fC or List A cricket. In comparison, he has played in three new t20 leagues already, has offered himself to play in another and wants to be a part of the ECB’s brand new horseshit too. Had he simply said that the cricketer’s career is short and he wants to make the most of it like most West Indian players in the past, he wouldn’t have been criticised to this extent.
  • How would you select De Villiers after all of this in the end? This is a player whose last proper 50 overs game was more than a year ago, chose to walk away leaving his country in a very troublesome spot and unlike players like Russell or Smith, wasn’t even involved in the team camps or setup since his retirement. He wanted to walk straight into the WC, and the selectors complying with his demands for the nth time yet again would have set a very dangerous precedent, especially given how it would have meant dropping players who have all stuck by their national duty for the team in contrast.
I agree that their board isn’t entirely blameless here, but I can’t see a scenario under the current facts here where AB de Villiers has been thrown to the wolves or overworked by the board. I’d be very interested to see his responses and thoughts on this matter though.
 
Absolutely funny and rubbish at the same time how ICC is not concerned about umpiring level, bails problem but rather urging to take off Dhoni's gloves. Disgrace.
 
The timing of this whole ABD drama is very poor - during an ongoing tournament. I dont see South Africa making a comeback if this continues. The mood in the dressing room is going to be so unpleasant because of this episode.

How exactly did this start? Who leaked the info that ABD had made himself available for the world cup and was rejected? Any idea?
 
Man , that was bigger than Gayle too ! :eek:

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I would fault Hetmyer for running himself out

It was Hope's call and then he himself rejected.

69(90) is still acceptable but 69(106) seems a bit slower than usual. And Australia were batting in their first innings and we're infact 40/4 so they needed someone to be there atleast for 20-25 overs whereas, when Hope came in he didn't have much pressure. Better rotation of strike would've helped.

Russell for throwing his wicket away at a crucial time.

Agreed. He could've stayed there till the 45th over and then go for the big shot.
 

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