India in England Jun-Sept 2014

[Umair7]

Once More India Is Destroyed Come on England

 

[PokerAce]

Don't remember a series where so many running repairs were required on the pitch.

 

[SaiSrini]

Where has this Anderson/Steyn discussion come from? Steyn is better by almost every statistical measure.

Yet another overseas Test, another lolworthy batting performance, [HASHTAG]#WhatElseIsNew[/HASHTAG]?

Gutsy stuff from Dhoni, and more importantly he's found the right balance between defending and runscoring. His strike rate of around 60 seems ideal for these conditions, but no one in the top order has managed to score at that rate. Vijay can only grind it out for so long until he gets one with his name written on it, Gambhir is probably not Test standard anymore, Pujara and Kohli are horribly out of sorts, Rahane has brainfarts from time to time, and Binny is in the team because fearsome tweak logic and common sense.

You know it's going to be long, long Test when Dhoni is our best batsman.

Dont worry, it wont be a long long test. India can end this in 3 days or less - BY LOSING!

 

[War]

Yeah the finances could have something to do with it, but still the Indian presence in the crowd is just the lowest I remember in Eng.

Also T20 WC is not a world cup ! Its not even serious cricket. Trust me I have seen India lift both the T20 world cup, which is not a a world cup, (its called World T20) and the World Cup and World T20 doesn't compare to the 50 over World Cup. T20 world cup was go to work the next day and excitedly discuss the events at work, much like how you would a good day's test match play vs Aus. However, THE World Cup is at just another galaxy entirely. Its a festival then where for the next 2 days its no work, just pouring out into the streets and lighinting fireworks all night level crazy.

Also winning a World CUp won't push Cricket over Football I know, but it will take cricket higher than its ever been, there cannot be any doubt that.

Before 1983, Cricket was popular, but competing with Hockey. Sure Cricket was more popular even then, but it was still a contest. Once India won '83 it was all cricket from then on. Cricket win at the world cup, with the popularity I am sensing in Eng, will go Eng cricket no end of good and give it a tremendous boost. Atleast establish it as the firm #2 sport

Football here is too dominant in the culture - even if ENG win the world cup, the black UK population won't care & majority of Asians wont either since most of them are IND/PAK fans ha.

The best one could expect is a W-Cup win would send the cricket fanbase, which is large enough into a similar few weeks/months cricket frenzy as the case was when England won Ashes 05. In my lifetime that was the closest when ENG cricketers got similar national hype like the footballers.

 

[Satan666]

No match point on cricinfo, lolz.

 

[PokerAce]

Football here is too dominant in the culture - even if ENG win the world cup, the black UK population won't care & majority of Asians wont either since most of them are IND/PAK fans ha.

The best one could expect is a W-Cup win would send the cricket fanbase, which is large enough into a similar few weeks/months cricket frenzy as the case was when England won Ashes 05. In my lifetime that was the closest when ENG cricketers got similar national hype like the footballers.

When it happens, winning the World Cup, I am sure u will say winning the Ashes was kinda meh!

 

[PokerAce]

No match point on cricinfo, lolz.

The best feature on cricinfo is Tweet Report when they do it. Shame they don't do it often enough.

 

[Skater]

When it happens, winning the World Cup, I am sure u will say winning the Ashes was kinda meh!

I highly doubt that. We don't really 'get' One Day cricket. No World Cup would ever match beating the Aussies.

 

[abhi_jacko]

I highly doubt that. We don't really 'get' One Day cricket. No World Cup would ever match beating the Aussies.

Kind of sad then, isn't it ? Because I am guessing the feeling isn't mutual. Aussies would definitely rate winning the world cup higher than winning the Ashes. They have ofcourse won both of those many times

 

[War]

I said earlier I will share an Anderson stat once the innings ends, well there is a break on so I think I may as well share it. This test started with Cook saying Anderson was the best playing today. Before this also we have had the Steyn Anderson discussion on this forum.

Again I take nothing away from Anderson and indeed the rest of the english bowling this tour, they did well, but having said this, the Indian batting has been so poor than a bunch of Baboons bowling to them would probably have achieved similar results !

The point is Anderson has performed very well in England for the most part, but has very very average figures outside of England. Steyn on the other hand keeps things a constant everywhere.

Lets compare -

Anderson

In Africa - Bowl Avg 38.72 S/R - 65.6
In WI - Bowl Avg. 38.00 S/R - 86.0
In Asia - Bowl Avg 33.45 S/R - 66.6
In Aus - Bowl Avg - 38.44 S/R - 69.3
In NZ - Bowl Avg - 36.27 S/R - 58.6

Now however you look at those numbers, those are not befitting of the Best Bowler playing today. That shows Anderson has for the most part delivered 'only' in Eng. I have not looked but I will not be surprised if in Eng Anderson averages less than 15 or something mental like that ! However, that again shows the point that Anderson has mostly performed on custom made home pitches. Thats not a great bowler. I can recall Kumble who has a mental record in India. However that he picked up most of those wickets on custom made pitches meant he never quite got the respect that the third highest test wicket-taker ever (which he is) would ordinarily get. That was because Kumble was only doing well in India, and an also ran everywhere else (outside Subcontinent). Make no mistake those Anderson figures outside Eng are 'also ran' category. So just as Kumble was labelled a sub-continent bully, Anderson is a Custom made wicket bully.

Steyn

In Africa (Not SA) - Bowl Avg 10.50 S/R - 33.0
In WI - Bowl Avg. 18.13 S/R - 33.0
In Asia - Bowl Avg. - 20.61 S/R - 34.7 (In Asia where he has LEAST help from Pitches !!)
In England - Bowl Avg. - 31.65 S/R - 55.4 (I know its a bit high, but its still lower than anything Anderson has outside Eng)
In Aus - Bowl Avg - 28.3 S/R - 48.1
In NZ - Bowl Avg. - 26.5 S/R - 66.8

That is a super super spread. Super performances everywhere. Personally this ends the debate from my point of view.

The argument an Anderson supporter/backer could say here is that its incorrect to say Anderson performs on custom made pitches, because if that was the case and pitches in England were custom made for Anderson, in England, then Steyn would not be averaging 31.65 in Eng. If Anderson finds a pitch to his liking then Steyn would too. So if pitches were custom made for Anderson then Steyn would also do well on those pitches and not average 31.65 in test matches in Eng.

Well the response to that point is simple too. Its obvious that in the fear of Steyn and Co, Eng didn't prepare wickets to help the seamers. So Steyn had no help from the pitch, but neither did Anderson. This is further backed up by the fact that in the matches at home (in Eng) vs SA, Anderson averages 37.76 !! When Steny and Anderson both avg over 30, its clear evidence that the pitches in those series were made to help Eng bat and not Anderson and more important not Steyn.

So forget not being able to perform away on non-custom made pitches, Anderson cannot even perform in Eng, when the pitches (for fear of the opposition seamer - Steyn), are not custom made to his style !

Ha my friend few ENG fans took Cook's words seriously - even on commentary Hussain, Lloyd & Strauss were not with him. So you didn't to waste your energy trying to hammer home this point.

Only defence i'd give to Anderson is that its a bit unfair to compare his entire career to Steyn. Steyn is a all-time great/arguably best ever S Africa fast bowler. He is one of the few bowlers/cricketers who became very good/world class from every early in his out. Out of Steyn 75 tests, he has been top quality for at least 72. The first 3 vs ENG in 2004, he was young a wild - but when he came back in 2006 he kept getting better.

Anderson is one of many cricketers who has gone through peaks and drop off's in his career. Anderson between 2003-2010 evolved from being average, to a quick who could only get quicks in England/seamers worldwide, to his modern self of an all conditions bowler.

So if one judging Anderson as a complete bowler you really got to from the Brisbane 2010 Ashes test to now, where he has taken: 190 wicketts in 47 tests @ 27 Bowling records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPN Cricinfo. Those figures are a more accurate reflection of Anderson improvement in which he played leading roles in ENGs famous wins in AUS & IND, along with proving he could reverse swing the ball in Asia hence his good performances in UAE & SRI.

With regards to series Anderson/Steyn played in ENG - you might be reading a bit too much into the #'s if you suggest ENG had a fear of steyn & thus didn't prepare seamers.

My recollection of the 2008 & 2012 series would say differently. Of the combined 7 tests across both series, only two were roads (Lords 08 & Oval 2012) most others had normal ENG swing that would have assisted them both. Ok Anderson never owned S Africa on an ENG seamer, it happens - just like how Kohli not scoring hundred vs ENG in ENG this time - even though he has in AUS/SA/NZ. But i recall when ENG toured S Africa in late 2010, Anderson did swing them on a Capetown seamer.

In 2008, Steyn missed 2 tests - his average in ENG is inflated by that lord's 2008 poor test. In 2012 when he played all tests, he showed his worth - so his 30+ average in ENG is a misnomer.

 

[grkrama]

We don't really 'get' One Day trophies.

fixed

Its all well n good to call ourselves purists, but that doesn't stop one from enjoying the different formats.

Right now ODI WC is the only place were teams are tested for good, you will know the hoopla when you guys win, last i heard someone was calling jimmy as steyn afer running through a fragile indian top order on home conditions, imagine winning the World cup

 

[War]

Kind of sad then, isn't it ? Because I am guessing the feeling isn't mutual. Aussies would definitely rate winning the world cup higher than winning the Ashes. They have ofcourse won both of those many times

It depends on the state of AUS cricket. Recently winning the Ashes was a "BIG" deal for AUS, having lost it in 2009 & the little ENG dominance that was builiding. AUS players had a massive celebration by the sydney harbour bridge, meeting the president. That never happened before in a recent ashes.

However when AUS were blasting England routinely between 1989-2007, winning the Ashes became boring for them. New rivalries with other test teams like S Africa/India were formed & of course winning 50 overs world cup became big.

 

[Skater]

Kind of sad then, isn't it ? Because I am guessing the feeling isn't mutual. Aussies would definitely rate winning the world cup higher than winning the Ashes. They have ofcourse won both of those many times

I doubt that as well. They still take great pleasure in beating us. England v Australia is the oldest rivalry in sport, and we love beating each other. Personally, winning the Ashes no matter how many times we do it would always come above winning the 50 over World Cup.

 

[grkrama]

winning the 50 over World Cup.

you got to do it first right

 

[Satan666]

It depends on the state of AUS cricket. Recently winning the Ashes was a "BIG" deal for AUS, having lost it in 2009 & the little ENG dominance that was builiding. AUS players had a massive celebration by the sydney harbour bridge, meeting the president. That never happened before in a recent ashes.

However when AUS were blasting England routinely between 1989-2007, winning the Ashes became boring for them. New rivalries with other test teams like S Africa/India were formed & of course winning 50 overs world cup became big.

Australia won consecutive world cups while they were at the top also in test cricket. We return to the 70's early 80's the West Indies won successive cups also being at the top in test cricket. For these two great teams the world cup was just the icing on the cake for their world dominance which was primarily based on being the 'unofficial test cricket champions'. For teams like India who won the world cup in '83 started the mad craze for cricket, hence most Indian fans would automatically think that the World Cup is the pinnacle of the great game, its almost ingrained in their DNA now.