India in England Jun-Sept 2014

[asprin]

^ Hard to believe you left out Anderson. He just had 1 bad game....

 

[SaiSrini]

Dhoni's impact in ODI's and T20's is huge. The impact when he leaves the ODI and T20 scene would be huge, probably bigger than how it was when Tendulkar left the scene in ODI's. Dhoni is possibly India's best ever ODI player in the past 20-25 years, and his T20 skills have also been right up there. Its tests we are talking about, and Dhoni hasnt made much of an impact in tests. Overseas, he has almost been a walking wicket when conditions are sporting (i.e. providing help for bowlers who put the effort). He has had some good innings in tests, but most of them have been on flat tracks. His "poke outside off stump" in tests is now becoming infamous.

Dhoni does not possess the best technique as a keeper. This is not a worry in the shorter formats, but in tests, it most often can make an impact. Thats why I said Dhoni the batsman and Dhoni the keeper wont be missed in tests. When Dhoni retires in tests, Saha can play for a few years before Samson is ready to take over (or somebody else in the horizon comes in; like a KL Rahul, etc). I am a huge Dhoni fan, but thats for the shorter formats.

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He may retire from tests after Australian tour, but I don't think he will retire from odi before 2019 World Cup. Also, Samson will get mature as a wicket-keeper by that time.

Tough to see him last til 2019 WC. Dhoni is not a pure batsman to last till 38-39. He handles multiple roles like captain, wicketkeeper. I predict that 2016 could see him go.

 

[lion100lion]

India Captain Mahendra Singh Dhoni 5th Most Valuable Athlete: Forbes

Team India skipper Mahendra Singh Dhoni has earned more than Cristiano Ronaldo and Lionel Messi as per Forbes magazine.

MS Dhoni 5th Most Valuable Athlete On Earth: Forbes | Sports | www.indiatimes.com

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Tough to see him last til 2019 WC. Dhoni is not a pure batsman to last till 38-39. He handles multiple roles like captain, wicketkeeper. I predict that 2016 could see him go.

The predition of Dhoni lasting till 2019 World Cup was not made by me, but by the legend Sunil Gavaskar, when Dhoni scored those 224 runs in Tests vs Australia.

 

[ste_mc_efc]

He likely won't still be keeping at 38/39 (except for the odd game, maybe). Too unrealistic.

he'd have to convert to a specialist bat. Can see him doing that in ODIs but tests he'll have to up his production a fair bit.

But then people age differently. he may be completely useless at 33. he might be even better than he is now at 36.

 

[War]

What on earth is Chris Woakes doing in the squad? Hes another one of those mediocre players England could do without. From the few times I've seen him he just looks like a 130ks county bowler and his batting isn't going to be better than a number 8. They really do need to think outside the box.

Ye as i've said before despite Woakes good looking FC record, seeing him at international level, he looks like another example of all the averaage/crappy county all-rounders who played for England between Botham retirement in 1991 to Flintoff's emergence in 2002 i.e Chris Lewis, Dermott Reeve, Ronnie Irani, David Capel, Mark Ealham, Mike Watkinson, Hollioake Bro's, Rikki Clarke, Ian Blackwell.

Maybe he can improve, but i have no serious confidence in him right now & his consistent squad selection comes across as some favourite by the staff. Only Stokes & Jordan as the batting/bowling all-rounders should be in the squad.

Although i don't rate Kerrigan, if they wanted to keep a spinner around, it made more sense to keep him, than Woakes.

 

[cricket_icon]

^ Hard to believe you left out Anderson. He just had 1 bad game....

ohh crap my bad, dunno what happened there lol, Jimmy instead of Plunkett of course. And I know Liam has done ok recently but if Finn is fully fit physically and psychologically, he should be in the side.

I must have made 50 posts on finn and no one listens

 

[T.J.Hooker]

The handling of Finn has clearly been terrible, just like the handling of Anderson in early 2000s.

The guy came in with genuine pace and a golden arm, and after Engalnd's expert coaching he wasn't even bowling well enough to carry the drinks.

Anderson is probably going to finish as England's top wicket taker in tests but he nearly ended up relegated to the county game because some committee of useless asshats decided his action needed "improving".

I wonder just how many potentially great players have been ruined by crap coaching sometimes.

 

[Skater]

Ever so slightly off topic, but still relevant to England v India, on Tuesday - a day after England threw away another Test match - I walked on the Lord's outfield.

There was also a game going on between the MCC and the Hong Kong Cricket Club. Playing for the MCC was none other than India legend Rahul Dravid, although he made 14.

 

[barmyarmy]

Jarrod Kimber on England's fall from grace - part one | Cricinfo Magazine | ESPN Cricinfo

Jarrod Kimber on England's fall from grace - part two | Cricinfo Magazine | ESPN Cricinfo

Make sure you read both of the above. Essential reading and says a lot of what I've been saying in my articles

 

[blockerdave]

he averages <25 with the ball in FC cricket and 38 with the bat.

He didn't impress in the ODIs, but it's not the 90s. We can't just write someone off after one test match.

His performances in the CC warrant a decent shot.

Will Gidman averages 21.86 with the ball and 38.77 with the bat. I guess he doesn't have "the right kind of family".

Woakes is appalling. Somehow he has dodged the flak Kerrigan got despite his debut being almost as pathetic.

This is a shambolic, appalling England set up. The sad thing is there is nobody among the senior players, coaching staff or administrators who would have the clarity of thinking, personal integrity or authority to rip it up and start again.

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^ Hard to believe you left out Anderson. He just had 1 bad game....

Neither Anderson nor Broad are bowling anything like they should be. Anderson's problem is of even more long standing than Broad's as it goes right back to last summer, at least Broad bowled well over the winter.

Finn would struggle to come back under Saker.

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Jarrod Kimber on England's fall from grace - part one | Cricinfo Magazine | ESPN Cricinfo

Jarrod Kimber on England's fall from grace - part two | Cricinfo Magazine | ESPN Cricinfo

Make sure you read both of the above. Essential reading and says a lot of what I've been saying in my articles

i read them both, excellent articles. I personally think Saker and Flower got off rather lightly (albeit he obviously attacked the system, and acknowledged it was of Flower's making).

it's interesting actually that his point of over-analysing/over-coaching, preventing the players from making any decisions on or off the field creates an inability to think on their feet and inevitably impacts on to performance parallels some points made by Martin Samuel in the Mail regarding the football team.

We have in Flower a guy who created a system in which everything was controlled, and individuality was essentially considered a "sin" (it's astonishing in hindsight how long KP lasted in that environment)... He is still pulling the strings and instead we have reappointed a coach who was an utter failure the first time, and got the job now because he would follow orders from Flower and certainly not challenge "No KP" orders.

We have a Captain with literally no qualifications in terms of man management or tactical accumen... (his inability to man-manage was the key driver in getting rid of KP, to develop a team environment that would "support" him)...

We have no spinner, an "attack leader" that has clearly passed his best but is still being bowled into the ground by our thoroughly inept "Captain"...

We have a bowling coach that was responsible for destroying one of our best bowling prospects for years, and seems to escape any blame at all for the current utter inability to dismiss tails - we're giving up an average of 98 runs for the last three wickets over 12 months for god's sake.

A pox on the lot of them.

 

[barmyarmy]

And today the ECB announce that Andy Flower will be coaching the England Lions.

 

[ste_mc_efc]

Will Gidman averages 21.86 with the ball and 38.77 with the bat. I guess he doesn't have "the right kind of family".

Woakes is appalling. Somehow he has dodged the flak Kerrigan got despite his debut being almost as pathetic.

he's 29 and played 40 fewer FC matches than 25 year old Woakes.

I wasn't saying he should play. just that he's done enough to be considered and it's not fair to completely write him off.

 

[T.J.Hooker]

Jarrod Kimber on England's fall from grace - part one | Cricinfo Magazine | ESPN Cricinfo

Jarrod Kimber on England's fall from grace - part two | Cricinfo Magazine | ESPN Cricinfo

Make sure you read both of the above. Essential reading and says a lot of what I've been saying in my articles

Some great writing there.

Effectively coaches and managers are the gatekeepers of all forms of cricket, and no player can succeed and grow without their favour.

And while their spotting of major talent can often be little relied upon to uncover an exceptional player, their spotting of players destined for life on the margins is virtually a self-fulfilling prophecy, as those starved of games or opportunities in games are obviously going to struggle to improve.

 

[War]

And today the ECB announce that Andy Flower will be coaching the England Lions.

The ECB are doing a wonderful job in being worst than Football Association. This is like asking Graham Taylor or Steve McClaren to coach the under 21, after the failed to qualify for major tournaments.

Just like Duncan Fletcher left after doing his part, Flower should be GONE!!

 

[asprin]

I wonder just how many potentially great players have been ruined by crap coaching sometimes.

I feel Irfan Pathan was lost to this.Just too many cooks... I cringe every time I see him bowl now.