India Team Discussion

[Bigby Wolf]

For what it’s worth, I don’t think Rohit’s underperformance as the captain excuses or exonerates Kohli’s own well documented issues with captaincy. Not even sure why the latter is being viewed through rose tinted glasses these days, I guess we all tend to only remember the good moments in nostalgia.

Both were equally bad tactically in clutch matches be it the squad selection or field placement or rotation of bowlers.

It like considering Rohit as someone like holier than tho figure with 5 IPL titles and expected to win everything for India which most of the guys did not only across social media but also here in the forum.

But in Reality he turned out to be equally worse if not worser in short tenure so far.

 

[Till Valhalla]

Not even sure why the latter is being viewed through rose tinted glasses these days, I guess we all tend to only remember the good moments in nostalgia.

10 years, or 20 years Dhoni will always suck no rose tinted glasses.

 

[asprin]

I like the sound of Ashwin the captain. Bloke has an astute cricketing mind, and I would be interested to see how that pans out should he become the Test skipper. It could very well start off as an interim solution when Rohit is no longer the captain.

Iyer, on the other hand, concerns me given how his weakness can be exploited by teams. I don't mind him as the captain in limited overs format but Tests I wouldn't be so confident.

 

[icyman]

It like considering Rohit as someone like holier than tho figure with 5 IPL titles and expected to win everything for India which most of the guys did not only across social media but also here in the forum.

But in Reality he turned out to be equally worse if not worser in short tenure so far.

Rohit:the limited overs skipper still excites me! Its a shame that he hasn't put his MI 'captaincy talent' to the India job. This could have been impacted by the role of selectors, coach-transition, team selection, injuries and playing a potential weak India at times. In the lead up until November, I would be happy if Rohit plays all the games and finds his mojo. As aforementioned, a triangular/quadrangular in India featuring SENA nations might size the team up for the World Cup nicely.

Now, Rohit:the test skipper- he has always seemed dull. To the extent that you would question whether he willingly took up the role or not. He has missed a few Tests, which has impacted the team balance and strategy as well. His short tenure needs to be viewed with a punch of salt here. Not defending him, but I seriously feel the BCCI shouldnt have gone ahead with his appointment as the Test skipper. Misfortunes seem to be carrying over to the ODI/ T20 format as well with the results not going in our favour much. Hence you see in the T20i arena, Hardik as an emerging force- which in reality is just the Halo effect of Ahmedabad reaching consecutive IPL Finals (and winning one)

 

[wasteyouryouth]

Rohit:the limited overs skipper still excites me! Its a shame that he hasn't put his MI 'captaincy talent' to the India job. This could have been impacted by the role of selectors, coach-transition, team selection, injuries and playing a potential weak India at times. In the lead up until November, I would be happy if Rohit plays all the games and finds his mojo. As aforementioned, a triangular/quadrangular in India featuring SENA nations might size the team up for the World Cup nicely.

Now, Rohit:the test skipper- he has always seemed dull. To the extent that you would question whether he willingly took up the role or not. He has missed a few Tests, which has impacted the team balance and strategy as well. His short tenure needs to be viewed with a punch of salt here. Not defending him, but I seriously feel the BCCI shouldnt have gone ahead with his appointment as the Test skipper. Misfortunes seem to be carrying over to the ODI/ T20 format as well with the results not going in our favour much. Hence you see in the T20i arena, Hardik as an emerging force- which in reality is just the Halo effect of Ahmedabad reaching consecutive IPL Finals (and winning one)

'Captaincy talent' helps when you have one of the best franchise XIs ever put together.

 

[Bevab]

Both were equally bad tactically in clutch matches be it the squad selection or field placement or rotation of bowlers.

It like considering Rohit as someone like holier than tho figure with 5 IPL titles and expected to win everything for India which most of the guys did not only across social media but also here in the forum.

But in Reality he turned out to be equally worse if not worser in short tenure so far.

Rohit has been a visible improvement in white ball cricket I'd say (has just been a bit more proactive with decisions and got the side playing more aggressive cricket barring the T20 WC which was silly) but it hasn't been to the extent you would have expected after those five IPL trophies, I agree with that. He'll always have the caveat of this side being not his at the core compared to Kohli which will deflect some of the criticism but I think that enough time has passed by and we've had other alternatives pop up that he deserves criticism should he also fail in the upcoming WC. Given that the hosts have won the last three ODI WCs, we should make the final at least despite a couple of teams being better than us.

I wasn't a fan of Rohit becoming the test skipper in the first place and I didn't have a big issue with Kohli as the test captain compared to some in the forums too. It was his atrocious team selection, RTG policy and being a bit too defensive with his fields that were my nitpicks with his test stint but he also brought in an aggressive approach to wanting results and wins that I found refreshing. It's also fair game to blame Rohit (and Dravid) for still sticking with the same crop of players and failing to bring about a needed squad transition in tests, I can already see how our team will have a slightly painful rebuild due to several players coming in without experience at the same time if we keep sticking to the same players.

 

[Bevab]

I reckon Rohit, Pujara and Rahane might not be in BCCI's plan 6-10 months from now. I expect Virat to play for 1-2 years more. Jadeja might need to be careful about playing every match. Ashwin will definitely be in the scheme of things, especially home matches. Siraj and Shami have done enough to keep playing. Bumrah and Pant are wild cards. We don't know when they will be back in action. But I feel Bumrah will likely focus on limited overs format to prolong his career.

My take is that Rohit ,Pujara and Virat will step aside OR be forced out of the Test side. The transition has to begin soon. Rahane- I'll still hold onto to him, for the fact that he might end up performing the role Kumble did for India in 2008. Ashwin could also be a stop-gap skipper till they hand over the reigns finally to Iyer.

Jadeja has proven time and again that he can only perform on track that assist him. India will have to look at alternatives and might be even willing to look at Bishnoi, who has been nothing short of a revelation. With the considerable lack of India A/B tours, it is increasingly difficult to spot all-round talent, unless you go the IPL way and blood in somebody(not recommended at a Test level)

The bowling-again- not too happy with the erratic lengths from our bowlers in the 1st innings. Much was expected of Shami, but it wasnt to be. Umesh should be on his way out now.

For the WI series- I would ideally wait until the CWC Qualifiers to figure whether they'll play in the World Cup or not. If not, I wouldn't send our team there. With the financial clout that we have, we can very well stage an ODI tri-series with England, Australia New Zealand. Anyhow ,since the context is w.r.t the transition and WI series, I would really like to see the likes of Gaikwad, Sarfaraz in the side and hopefully these guys get a longer run.




P.S: Bumrah and Pant are finished IMO. The worst thing that the Indian management can do is to induct either into the World Cup squad. Their past exploits have been great- however, all of that came in a younger, fitter body. To be eligible for the Indian team, they need to go back to the grind, sweat it out in domestic and then return. There can be no substitute. India learnt this lesson the hard way in WT 2021, where we trailed a variety of players before the tournament. However, the main tournament saw the return of demi-Gods, who didnt perform on their given day.

I don't think Kohli will voluntarily step away from test cricket, he's still batting well in tests aesthetically but loses his wicket due to a lack of concentration or due to his obsession with playing perfectly from what I can see. It's also the format he most loves, I'd guess that he would give it up a couple of years later voluntarily only if it gives him an increased chance of making the 2027 ODI WC as a veteran. It's up to the BCCI to take a call on him. I suspect Pujara to be the same as without tests he would be losing out on his central contract (worth around 3 crores which is significant for someone that doesn't have an IPL contract), he'll do his best to keep that contract and spot secure via appearing in county cricket and scoring the odd big knock. The BCCI once again has to be the harsh decision maker here.

Rohit's the interesting one, he has missed tests and I don't know if his body will hold up in the next year or two. Equally he has been our best test opener when fit and may not play T20Is anymore if the rumours are true. I would still want a year out of him as an opener but I do agree that we can't afford the luxury of a captain who doesn't play every test. If we are to begin a transition we need a couple of senior heads at least and given Rohit's the only senior player performing adequately alongside Jadeja with the bat it makes sense to keep him. All of this is contingent on him wanting to play more test cricket. I'd be wary of Rahane becoming a fixture going forward too, he was quite lucky in that first innings of the WTC final and didn't look particularly different from when he was dropped, he was still gifting chances and trying to play risky shots without being in control. His biggest issue was his inability to handle spin at home too, I haven't seen enough from him to convince me that it has gone away. I'd look to keep him if and only if he can be decent enough to get by against spin on home pitches.

Pant's not going to play any form of cricket this year I'm afraid, I'd be surprised if he was in contention during the early part of next year too. Bumrah's unlikely to play in the WC too. We can get by with Shami, Siraj and two frontline spinners if that is the case I feel and use Hardik as the third pacer with Jadeja/Axar being the sixth bowler.

Bishnoi has played only one FC match in his entire career and hasn't been anywhere near the India A squads either for red ball cricket, I suspect the management sees him as a Chahal like spinner who is more suited to white ball cricket. We don't lack options for spinners in tests, Kuldeep and Axar are raring to go and if Sundar can be fit enough he is another one who can slot in. Beyond them there's Kartikeya and Mulani both of whom have had strong domestic seasons. Saurabh Kumar is another one who has been in and around the Indian setup. Worst case scenario, we can plug in Jalaj Saxena despite his increasing years to do a job for the odd match or two.

It's the pacers I'm worried about rightfully. Shami has always struggled in England, his style of bowling means he is unlikely to actually draw the edges from batters, the best he can do is get close enough to draw shouts of being close whilst never truly threatening any batter. He should still be fine elsewhere but I'd love to see us get a swing bowler for the eventual tour of England, feel like we truly need one. Avesh Khan should get his chance soon enough, he's had two great seasons in Ranji Trophy if I'm right and his best format has always been first-class cricket, I'm bemused that they tried to shoehorn him in the white ball side on the back of a couple of good IPLs and haven't gone back since then. It's also worth checking out one of the Bengali or Karnataka pacers, the former have done wonders for their side and I assume Mukesh Kumar will be getting his test chance soon enough.

 

[wasteyouryouth]

I don't think Kohli will voluntarily step away from test cricket, he's still batting well in tests aesthetically but loses his wicket due to a lack of concentration or due to his obsession with playing perfectly from what I can see. It's also the format he most loves, I'd guess that he would give it up a couple of years later voluntarily only if it gives him an increased chance of making the 2027 ODI WC as a veteran. It's up to the BCCI to take a call on him. I suspect Pujara to be the same as without tests he would be losing out on his central contract (worth around 3 crores which is significant for someone that doesn't have an IPL contract), he'll do his best to keep that contract and spot secure via appearing in county cricket and scoring the odd big knock. The BCCI once again has to be the harsh decision maker here.

Rohit's the interesting one, he has missed tests and I don't know if his body will hold up in the next year or two. Equally he has been our best test opener when fit and may not play T20Is anymore if the rumours are true. I would still want a year out of him as an opener but I do agree that we can't afford the luxury of a captain who doesn't play every test. If we are to begin a transition we need a couple of senior heads at least and given Rohit's the only senior player performing adequately alongside Jadeja with the bat it makes sense to keep him. All of this is contingent on him wanting to play more test cricket. I'd be wary of Rahane becoming a fixture going forward too, he was quite lucky in that first innings of the WTC final and didn't look particularly different from when he was dropped, he was still gifting chances and trying to play risky shots without being in control. His biggest issue was his inability to handle spin at home too, I haven't seen enough from him to convince me that it has gone away. I'd look to keep him if and only if he can be decent enough to get by against spin on home pitches.

Pant's not going to play any form of cricket this year I'm afraid, I'd be surprised if he was in contention during the early part of next year too. Bumrah's unlikely to play in the WC too. We can get by with Shami, Siraj and two frontline spinners if that is the case I feel and use Hardik as the third pacer with Jadeja/Axar being the sixth bowler.

Bishnoi has played only one FC match in his entire career and hasn't been anywhere near the India A squads either for red ball cricket, I suspect the management sees him as a Chahal like spinner who is more suited to white ball cricket. We don't lack options for spinners in tests, Kuldeep and Axar are raring to go and if Sundar can be fit enough he is another one who can slot in. Beyond them there's Kartikeya and Mulani both of whom have had strong domestic seasons. Saurabh Kumar is another one who has been in and around the Indian setup. Worst case scenario, we can plug in Jalaj Saxena despite his increasing years to do a job for the odd match or two.

It's the pacers I'm worried about rightfully. Shami has always struggled in England, his style of bowling means he is unlikely to actually draw the edges from batters, the best he can do is get close enough to draw shouts of being close whilst never truly threatening any batter. He should still be fine elsewhere but I'd love to see us get a swing bowler for the eventual tour of England, feel like we truly need one. Avesh Khan should get his chance soon enough, he's had two great seasons in Ranji Trophy if I'm right and his best format has always been first-class cricket, I'm bemused that they tried to shoehorn him in the white ball side on the back of a couple of good IPLs and haven't gone back since then. It's also worth checking out one of the Bengali or Karnataka pacers, the former have done wonders for their side and I assume Mukesh Kumar will be getting his test chance soon enough.

Shami has a bizarre record in England. He beats the bat consistently and all the data points to him being excellent but somehow he doesn't get reward for it.

Mohammed Shami and the Question of Luck - CricViz

Ben Jones looks back at the Indian seamer's 2018 series, analysing of the unluckiest campaigns in the modern era.

cricviz.com

 

[Bevab]

Going forward, I wouldn't mind seeing this test side in the near future...

Rohit
Gill
Jaiswal
Rahane/Kohli/Shreyas
Sarfaraz/Shreyas
Jadeja
Upendra Yadav (Bharat's keeping was much better in the second innings of the WTC final but I want to see how this lad does, he's moved from a Ranji powerhouse to Railways who aren't a strong outfit and hasn't done too bad for himself, also has two fifties in four India A games)
Ashwin
Thakur/Axar/Avesh
Shami
Siraj

 

[Bevab]

Shami has a bizarre record in England. He beats the bat consistently and all the data points to him being excellent but somehow he doesn't get reward for it.

Mohammed Shami and the Question of Luck - CricViz

Ben Jones looks back at the Indian seamer's 2018 series, analysing of the unluckiest campaigns in the modern era.

cricviz.com

This is pretty much what I wanted to say.

Matt Henry used to have a similar issue once. They're both extremely good at bowling to try and draw edges on the offside but can't quite get close enough to the corridor of uncertainty consistently enough and lack that extra something that leave you vulnerable to being hit (in Henry's case, a lack of proper pace and in Shami's case inconsistency with his lengths). It's also why they're so good in ODIs where the batters have to play shots especially in the modern era, those deliveries that get either left or played poorly but not poor enough to get wickets become a lot more dangerous when you're forced to play at them and they can use their full mastery of seam to get those wickets.

Henry got over this by just putting in work to become better with multiple county stints and behind the scenes training over at NZ, he also had the incentive to do so in order to become a regular multi-format pacer which has been confirmed in the wake of Boult's semi-retirement. Given Shami's already a regular in two formats and a premier backup in the other I doubt he has a real need to work like that especially when he's got such a monstrous record in Asia with the same style of bowling.

 

[Bevab]

So as per the PTI, Ishan Kishan has rejected selection to the East Zone team in Duleep Trophy (for the uninitiated, it’s a region based tournament where each region picks players from multiple Ranji teams) and was even offered the captaincy of the team. The latter is already ridiculous given Easwaran captained Bengal to a Ranji final last season and should have been the first choice anyways. What is even more ridiculous is Kishan rejecting the call-up, he has a grand total of four Ranji games under his belt in this decade and two India A games in the FC format.

Him rejecting the opportunity to further build his meagre FC experience points to a lack of interest in the longer format and he should be dropped from the Indian test side until he shows interest. This wouldn’t even be out of line given their new policy of not considering players for Indian selection who turn out only for IPL sides and skip on other domestic games when possible. Bharat the current incumbent for instance will be playing for South Zone.

It’s one thing for the established stars to skip out on domestic games (which I find ridiculous enough already), it’s another thing for a player on the fringes to do so. But who am I kidding, he’ll be dragged around the team because of ‘talent’ and because he happens to be MI’s poster boy for the future.

 

[Bigby Wolf]

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[Paranoid Kendroid]

Ambati Rayudu Accuses Ex-BCCI President Of Ruining His Career To Help Son; Claims They Hurt Him Mentally

Ambati Rayudu has made a shocking claim and accused the former Board of Control of Cricket in India (BCCI) president of trying to ruin his career while he was breaking through as a young player at Hyderabad. Rayudu eventually only made his India debut in 2013 and played 55 ODIs and 6 T20Is...

www.timesnownews.com

 

[Bevab]

Ambati Rayudu Accuses Ex-BCCI President Of Ruining His Career To Help Son; Claims They Hurt Him Mentally

Ambati Rayudu has made a shocking claim and accused the former Board of Control of Cricket in India (BCCI) president of trying to ruin his career while he was breaking through as a young player at Hyderabad. Rayudu eventually only made his India debut in 2013 and played 55 ODIs and 6 T20Is...

www.timesnownews.com

This is a well known story which is probably true, I’ve heard similar rumours around the time he joined the ICL which corroborates his story.

 

[icyman]

Him rejecting the opportunity to further build his meagre FC experience points to a lack of interest in the longer format and he should be dropped from the Indian test side until he shows interest. This wouldn’t even be out of line given their new policy of not considering players for Indian selection who turn out only for IPL sides and skip on other domestic games when possible. Bharat the current incumbent for instance will be playing for South Zone.

I too find it ridiculous that stars nowadays skip domestic tournaments. In a few years, people will stop playing Ranji altogether. Whatever happened to Dravid-Laxman ruling that we will ensure a player goes through the grind in order to be eligible for selection? Unsanctioned reports also stating that Bumrah will be in the side for the Irish T20 whereas Pant will be drafted into the World Cup squad. Ridiculous!

Ambati Rayudu Accuses Ex-BCCI President Of Ruining His Career To Help Son; Claims They Hurt Him Mentally

Ambati Rayudu has made a shocking claim and accused the former Board of Control of Cricket in India (BCCI) president of trying to ruin his career while he was breaking through as a young player at Hyderabad. Rayudu eventually only made his India debut in 2013 and played 55 ODIs and 6 T20Is...

www.timesnownews.com

Sour grapes!

I am sorry, but I cannot believe Ambati Rayadu here. Rayudu has always been a spoilt brat- joining ICL ,announcing retirement just cause he wasn't selected. If some parts of the story are true, then Rayudu could have simply switched over to another Indian domestic side- why join the ICL?