India tour of New Zealand - Jan to Feb 2014

[StinkyBoHoon]

^^

Really?. That would be quite scandalous if that occurred. BCCI again & the fraudulent dynamics of work cricket

it would be nothing to do with the BCCI. it would be the NZC wanting to ensure 5 days play to get the maximum possible TV advertising and gate reciepts.

 

[War]

it would be nothing to do with the BCCI. it would be the NZC wanting to ensure 5 days play to get the maximum possible TV advertising and gate reciepts.

And you seriously believe the NZC after their coach specifically called for greentops, is so money hungry they are going to go against their coaches wishes, without some form of BCCI influence?

NZC are one of the weaker financial boards in world cricket after all & its common knowledge how all cricket boards make substantial money from hosting a home series vs IND. Its well know that Cricket S Africa have been hit financially, by the BCCI using horrendous bully-boy tactics to shorten that current series.

In this cricket world where BCCI influence has been proven to manipulate photographers, a media box and commentators as was the case when ENG toured IND in 2012/13 - one should not take the default position to defend the BCCI in such accusation, since they have actually done worse.

In fact as posted Fergie mentioned, i recall similar rumour circulating during the 2008/09 tour.

 

[aditya123]

In fact as posted Fergie mentioned, i recall similar rumour circulating during the 2008/09 tour.

Yes War, any success that India has had in the past has been solely due to the BCCI influencing everything from the pitches to the opposition strategy overseas. This is getting seriously repetitive now.

 

[StinkyBoHoon]

And you seriously believe the NZC after their coach specifically called for greentops, is so money hungry they are going to go against their coaches wishes, without some form of BCCI influence?

NZC are one of the weaker financial boards in world cricket after all & its common knowledge how all cricket boards make substantial money from hosting a home series vs IND. Its well know that Cricket S Africa have been hit financially, by the BCCI using horrendous bully-boy tactics to shorten that current series.

In this cricket world where BCCI influence has been proven to manipulate photographers, a media box and commentators as was the case when ENG toured IND in 2012/13 - one should not take the default position to defend the BCCI in such accusation, since they have actually done worse.

In fact as posted Fergie mentioned, i recall similar rumour circulating during the 2008/09 tour.

yes, no one doubts that india have the most financial power but they don't hold any sort of monopoly on wanting money and the BCCI's demands usually account for money and power, they gain nothing by merely having different pitches.

if anything the stand off show in the south africa series shows why the idea NZC will put out flat pitches for their own gain is more likely. the south africa rows were highly publicised, there was a power issue at stake. here there are rumours (on a fan message board no less, I can't even find reference to the comments by doull on the web) and what's at stake here is results. the shortening of the tour clearly disadvantaged CSA, the preparation of flat tops benefits NZC.

secondly, how would NZ make money from prepating flat tops through the BCCIs manipulation? unless they're being full on bribed. you're also some how suggesting that there would be no financial advantage to the NZC preparing flattops which there very clearly is, irrespective of BCCI involvement.

it's slightly crazy to suggest someone doing something to benefit themselves must be at the behest of someone else.

 

[War]

Yes War, any success that India has had in the past has been solely due to the BCCI influencing everything from the pitches to the opposition strategy overseas. This is getting seriously repetitive now.

HAAAAAAAAAA - Yo what utter crap are you posting? I challenge you to show where in 4 years on planetcricket have I ever suggested anything remotely closely to this?

I know some Indian posters i've converse with have a tendency to regurgitate the odd appalling statement & i always thought you were different sir aditya - this is ludicrous

 

[War]

yes, no one doubts that india have the most financial power but they don't hold any sort of monopoly on wanting money and the BCCI's demands usually account for money and power, they gain nothing by merely having different pitches.

if anything the stand off show in the south africa series shows why the idea NZC will put out flat pitches for their own gain is more likely. the south africa rows were highly publicised, there was a power issue at stake. here there are rumours (on a fan message board no less, I can't even find reference to the comments by doull on the web) and what's at stake here is results. the shortening of the tour clearly disadvantaged CSA, the preparation of flat tops benefits NZC.

secondly, how would NZ make money from prepating flat tops through the BCCIs manipulation? unless they're being full on bribed. you're also some how suggesting that there would be no financial advantage to the NZC preparing flattops which there very clearly is, irrespective of BCCI involvement.

it's slightly crazy to suggest someone doing something to benefit themselves must be at the behest of someone else.

Does it matter that you can't find comments Doull made on a radio station in a written article online? That's not particular unusual since Radio media comments, unless a journalist heard something (presuming one is listening) that is news worthy - don't make it into the print media just like that.

The NZ poster said he heard it on the local radio, so unless so your suggesting he is making things up - that is enough solid evidence for now. I don't believe poster Fergie has a reputation of slander on this site.

If the BCCI can be proven to manipulate a commentary box views, the entire world not tho use DRS on away tours & foreign tv networks and photography agencies - why can't they possibly manipulate a home board on the pitches they provide - especially against vulnerable member boards?

This here is suspicion on my part, since as i said, this isn't the first time i've heard this rumor.

But a typical test match in NZ starts around non peak hrs in India (6am in the morning) when the majority on IND fans are at work. You might be aware that TV companies who have a big states in sports, especially in cricket and they tend to want the start times of series, to be convenient for its the larger viewer base. In this case its obviously Indian fans in India.

So if the TV companies covering this tour, which the BCCI obviously have a big stake in - are somewhat worried that on greentops India could loose quickly and affect their viewership & the money that is attained from the tour - they might want to step in & limit this possibility.

However lets be clear - this is not say the direct Indian team & management think would be vulnerable - they certainly wouldn't be after holding their own in S Africa.

Also of course NZ would benefit if they prepare flat wickets because they are a weak financial board & if TV companies suggest the aforementioned - they would certainly want to make the BCCI/TV companies happy as Simon Doull suggested.

I don't blame them because its certainly going to benefit their pocket, this is why is say its part of the fraudulent dynamics of world cricket - in which a India tour gives all nations (except England & AUS who don't need it that much) a MASSIVE financial boots.

It was only in the middle of the year i heard the WICB president David Cameron say they only time windies makes money from home tours is when England & India visit. And this was on full display during the tri-series in July - when the grounds of Trinidad & Jamaica was filled with sponsors logo from India companies & none form the Caribbean.

 

[StinkyBoHoon]

when I meant we only had ferg's hearsay, I was suggesting we don't even know what reasons doull gave. he might have been roundly agreeing with me. I've heard home boards be quite open about the need to prepare 5 days pitches when india and england come. when cardiff was first used as a test venue the curator gave these very reasons, said the money they spent to get the 1st ashes test was so much they had to be sure they'd get 5 days.

you yourself have noted that, as it's a 6am starts, it's not going to be the most lucrative tour revenue wise in india, it's also New Zealand, besides bangladesh there probably isn't an opponent india care less about.

on the other hand it's going out during the day for NZ fans, they have gate takings and being india it's one of the 3 opponents that generate interest for NZ fans and also NZs indian population.

also, as the CSA tour has proved, india don't rely on these series for money to the extent that others do. They did bully the CSA, they were able to bully them though because for the BCCI a few less overseas tests don't impact their profits that much, they can take the hit if it's about a power struggle. this series was even cut short like the SAF one. does that sound like something a board needing to squeeze every penny from a tour would do. the corruption at the BCCI is due to self-interest, no one benefitting from the cash flow gives a toss whether india is a succesful or not, especially not in tests as it's the least lucrative format for them.

I'm not disputing at all there's some manipulation of the state of play for TV, it is rubbish that there are few tours that some boards can make money off, but in this case there's absolutely no point blaming the BCCI. they're perhaps emblemetic of this sort of thing, but I'd highly, highly doubt they could influence the curators in this test series in any sort of way that would make sense. whereas NZC could, easily, and it would benefit them far more.

 

[War]

Yes agreed 100% - NZC directly as the home board would likely be the ones telling the groundsmen directly to go against the wishes of the national coach to prepare green-tops.

However since it was brought up by Doull - it opens a can of worms about recent India in NZ tour history. As i said this rumor was very big in the 2009 tour - i believe it was another former NZ player Jeremy Coney who mentioned it back then - when NZ also wanted green-tops - but got roads.

If you recall the 2002/03 India in NZ series, when Shane Bond ran through them - they were a lot of India fans i know in England & other chat forums over the years that suggested that pitches were overly green/unsporting etc. When in fact that pitches were probably no different to seaming wickets India faced in England 2011.

We obviously know since 2002 BCCI influence on world cricket has gone up, so if it does come to past that the NZ coach notably doesn't get his wishes in this series - its not going to look good & it will certainly fit into the narrative of manipulation for financial gain on all parties - NZC/BCCI/TV companies.

 

[surendar]

Lol, I know BCCI is corrupted for money but whatever is said above in some posts is just too much of an imagination. No meaning speculations, rather. Everything is just what you think, War & nothing is what everyone thinks.

 

[War]

Lol, I know BCCI is corrupted for money but whatever is said above in some posts is just too much of an imagination. No meaning speculations, rather. Everything is just what you think, War & nothing is what everyone thinks.

Its not even about what I think. The last page of discussion revolves solely on apparent comments made by a former NZ player - Simon Doull. Thus, the discussion since then, has been based on assessing the reasons why the scenario Doull suggested may/will come to pass.

 

[StinkyBoHoon]

an interesting point about the 02/03 tour was that even NZC's chief executive, Martin Snedden, criticised the pitches as not being test standard and the curators blamed a wet summer. there was no request to prepare these sorts of pitches (and indeed general consensus from everyone was that they were far too seamer friendly) and as far as I'm aware there was no complaint from the BCCI.

even taking this tour into account, the reactions to it came more from NZC which would potentially imply that it's NZC with a vested interest in producing pitches that are more batsman friendly than that tour.

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if flat tops appear, imo, it's NZC's fault. but that wouldn't absolve the BCCI of all the nonsense they've done in the past though. It would just show that the current setup has boards too much power over the the sporting and corporate side of things at the same time. curators should prepare pitches (tbh, I'm no fan of coaches asking for pitches either, and lets be honest, many have criticised the BCCI for this in the past so it doesn't make complete sense to be defending NZs right for green tops) selectors coaches should prepare the team and the boards corporate division should be in charge of selling that as best they can. with no one getting in the others ways.

 

[aditya123]

HAAAAAAAAAA - Yo what utter crap are you posting? I challenge you to show where in 4 years on planetcricket have I ever suggested anything remotely closely to this?

I know some Indian posters i've converse with have a tendency to regurgitate the odd appalling statement & i always thought you were different sir aditya - this is ludicrous

Hey, I`m not a blind fanboy either but when people start ranting about how BCCI would influence the pitches overseas without any reports to suggest that is no less ludicrous. I reiterate, I`m no BCCI backer. I hate the fact that the current SA test series is just 2 tests and so is the NZ series but to suggest that if the wickets are not greentops, it is the BCCI influencing it (without anything concrete to suggest that) is stretching it way too far.

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Yes agreed 100% - NZC directly as the home board would likely be the ones telling the groundsmen directly to go against the wishes of the national coach to prepare green-tops.

However since it was brought up by Doull - it opens a can of worms about recent India in NZ tour history. As i said this rumor was very big in the 2009 tour - i believe it was another former NZ player Jeremy Coney who mentioned it back then - when NZ also wanted green-tops - but got roads.

If you recall the 2002/03 India in NZ series, when Shane Bond ran through them - they were a lot of India fans i know in England & other chat forums over the years that suggested that pitches were overly green/unsporting etc. When in fact that pitches were probably no different to seaming wickets India faced in England 2011.

We obviously know since 2002 BCCI influence on world cricket has gone up, so if it does come to past that the NZ coach notably doesn't get his wishes in this series - its not going to look good & it will certainly fit into the narrative of manipulation for financial gain on all parties - NZC/BCCI/TV companies.

So War, you feel those pitches in 2002 were fair! I seriously challenge you. Just watch some of those games and you would know how much of an advantage bowling first was on those wickets. Secondly, if they were to dish out pitches like those now India would be better suited to rout NZ with far better seam attack than in 2002 (Bangar, Yohannan and Agarkar with Zak). Also, if those wickets in 2009 in NZ were roads, how did the Indian seam attack manage to pick so many wickets while their NZ counterparts could`nt? India were a better side in 2009 and would have gone on to win regardless of the conditions.

 

[harishankar]

As said by others before, green tops actually benefit Indian bowlers a bit and even out the bowling attacks somewhat. In less favourable conditions, Indian seamers look pedestrian and struggle to bowl out teams while other teams have bowlers who are quicker, hit the pitch harder and extract something from slightly flatter pitches.

It depends on how confident NZ are with their pace attack and whether they want to put the Indian batsmen or bowlers under more pressure.

 

[SaiSrini]

The current Ind-SA series is good example. India looked a lot more competitive in Jo'burg when the wicket and conditions helped their bowlers more (in the 1st innings). But when the wicket and conditions are not helpful, SA came back to almost win in Jo'burg, and are looking comfortable in Durban so far. Yes, India's batting also looks comfortable but good teams with good bowling attacks can keep India down (like how Steyn has showed in Durban so far)

But things are different in subcontinent where India are more comfortable, and also know the SG ball at the back of their hand. And in India, the spinners come to the party. So if overseas teams want to do well against India, DONT PREPARE BOWLER FRIENDLY PITCHES!

 

[surendar]

Sai, some people are dreaming that the host side have their Bonds or Doulls still, let them. From what I have seen in last 2-3 tours, Kiwis pace bowling is not threatening anywhere near like Steyn or Mitchy at all. So Yeah!

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This tour reminds me Gambhir's classic match saving century last time in NZ tour. Am very skeptical on Dhawan's capabilities on overseas conditions. Not sure whether Rahane can fit the opening position but we would definitely need a solid opener to compliment Murali's excellent temper to take the shine away from new ball.