India tour of New Zealand - Jan to Feb 2014

[grkrama]

Genetics, man. Genetics has screwed us over. Look at Bond, Southee, Boult, Wagner, McClenaghan, etc. How many Indian people do you know who look like that?

i dont buy that genetics story ,there lot of physically fit and real strong indians especially who are both mentally and physically balanced with good awareness of their body,,,if it was just brute strength or physique a lot of people are there and it is something that can be cultivated...i dont think you need to be super strong to be fast good examples would steyn,lee, and the opposite would be pollard .....

and even if the builds like southee or boult is required im pretty sure there are people ... i think its more about lack of nurturing talent who are young ,most of our bowlers esp pace are mostly rejects i guess who couldnt do well as batsman ,the whole mentality is even though parents now support kids taking cricket unlike in 90's ,they still want their kid to be the next srt .im yet to see parents encouraging kids to be bowlers here .. lack of proper coaching centre for those who cant afford,there is a lot of dry talent on the streets..
even coaches are mostly batsman oriented ,most of them dont have enough practical knowledge on pace bowling...im talking about the junior level here, ofcourse once you break to upper strata there;s mrf pace foundation with the best coaches ,but by then the young legs have been soldered and not much can be done after that...

 

[CG123]

What a performance to start the series off with. To be the first country in the world to overcome a second innings Kohli century is quite an achievement.

 

[used2bcool]

... a whole lot of stuff...

It was just a joke, man.

 

[playkid12]

Genetics, man. Genetics has screwed us over. Look at Bond, Southee, Boult, Wagner, McClenaghan, etc. How many Indian people do you know who look like that?

This isn't entirely true. India is an impoverished nation and it's rare for people in 3rd world countries to reach their genetic potential. It has more to do with the lack of proper nutrition and lifestyle (activity, disease prevalence, infection rates, etc.) than anything. If you notice 2nd and 3rd generation Indians outside of India, they tend to be much better built. There is no surprise when you notice the correlation of less congenital abnormalities, infection rates, etc. in that population. They also tend to eat more protein in their diet, which is severely lacking in the staple foods in India.

That being said, there is no shortage of muscular tall athletes in India, simply because of the ridiculous population. You can tell just by looking at bollywood that there are plenty of people with the right physique.

India's main problem lies in it's inherent corruption and poor pitches that only suit batsmen. No one really wants to be a bowler in India and the majority of the crowd enjoys watching batting more than bowling. In the mindset of most Indians, batting is fun and bowling/fielding is a chore. It becomes even more of a chore when you get no assistance from any of the pitches. And to counteract that, most people choose a bowling style that isn't taxing on the body - spin.

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i dont buy that genetics story ,there lot of physically fit and real strong indians especially who are both mentally and physically balanced with good awareness of their body,,,if it was just brute strength or physique a lot of people are there and it is something that can be cultivated...i dont think you need to be super strong to be fast good examples would steyn,lee, and the opposite would be pollard .....

and even if the builds like southee or boult is required im pretty sure there are people ... i think its more about lack of nurturing talent who are young ,most of our bowlers esp pace are mostly rejects i guess who couldnt do well as batsman ,the whole mentality is even though parents now support kids taking cricket unlike in 90's ,they still want their kid to be the next srt .im yet to see parents encouraging kids to be bowlers here .. lack of proper coaching centre for those who cant afford,there is a lot of dry talent on the streets..
even coaches are mostly batsman oriented ,most of them dont have enough practical knowledge on pace bowling...im talking about the junior level here, ofcourse once you break to upper strata there;s mrf pace foundation with the best coaches ,but by then the young legs have been soldered and not much can be done after that...

Although I agree with you, posting a picture of someone with a clear case of Acromegaly doesn't really support your cause.

 

[grkrama]

It was just a joke, man.

looked more like a question to me

Although I agree with you, posting a picture of someone with a clear case of Acromegaly doesn't really support your cause.

now that was done with a sense of humor i think should have gone with uday chopra then my point would have been clear

 

[asprin]

No one really wants to be a bowler in India and the majority of the crowd enjoys watching batting more than bowling. In the mindset of most Indians, batting is fun and bowling/fielding is a chore.

I think this constitutes 80% of the reason why India do not have a genuine fast bowler. Everyone wants to emulate SRT. I sometimes wonder whether I would ever see a pacy bowler from India give it back to the opposition.

 

[ferg512]

I think this constitutes 80% of the reason why India do not have a genuine fast bowler. Everyone wants to emulate SRT. I sometimes wonder whether I would ever see a pacy bowler from India give it back to the opposition.

Exactly, why on earth would a young kid in India want to bowl pace when being a batsman is far easier and they get all the fame as well. I do think some of you guys are a bit harsh on your bowlers though, Ishant has been a lost cause for a while but I've been really impressed by Bhuvi and Shami. Would be nice to see Aaron get a go, he showed some promise a couple of years back but the real issue is Dhonis love affair with Ishant which there really is no solution for.

 

[scratch978]

I'd argue that Kapil Dev was a very quality bowler. His fitness was great, great all rounder, and holds the respect of all of his contemporaries. He may not have been express pace, but pace isn't the only benchmark by which a bowler is judged.

Kapil Dev was more an allrounder like Kallis, not a specialist fast bowler.
What I meant to say was that we lack bowlers like :-
Steyn, Akthar, Brett Lee etc.

 

[asprin]

but the real issue is Dhonis love affair with Ishant

It really does seem like a love affair when Ishant continues to be in the team without any logical explanation.

 

[scratch978]

It really does seem like a love affair when Ishant continues to be in the team without any logical explanation.

1. If I am right, Ishant is in the team because he hasn't any fitness problems unlike Zaheer, R P Singh, VRV, Umesh Yadav etc.
   
2. Also, presently he is the only bowler who has experience(also has pace about 135 km/h) and with less than a year to go, Dhoni is interested in giving him time to adjust himself in those conditions.
   
3. Note that India lacks bowler like Steyn to replace Ishant. So Dhoni hasn't got enough choices with him.

 

[surendar]

Kapil Dev was more an allrounder like Kallis, not a specialist fast bowler.
What I meant to say was that we lack bowlers like :-
Steyn, Akthar, Brett Lee etc.

Seriously if you ask me, fast pace isn't the issue. We did have other gems like McGrath, Pollock, Walsh, Wasim etc who are the quality pacers too. That is the quality I was referring to earlier, we didn't have a quality pace bowler except Zaheer & Srinath. Only other close options who could have been groomed better were Agarkar & Pathan. They got rusted the moment they started to focus on batting.

 

[asprin]

1. If I am right, Ishant is in the team because he hasn't any fitness problems unlike Zaheer, R P Singh, VRV, Umesh Yadav etc.
   
2. Also, presently he is the only bowler who has experience(also has pace about 135 km/h) and with less than a year to go, Dhoni is interested in giving him time to adjust himself in those conditions.
   
3. Note that India lacks bowler like Steyn to replace Ishant. So Dhoni hasn't got enough choices with him.

1. If Umesh, Aaron, and Pandey are not fit, what are they doing in the team?

2. I do not agree with this at all. Ishant has had enough time. In fact more than he was supposed to. 1 year is a good enough time to try out a new talent and mould him.

3. We have 2 bowlers who bowl faster than Ishant and are warming the benches. I'm not saying playing them will guarantee better performances from them, but it makes no sense to not make a change inspite of 1 bowler consistently failing miserably.

 

[scratch978]

Seriously if you ask me, fast pace isn't the issue. We did have other gems like McGrath, Pollock, Walsh, Wasim etc who are the quality pacers too. That is the quality I was referring to earlier, we didn't have a quality pace bowler except Zaheer & Srinath. Only other close options who could have been groomed better were Agarkar & Pathan. They got rusted the moment they started to focus on batting.

• Yes, bowlers like Pathan, Bhuvi can do a lot with swing.
• Bowlers like Mcgrath ,Wasim etc were consistent in their line and length with their swing. That's why they were on top.
• Now, as fast a bowler can bowl, it gives them a third variable along with the swings, yorkers and bouncers. Thus it helps them increase their variations.
  Remember, the bowlers are not known for how many different type of bowling they can do, but how they mix up those different types to confuse the batsman.

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If Umesh, Aaron, and Pandey are not fit, what are they doing in the team?

Did you see Umesh in the Australian series ? NO!. Because he was ruled out of the team as he got injured. It's natural that, fast bowlers are prone to injuries.

Ishant has had enough time. In fact more than he was supposed to. 1 year is a good enough time to try out a new talent and mould him.

Bhuvi and Shami are new talents and they are gaining experience.
Ishant can only be replaced by any other experienced bowler like Zaheer and Pathan.

 

[SaiSrini]

I wish Shami doesn't go the way that our other fast bowlers have gone. This guy shows some very real promise. I wish Shami gets a good mentor who can lead him through this phase of his career and give him the right advice.

 

[scratch978]

I wish Shami gets a good mentor who can lead him through this phase of his career and give him the right advice.

He got special coaching from Wasim Akram during the IPL's. Wasim Akram was himself telling this in the commentary box during the Australian ODI series.