Muslims Allowed Girlfriends?

Are Muslims Allowed Girlfreinds?


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I'm intrigued and don't please in anyway think I'm having a go.

So are you saying you don't believe in religion because there is no proof? So are you therefore saying you only believe things that you can see and touch. How can you then believe your teachers at school when they tell you stuff without any proof? What's the difference between a teacher at school and a vicar in a church? I'm just curious about the way you think
 
Our peers?

You make a good observation there SS.

Those who believe in Religion have no one to live up to. Theres on assessor, who you'll only meet when your dead, however long off it it. So a lot of Christains try to show they're good with thier faith to thier peers, which isn't overly good. As i said, theres on assessor, God.
 
From this
Evidence can be in the form of many things, not necessarily physical.

And yes, I will not, believe a teacher who says something without evidence for it. If he or she does that, then his/her ability, or perhaps even integrity should be questioned, unless it's a heavily opinion based subject. Obviously sometimes there is evidence, but it's obviously not shown in its full light to prevent confusing the kids.

The school curriculum, is usually pretty reliable and goes along with scientific knowledge. In subjects such as the sciences, maths, geography, history etc, it's always backed up with evidence. If a Biology teacher says, I believe evolution is wrong, because i believe it is, then that is completely against principles of science.

A vicar on the other hand, quotes sources that are backed by beliefs rather than evidence.
 
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If he or she does that, then his/her ability, or perhaps even integrity should be questioned, unless it's a heavily opinion based subject.

Unfortunately, large pockets of modern science continue to be opinion-based. Lots of bigwigs have a problem with string theory. Lots of bigwigs don't have a problem with Bohmian mechanics. Nobody has a problem with writing papers assuming the falsity of P=NP or the truth of the Riemann hypothesis, although their utility could come to naught overnight like the stocks of the dot-com era. There are about a hundred people in the whole world who understand the proof of Fermat's Last Theorem; for the rest of us, it is religion. There is a lot more science that what has come down to school and college textbooks, and there is a lot more speculation out there than people think.

I also find it amusing that people who don't believe in hell have no problem believing in a black hole, which is basically the same thing. And it's not like
there is conclusive, uncontested evidence for either of them.
 
Seeing as the current state of the debate is more mature than previous pages, I will leave the thread open for the moment, but on a very short leash.
 
Unfortunately, large pockets of modern science continue to be opinion-based. Lots of bigwigs have a problem with string theory. Lots of bigwigs don't have a problem with Bohmian mechanics. Nobody has a problem with writing papers assuming the falsity of P=NP or the truth of the Riemann hypothesis, although their utility could come to naught overnight like the stocks of the dot-com era. There are about a hundred people in the whole world who understand the proof of Fermat's Last Theorem; for the rest of us, it is religion. There is a lot more science that what has come down to school and college textbooks, and there is a lot more speculation out there than people think.

I also find it amusing that people who don't believe in hell have no problem believing in a black hole, which is basically the same thing. And it's not like
there is conclusive, uncontested evidence for either of them.
Of course there's speculation. Whenever science dwelves into new areas, people are not always sure, and evidence is sometimes lacking. However, what I am saying is that just because evidence for a certain scientific hypothesis is not conclusive, it DOES NOT mean that we should accept a null hypothesis of religion, of which there's absolutely no evidence.

Let's consider the two aforementioned cases. Hell : life in the forms of devils and human slaves miles below the earth's crust which we can quite safely say can't be true. Blackholes, on the other hand, there IS evidence for? You keep coming up with claims such as there's no evidence, do you research ? There's an immense amount of evidence, and it's pretty conclusive that black holes exist. I know wikipedia isn't always the best source but hey
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_hole
 
Hell : life in the forms of devils and human slaves miles below the earth's crust which we can quite safely say can't be true.

Why not? Humans have never divulged down near the Earth's core and it is entirely speculation what lies down there.
 
Come on, you're making me state the obvious here. The only forms of life that have been found at those kinds of extreme conditions (no oxygen, extremely high pressure and heat) are sulfur dependant bacteria, which can survive temperatures of around 120 degrees, and even this is within the earth's crust. You can use present knowlege to a certain extent. There isn't going to be any greater forms of life. Seismic waves would have found something otherwise (if you really wanted to test it). It's like saying there could be life in the middle of the sun just because we've never been there.

Besides, I don't NEED to answer the why not. I'm repeating myself again and again and it's quite frustration. Unless there's evidence to suggest that there are devils and humans down there, we reject it.
 
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Come on, you're making me state the obvious here. The only forms of life that have been found at those kinds of extreme conditions (no oxygen, extremely high pressure and heat) are sulfur dependant bacteria, which can survive temperatures of around 120 degrees, and even this is within the earth's crust. You can use present knowlege to a certain extent. There isn't going to be any greater forms of life. Seismic waves would have found something otherwise (if you really wanted to test it). It's like saying there could be life in the middle of the sun just because we've never been there.

Besides, I don't NEED to answer the why not. I'm repeating myself again and again and it's quite frustration. Unless there's evidence to suggest that there are devils and humans down there, we reject it.

I read a philosophical text during an exam called The Official Doctrine which seemed to point out that the human body and mind are two entities, together in life and separate in death. The point I am making is that you seem to be sure that we as humans can only exist as carbon based, oxygen dependant entities, even in death - where our bodies are quite clearly either underground or ash. You talk about scientific proof, but there is no proof either way for what happens when we die to our minds. Everything is theory and nothing is theorem for what happens to our minds when we die.
 
I read a philosophical text during an exam called The Official Doctrine which seemed to point out that the human body and mind are two entities, together in life and separate in death. The point I am making is that you seem to be sure that we as humans can only exist as carbon based, oxygen dependant entities, even in death - where our bodies are quite clearly either underground or ash. You talk about scientific proof, but there is no proof either way for what happens when we die to our minds. Everything is theory and nothing is theorem for what happens to our minds when we die.
Which is the point really. You can't say that people can't exist below the Earth because we're not talking about our bodies here. I don't believe in Hell but that doesn't mean that it doesn't exist.

Personally I think that atheists have a hard time believing these things because it scares them that something could exist that is so out of the ordinary, that can not be explained. You want answers to everything, but you can't handle the fact that nothing in life is certain, and that science can't always account for every single thing that happens.

Of course, you are free to believe what you want, but to me anyone who makes their mind up 100% on this issue is misguided and is obviously acting out of extreme fear/distaste of the alternative.
 
You want answers to everything, but you can't handle the fact that nothing in life is certain, and that science can't always account for every single thing that happens.
I think it is the religious who are more in want of the answers to everything, I'm an atheist and I'm quite content with not knowing the answer to things, I come to conclusions based on as much scientific evidence as possible but realise that not every question can be answered.

By accepting the word of a religion you are doing so to have an answer to every question, but over time scientific evidence has proven many of the things said in religious texts to be wrong. As such I think it is inevitable that questions currently unanswered will slowly continue to be answered, though some will possibly remain unanswered and conveniently they all concern the beginning of the universe, I think trying to answer that is like counting to infinity, impossible. Religion attempts to make a beginning and an end to this, God and an apocalypse respectively and bases this on human existence.

My personal belief is that the result of death is something anyone who has been under general anaesthetic will know about, you fall asleep and then there is nothing, though with anaesthetic you wake up, with death you do not. That is the only difference. Science can't answer this, no one can die and then wake up again to tell the story, if someone is pronounced dead and then they wake up again, they were never dead. Nor can religion answer this, their answer is just one that is a glimmer of hope to provide a means of answering the complex questions such as the meaning of life and to provide acceptance of death (people who believe in reincarnation moreso, why worry about death when you become someone/thing else anyway?). The fact is that if you believe that there is an afterlife and there isn't, there is no effect on you, so you are more willing to take that risk than to believe that there isn't an afterlife and to be proven wrong.

As far as my beliefs on death go, I am convinced that mind is a state of the brain, you can live without mind, but you don't have a mind without life. The brain controls what you think and feel, it is a processing centre for senses from the body, without a body you cannot feel, therefore there is nothing to process and no new information can enter the brain/mind. The answer I give myself for the meaning of life gives me enough of a motivation for life, I don't believe that life is worthless just because there is nothing beyond the end.

Religion in my view is answering a question by guessing, if a prophecy in the Bible or other religious text comes true it is down to simple statistics, if you make enough guesses that are broad enough, some are bound to come true.
The same thing goes with the beginnings of life, the odds fell the Earth's way, that is why I think there is bound to be life outside of Earth, because with the amount of planets in the universe the odds of evolution is bound to bring about a second place where life can exist.

Science is about testable evidence, everything is scrutinised and peer reviewed, if something has reasonable doubt, new research happens to find out a way of proving or disproving the doubt. There are always going to be gaps in science, but ignoring centuries worth of evidence for the word of one book will never appeal to me.

Now obviously everyone can come to their own conclusions, from what I've read elsewhere in this thread there are many who disagree with the finer points of their religious teachings but accept things broadly, if there isn't scientific proof for something they default to religious teaching. Religion creates the perception of full understanding more than science ever can, no matter if it turns out to be false, I'm fine with someone believing what they want to achieve contentment in their own lives.

My acceptance of this falls over when someone won't accept that others have different beliefs and if someone doesn't except that there is a chance they could be wrong about something. If I see evidence to the contrary on any of my beliefs and understanding on the matters I've discussed above I'll certainly read them, I haven't obtained my current position lightly and I'd imagine if I read this post in ten years time there might be parts I disagree with, just like when I've read back some of my past political positions I'd argue against my own stance. This is because knowledge develops, as I learnt more about the world, I've had a shift in my views, the most recent change in my opinion is based on the death penalty, I used to be fine with its use for some crimes, but after I studied the issue deeply last year I've shifted my view, but on the other hand I've always believed in Universal Healthcare and Gun Control.

There is a difference between opinion, belief and fact. Fact is irrefutable evidence, it is the literal meaning of a proof. Opinion is a self made thought, I have an opinion on things where facts are not possible or are refutable. Belief is a rationalisation of fact and opinion. If you can't accept a fact you believe your opinion, if you accept a fact it becomes your opinion. Religious texts in my view are an opinion, they are a way of guiding your own beliefs, but they are not fact. Science can be fact, which is where the difference exists.

If religion can help you come to your beliefs that is fine, an answer's an answer. If belief in something can enhance your life, go for it. Just don't blindly follow.

(And yes, I don't expect anyone will fully read this, it is massively long, over 900 words in fact and fully expect all replies to be picking at a small part).
 
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