Pakistan v Australia in England, June-July 2010

[War]

And War, I'll agree with you that 4 quicks is the most threatening lineup, but I think we should only play 4 if the pitch has something in it eg. Headingly '09. 4 quicks on a flat pitch would be hard work and over rate hell. If we can't bowl teams out in a day (which really means 80 overs with 4 quicks) it ain't worth doing.

For the majority of the Lord's test - the conditions where very similar to headingley last year.

Plus yea i think we debated this before & although i conceed at times having an all-pace attack will run you into over-rate problems. When AUS won in South Africa last year with a 4-man attack (McDonald has a very long run up for a medium pacer) - their wasn't an issue with overrates in those 1st two tests. Nor in the final 2 Ashes tests.

Just because Australia don't have a spinner that is Warne/MacGill quality doesn't mean Australia should go in playing four quicks + Watson.

Because as i discussed before in this thread with most of you guys. The spinners in Hauritz & Smith (at this stage at least) is highly unlikely to run through a proper batting side on 4th & 5th day wearing track - which is the main role of a spinner in a tests.


We shouldn't be carried away by AUS performances againts woeful -in turmoil Pakistan of the last 6-8 months. Haurtiz taking a 5-wicket hauls vs them - plus North (his 6 wicket haul reminder me of Katich's 6 wicket hauls Zimbabwe in 2003) is a joke. They cant do that againts stronger batting teams. Plus even Watson who has been in piss poor bowling form since the NZ tour - suddenly taken a 5 for

The variety a specialist spinner offers would be more valuable than another paceman.

Variety just for the sake of it - isn't good enough if its not quality variety. Which as a spinner Hauritz & Smith (as yet) doesn't offer. As i said they are highly unlikely to run through a side on a 4th or 5th day wearing track.

If Australia play 4 seamers when all are fit in Hilfenhaus/Bollinger/Johnson/Harris or Sildde + Watson as back-up. In those same 4th & 5th day conditions in Hilfy & Siddle/Watson we got fast-bowlers who can reverse swing the old ball @ pace which makes up for the lack of a front line-spinner to exploit the rough patches quite well. Plus Johnson with his raw pace even on flat pitches will test batsmen always.

South Africa throughout the 1990s adopted this almost all the time with very good success.

Part-timers are effective because they are exactly that, they bowl part-time. Start relying on them as your primary spin options and I think you would find that they would become less effective. The fact that our pace attack is wayward at times and not draw much movement from the ball and/or pitch is the reason why we need a reliable, economical spinner such as Hauritz.

Well no i'm not advocating that AUS rely on bowling the part-timers more at all. Since for sure their "shock" value as bowler will certainly decrease. The will still be part-timers in a all-pace attack.

Plus ATS i'm fairly confident that the pace options AUS have, are matured enough as a bowling unit. That we wont see too much wayward/expensive spells like we saw in the Ashes last year.

Also im not sure what you mean "by our pace attack is wayward at times and not draw much movement from the ball and/or pitch". Except Siddle, all of Bollinger, Hilfy, Watson, Harris, Johnson have proven once they get the right conditions that they can move the ball in the air - or off the pitch.

 

[angryangy]

Where ever people think a team shouldn't have 5 pace bowlers... there is War!

 

[War]

I think you do have to play a spinner, 4 quicks plus Watson is a lot of pace bowling, plus if we dont play a spinner how ill we develop one? Warne wasnt great straight away, we played and played him until he came good, even though guys like May and Matthews were getting loads of wickets in shield cricket.

Let the spinner prove himself in state cricket with a load of wickets. Thats the AUS way of doing things.

Of course it worked out good with Warne, by persisting with him based on gut feeling by the selectors. But those things in cricket dont tend to repeat themselves. A more telling historical fact is that Warne/MacGill arrived almost 30 years after Benaud retired (although Jim Higgs had a respectable time in AUS colours)

 

[0601731]

Pakistan should bring back yousuf into the squad now that he has announced he is ready to play.Makes you wonder why these pakistani players even announce their retirement

 

[Insomniac]

To be fairly honest? You have been typing nothing but ████ this whole series.

BTW Malik didn't play.

Not like you've contributed anything worthwhile DumDum.

As for me, the only way to keep this series interesting was to become an Afridi fan, since our team itself is in no position to beat Australia.

 

[angryangy]

Sounds like Kaneria might be dropped for Ajmal because of the number of lefties in our side. A risky move considering what happened last time he played against us.

Yeah, I question the logic. Ajmal is generally tight rather than threatening, but I think any theory suggesting he bowls better to left handers will eventually be proven false. Off spinners with a doosra all do better against right handers. I think Graeme Swann ably demonstrates that off breaks combined with an old fashioned arm ball make the best weapon for an offie against the left hander.

 

[Dare]

Screw the bowling vs lefties point. My question is why would a team take out their joint highest wicket taker so far this year? Where is the logic in that?

 

[Insomniac]

Screw the bowling vs lefties point. My question is why would a team take out their joint highest wicket taker so far this year? Where is the logic in that?

He gives over 100 runs per innings many times to get those wickets.

And he sometimes just doesn't look threatening at all.

 

[Dare]

He gives over 100 runs per innings many times to get those wickets.

And he sometimes just doesn't look threatening at all.

Ajmal been much better then that in his 5 tests? He got dominated in Australia against the same team. Whats going to be so different now?
Kaneria is the best test spinner Pakistan have atm.

 

[sifter132]

For the majority of the Lord's test - the conditions where very similar to headingley last year.

Plus yea i think we debated this before & although i conceed at times having an all-pace attack will run you into over-rate problems. When AUS won in South Africa last year with a 4-man attack (McDonald has a very long run up for a medium pacer) - their wasn't an issue with overrates in those 1st two tests. Nor in the final 2 Ashes tests.

You're right we have debated it . THe main difference between the SA series and the Ashes was the number of maidens we bowled. Siddle, McDonald, Hilfy and even Johnson bowled plenty of maidens and didn't concede a lot of runs and as a consequence the overrate was passable. In England, Siddle and Johnson were getting spanked because they couldn't get it right. If we can go back to SA type accuracy, I'd be happy to try 4 quicks a bit more often and at least having Hilfy back should let us bowl a few more maidens. He doesn't muck about with his run-up either.

 

[aussie1st]

Aussies sweating on health and fitness - Australia - Fox Sports

Would be awesome to see Khawaja debut, North will actually be better of being ill as that will keep his spot safe for another tour at the very least.

 

[Insomniac]

Ajmal been much better then that in his 5 tests? He got dominated in Australia against the same team. Whats going to be so different now?
Kaneria is the best test spinner Pakistan have atm.

I didn't say I agreed with it, but those supporting Ajmal's inclusion have a point.

Since we can't really win the series, I'd say give Kaneria another go, see how it goes, and use this as preparation for the England series.

 

[pcfan123]

Khawaja to get a double ton against the Pakis

 

[ali_ed2001]

Looks like it might be raining for half the test match, so we might finally get a draw

 

[Insomniac]

Khawaja to get a double ton against the Pakis

Oozman is more likely to take 10 wickets in the match.