Patch 3 Requests/Wishlist

Haha last time I was in here was 17 Nov 2014 and u asked about patch 3 and @BigAntStudios replied with "just forget about it, we will release it when we feel it's ready"

Well it's 6 months later lol!

Guess I'll go wait another 6 months or so and come back.

Know the support from them is great but yoh! I don't even play the game anymore and online just feels way to buggy!
 
They have publicly committed to a third patch. There is no information to the contrary.

How is that deception?

I'd understand the grievances if it was a broken, unplayable mess. But that's not the case.

If someone bought the game having been told there would be a third patch which adds particular features, and it either does not come, or they release a new paid game in the series without it's release, then that would be a genuine grievance.

It is getting a bit late in the day on this one, but I'm willing to trust them on this one still.
 
their communication in recent times has been fairly poor, but that's more a reflection of how good it was previously, i'm not aware of many sports games getting this level of ongoing support and communication.

Correct. We were spoiled, plain and simple and @Ross made it clear if he could do it over he would've lurked more, because I think he realised how far he was down the rabbit hole here with some people too late in the game. Anyone complaining doesn't realise the decades the cricket gaming community have gone with little to no input or interaction with developers. At the very least, maybe a few are finally realizing how good we had it for such a sustained time. Second time around (if there is a second) I expect there will be quite a bit less interaction because it's no doubt taxing dealing with a few folks here and I'm guessing it'll be more like a Reddit AMA type thing where they answer questions over a designated period of time, vs. daily interaction and updates.

...all that wall of text being said; There will be a patch 3. I doubt it's a priority though, they're working on other projects and maybe have one or two guys on it every now and then inbetween lunchtime hookers and blow.
 
Correct. We were spoiled, plain and simple and @Ross made it clear if he could do it over he would've lurked more, because I think he realised how far he was down the rabbit hole here with some people too late in the game. Anyone complaining doesn't realise the decades the cricket gaming community have gone with little to no input or interaction with developers. At the very least, maybe a few are finally realizing how good we had it for such a sustained time. Second time around (if there is a second) I expect there will be quite a bit less interaction because it's no doubt taxing dealing with a few folks here and I'm guessing it'll be more like a Reddit AMA type thing where they answer questions over a designated period of time, vs. daily interaction and updates.

...all that wall of text being said; There will be a patch 3. I doubt it's a priority though, they're working on other projects and maybe have one or two guys on it every now and then inbetween lunchtime hookers and blow.

I wouldn't say that we were spoiled. We're not the ones that need the community, loyalty or anything else, they are. They are the ones trying to build that brand, that support and most importantly that loyalty and what should be free advertising. It would be like calling an electorate "spoiled" because their elected member actually appeared once and a while in public. They had been good by modern standards, particularly if your comparison point is one of the bigger franchises, but there are plenty with large amounts of community involvement and discussion.

The big issue there though was that the support and community for the game was hard won through that interaction with the community. Without it, the game would have likely gone approximately nowhere, particularly with it containing all of what, 3 licences (if I recall right), those being for Bradman, the Bradman Oval and the Russian Cricket Team. Particularly with some early issues with the game, the silent treatment, with the troubled past the cricket gaming community has had, could well have killed it before it took it's first steps, particularly with one of their largest markets being seemingly a piracy hotbed.

The thing is, we're now what, over a year from release at this point and some fundamental issues with the game aren't being sorted, and yet again the community is needing to diddle the player attributes to produce a realistic game. The community feedback and interaction while it was at it's peak was good, but was never on the same level as some other companies.

This fear of the piracy boogeyman ultimately seems to have created far more tension, and they ultimately ended up not using the PC platform to the extent they really should, and instead put out a decent, but ultimately half baked edition for the "next gen" consoles.

The thing is, that there was a lot of feedback, but ultimately the same core issues with the game have remained, and we are still after all this time twiddling our thumbs, awaiting the now near mythical patch 3. Whether or not their interests have moved on to other projects is not our business, but ultimately it undermines the value that all the community engagement built up and is potentially harming the 'Don Bradman Cricket' brand itself. With the steps forward the game has provided, this would be a downright disaster.

Ultimately though, with little to no advertising to speak of, a smallish target market and the series itself still very much a work in progress, I'd say if anything winding back community engagement could very well end in tears on both sides.

As for being a taxing experience, if a developer can't discuss things in an open way with their customers without chucking a strop when they get their feelings hurt (and it most definitely is an if, not when), then they are probably in the wrong field. Even the harshest criticism can be valuable, the key is to not get emotional about it, and just try and get to the bottom of it. If someone gets genuinely abusive, just move on, but there is a big difference between abusive and offensive.

Ultimately though it all comes down to business decisions for them, and if they feel that they can achieve more without as much community interaction, that is their choice. Personally I'd take the history of cricket games as a cautionary tale against the "lurk and see" approach, but that's for them to decide.
 
As for being a taxing experience, if a developer can't discuss things in an open way with their customers without chucking a strop when they get their feelings hurt (and it most definitely is an if, not when), then they are probably in the wrong field. Even the harshest criticism can be valuable, the key is to not get emotional about it, and just try and get to the bottom of it. If someone gets genuinely abusive, just move on, but there is a big difference between abusive and offensive.

I think this is a pretty entitled, and immature statement to make. Re-Read that with a business owner/game developer hat on and it frankly sounds ridiculous. We got an AMAZING game. No game is ever going to be perfect, certainly it's never going to be perfect in the first iteration. Calling any patch "Mythical" is just internet-jerk speak. The game is great as it is now. It's not ever going to be "SIM CRICKET" no matter how many patches they do because it's designed to be fun first. But don't make the mistake of thinking the "community" is owed anything at all. We were given the privilege of being involved for no other reason than a few folks here were out-spoken and got noticed... and then from that point, we engaged Ross and the team in good faith and everyone came together in this wonderful little "lightning in a bottle" moment that, as I said, many didn't realize was just a moment and one that prolly won't be repeated.

There's no value being undermined, they're a business and they gotta make money first to KEEP delivering a product for us. If their focus right now is on other projects that will make coin to support further development of DBC14 or a sequel, I'm totally okay waiting on a third patch. It's funny to joke about it not being here yet (Early September, anyone?) but @BigAntStudios has never not delivered on a statement or promise he's made. So I fully expect we'll get a third patch, it'll just be on their time, when they get time and that is totally reasonable.

The thing is, that there was a lot of feedback, but ultimately the same core issues with the game have remained, and we are still after all this time twiddling our thumbs, awaiting the now near mythical patch 3. Whether or not their interests have moved on to other projects is not our business, but ultimately it undermines the value that all the community engagement built up and is potentially harming the 'Don Bradman Cricket' brand itself. With the steps forward the game has provided, this would be a downright disaster.

I absolutely agree. I'd much have the same or higher level of interaction, but I maintain we got a lightening in a bottle moment based on the history of cricket games that I've seen in my time. Ross doesn't strike me as a guy bothered by feedback of any kind as long as it's constructive and/or entertaining. Issue I think (Reading between the lines) was that it got overwhelming for him for what is an essentially very small company and too many people at the time thought he had the time to answer every question and put every possible feature and cheerleaders into the game when they asked. That's what became time-consuming because often in his "Q&A" Friday sessions, he was asked the same questions over and over again. Next time, I think it needs to be more structured and I think we as a community have learned these guys are passionate, dedicated and have earned a bit of trust and respect because they have a pretty amazing track record right now, one from one on delivering a great cricket game.
 
If their focus right now is on other projects that will make coin to support further development of DBC14 or a sequel, I'm totally okay waiting on a third patch.

I think this really is a good and too often overlooked point.

We'd all love there to be some eccentric billionaire pouring more and more money into cricket gamin and hang the cost, but that's not the case - Big Ant need to make money. Development on patch 3 isn't exactly money down the drain as it's both a developmental and reputational investment in any sequel, but equally it's not gonna bring them in another cent right now and there'll be wages, taxes and overpriced vegetarian restaurants to pay.
 
actually co-op was included in patch 2/2.5 , but after patch 2 released big ant stated it will be included in patch 3,might be the delay relate to development of co-op mainly.after the announcement of game they released the game after 1 year,but patch 3 taking lot of time to get released.bigant might have come up with something to address about patch 3 in between.anyways need to wait ,already waited long though .
 
I think this is a pretty entitled, and immature statement to make. Re-Read that with a business owner/game developer hat on and it frankly sounds ridiculous. We got an AMAZING game. No game is ever going to be perfect, certainly it's never going to be perfect in the first iteration. Calling any patch "Mythical" is just internet-jerk speak. The game is great as it is now. It's not ever going to be "SIM CRICKET" no matter how many patches they do because it's designed to be fun first. But don't make the mistake of thinking the "community" is owed anything at all. We were given the privilege of being involved for no other reason than a few folks here were out-spoken and got noticed... and then from that point, we engaged Ross and the team in good faith and everyone came together in this wonderful little "lightning in a bottle" moment that, as I said, many didn't realize was just a moment and one that prolly won't be repeated.

It's a good game, with some very real issues. To call it "AMAZING" is a bit over the top.

Patch 3 was part of the statement from the team prior to many people buying the game (including myself in terms of the PC version). Having waited for it (and it's promised features) for what is now what, the best part of a year, and no movement so to speak, it has earned itself the title of "mythical". To be completely blunt about it, I'd think people who bought the game based on the comments about patch 3 would be completely justified in asking questions at this point.

As for "entitlement" and "the community is owed nothing" (or words to that effect). If a small developer is trying to get their name out there, and build a fanbase, then working with a community is the best way to go about it. To suggest however that it's entitlement to think that a developer should be able to have frank discussions with said community is not entitlement.

Out of interest though, at what point did I suggest it's going to be "SIM CRICKET", and at what point did I ask it be "perfect"?

There's no value being undermined, they're a business and they gotta make money first to KEEP delivering a product for us. If their focus right now is on other projects that will make coin to support further development of DBC14 or a sequel, I'm totally okay waiting on a third patch. It's funny to joke about it not being here yet (Early September, anyone?) but @BigAntStudios has never not delivered on a statement or promise he's made. So I fully expect we'll get a third patch, it'll just be on their time, when they get time and that is totally reasonable.

There is value being undermined. The brand's reputation has been hurt by the wait for patch 3, I know that first hand. I know at least a couple of people who are beyond fed up with the wait, and think they've been swindled, despite my best efforts to explain otherwise to them.

Also, if there are promised features, they most certainly should deliver the product, before expecting more money. I don't know, maybe consumer relations are different in your part of the world. Whilst it's understandable with a small team to wait, and expect that their attention may be diverted elsewhere, it has at this point been a huge amount of time in the waiting room. I fully expect it will come, but don't think for a second that such waits aren't going to have knock on effects for the brand, particularly if they happen with future titles.


I absolutely agree. I'd much have the same or higher level of interaction, but I maintain we got a lightening in a bottle moment based on the history of cricket games that I've seen in my time. Ross doesn't strike me as a guy bothered by feedback of any kind as long as it's constructive and/or entertaining. Issue I think (Reading between the lines) was that it got overwhelming for him for what is an essentially very small company and too many people at the time thought he had the time to answer every question and put every possible feature and cheerleaders into the game when they asked. That's what became time-consuming because often in his "Q&A" Friday sessions, he was asked the same questions over and over again. Next time, I think it needs to be more structured and I think we as a community have learned these guys are passionate, dedicated and have earned a bit of trust and respect because they have a pretty amazing track record right now, one from one on delivering a great cricket game.

One thing that could be done on this end would be to clear up what they had to look through. A "suggestions thread" tends to become such a mess that it's damn near unusable for a lot of things. However, a suggestions section of the forum, where a moderator could summarise the main points in the original post, with links to interesting posts within, could cut down a lot of the sifting work, and dealing with repeated suggestions. Even without the summaries, it would be far easier to skim and deal with in bulk, rather than one huge mess of a thread.
 
The brand's reputation has been hurt by the wait for patch 3

...annnnnnnnnnd you lost me.

They patched the game, almost on a weekly basis for MONTHS after release. They pushed through fixes to consoles on their own dime when Microsoft tweaked them, and many other developers. When the STEAM version hit, there was a collective group from this forum included on daily bug testing and refining. There's was online game-code from real-time matches fed directly back to the guys at BA pushing 1's and 0's on the code. We asked for changes to the tiniest, benign things like "could we have the stumps pop outta the ground more" and it happened... then it was tweaked again because it was a bit comical. No game is perfect, they delivered upfront, on time and regularly after release. Because it's dropped off after those lofty days, all of sudden their reputation is hurt? Please.

You kinda have no idea what you're talking about, I mean that in a general non-offensive sense, even though it's internet tough-guy sounding, I mean it in the nicest possible way. The community here has been well serviced by Big Ant. We get a third patch, when they're done making it. Their reputation for delivering an AMAZING* product is just fine. Anyone that thinks otherwise needs to borrow @ethybubs Delorian and experience a little of the "EA" love from a bygone era...



*It actually is
 
Just out of curiousity, would anyone actually be willing to pay for the patch? Like treat it as dlc.
Assuming it fixed all the problems etc. I'd pay like $10 to have the time frame moved up haha.
 
Just out of curiousity, would anyone actually be willing to pay for the patch? Like treat it as dlc.
Assuming it fixed all the problems etc. I'd pay like $10 to have the time frame moved up haha.

If they asked for money for the update I'd be on the phone to fair dealing. It was something promised prior to my purchase of the game, and was a big part of justifying me buying it a second time.
 
...annnnnnnnnnd you lost me.

They patched the game, almost on a weekly basis for MONTHS after release. They pushed through fixes to consoles on their own dime when Microsoft tweaked them, and many other developers. When the STEAM version hit, there was a collective group from this forum included on daily bug testing and refining. There's was online game-code from real-time matches fed directly back to the guys at BA pushing 1's and 0's on the code. We asked for changes to the tiniest, benign things like "could we have the stumps pop outta the ground more" and it happened... then it was tweaked again because it was a bit comical. No game is perfect, they delivered upfront, on time and regularly after release. Because it's dropped off after those lofty days, all of sudden their reputation is hurt? Please.


Creating a working product is part of building a recognisable brand and gaining loyal customers, particularly in a niche that has seen games fail in the past for lack of communication with their fan base. At the end of the day though, actually using the community to make their game better doesn't suddenly make them gods who walk amoung us, it makes them reasonable developers using the same model that many good development companies use these days. The difference being that they actually continued to support and finish their promised updates in a timely manner.

...and yes, there is damage to the brand's reputation due to this wait. It comes across as them not supporting the product, and as much as you like to say "but they had beta testers on this website I like", how on Earth do you think that's going to matter to somebody who has felt burned by buying a product with particular expectations, and it going on a year without them being fulfilled. A player who wanted a cricket game isn't going to be satisfied by "but they brought it to a different console, they made Table Top Cricket and they're working on a Rugby League game." That's not the consumers' problem, that's Big Ants. Any knock on effects for the business of doing it that way is something for them to consider, but for a paying customer for DBC who feels that they've been betrayed, that brand is most definitely damaged. Again, I have talked to people who think that way, and are genuinely sceptical of Big Ant.

You kinda have no idea what you're talking about, I mean that in a general non-offensive sense, even though it's internet tough-guy sounding, I mean it in the nicest possible way. The community here has been well serviced by Big Ant. We get a third patch, when they're done making it. Their reputation for delivering an AMAZING* product is just fine. Anyone that thinks otherwise needs to borrow @ethybubs Delorian and experience a little of the "EA" love from a bygone era...

Personal insults and poorly rendered arguments aside Biggs, you can think whatever you want about Big Ant. Yes, they did support the game, yes they worked well enough with the community. But that's not the issue, the issue is we're now a year on, the support has evaporated, with no patch 3 to speak of, a game which is good, not "AMAZING" in that all caps way you seem to love.

As for EA love, who needs to visit another era. Just play an EA title with problems from today, it's still there in spades. Being better than absolute, rock bottom rubbish is not suddenly qualifications for being amazing though. It's qualifications for being a reasonable developer who is actually trying to get a better and better product to their consumers year on year with a growing brand identity, and that seems to be something that Big Ant mustered in spades at first, it's what's come after that which concerns me.
 
If they asked for money for the update I'd be on the phone to fair dealing. It was something promised prior to my purchase of the game, and was a big part of justifying me buying it a second time.
Fair enough, but it's not like there was an official announcement or anything was there?
If it was a choice of getting it in 6 months for free or 6 weeks for $10 I'd personally choose the $10 option and get it haha. But that's just my opinion.
 
It comes across as them not supporting the product, and as much as you like to say "but they had beta testers on this website I like", how on Earth do you think that's going to matter to somebody who has felt burned by buying a product with particular expectations, and it going on a year without them being fulfilled. A player who wanted a cricket game isn't going to be satisfied by "but they brought it to a different console, they made Table Top Cricket and they're working on a Rugby League game." That's not the consumers' problem, that's Big Ants. Any knock on effects for the business of doing it that way is something for them to consider, but for a paying customer for DBC who feels that they've been betrayed, that brand is most definitely damaged. Again, I have talked to people who think that way, and are genuinely sceptical of Big Ant
There would be an absolutely minimal overlap between the amount of people buying the game and those who would be aware of the promises of future patches. I doubt it was a significant factor in the purchasing decisions for more than a handful of people.

If you were complaining about the lack of Co-op, then that would be more significant, that's a direct promised feature that hasn't been delivered. Otherwise - what are the exact things that people are buying the game for and not getting?

I certainly think that on PC/PS3/360 there aren't any urgent bug fixes - bugs and plenty of things that need work, but rarely are there things that break the game. On PS4/Xbox One, it's another matter - there's some game breaking bugs there, which I expect are the priority right now. The problem is that until they fix it and get the patch through the submission process, all they can say is 'coming soon' with no date and no real answers.

They could come on here, give an excuse for not patching it yet and get yelled at a bit, but what do they gain from that?
 
the issue is we're now a year on, the support has evaporated

honestly, that's nonsense - you have no evidence that they are not supporting the game. the fact that a patch has not yet been released does not mean that the patch is not being worked on. @Ross has confirmed relatively recently that Patch 3 is in ongoing development alongside a sequel. It's no secret that Ross and I have not always seen eye to eye but seriously, what part of his previous conduct on this forum leads you to think that statement was false? (additionally, you have seen @MattW confirm that an issue on xbox one is needing to be looked at separately, is a separate patch from "patch 3" and the submission process of that fix is holding everything up - the very fact that the game is still being supported is evidence to you that support has evaporated, which is slightly bizarre.)

this game was in development for years... patch 3 is almost certainly to be the last major support patch (they always said about an 18 month support cycle), and is hopefully broad in scope so the idea that the patch would/could come quickly betrays a serious misunderstanding of software development.

yes, it would be great if there was a bit more communication at present, but equally we had a couple of years of daily engagement from the CEO of a developer pre and post release - that was never going to be sustainable. if less posts and less info lets them fix the major xb1/ps4 issues, produce a solid patch that resolves the main issues with the game and do solid work on a sequel while also doing the work on other titles that keeps the moolah rolling in, it's a small price to pay.
 

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