Puddle Mafia 04 - Endgame Mafia (barmyarmy, BKB, RPHKR win)

[Papa_Smurf]

Yeah, I agree with Abhas PD.

 

[puddleduck]

Extension granted.

 

[Papa_Smurf]

Good, gives thedon a chance to explain his hesitancy for leading a lynch as well.

 

[Sedition]

Some good points raised about Zhuorb and thedon. I was willing to give them both some town credit for lynching Aditya, but for Zhuorb especially it's started to run out after his 1 or 2 posts the entire game day.

Not gonna harp on the same things, but..

I'd let you guys know the simple tactic Manly and I had. Both of us wanted to make sure that at no point, anyone has even the slightest of the idea that we're working together. Hence, he lynched me which I suggested him to do. He did so and then we were waiting for Sedition's reaction to his lynch. Sedition of course had no questions/issues. He didn't even raise the question about why was Manly so quick to lynch me, when he had been gunning for Trev all along, no one did but as Sedition's been so called "very aggressive", I'd expect him to notice this.

Manly had lynched Trev, I suggested him to change his lynch to me. This is what he posted "Ok man, I'll wait for someone to convince me to change my vote. Maybe get Sedition for some more reasoning and I'll swap to you.". He did do that later. Manly also posted in QT "The longer the game goes on and the more he posts the more I'm sure Colin is mafia. It's a completely different style he's using to normal.". I totally agreed/agree to that. This is his last post in the QT "Colin trying to postpone the hammer and saying someone is 'foolish' for doing so smacks of a mafia defending his teammate. Almost certain."

To sum up, we both were agreeing upon the fact that Sedition and Colin are working together. Sedition is playing a totally different game from his usual style and so is Colin and hence when Manly died, I continued with my suspicion on Sedition, in a even more aggressive way.

I honestly have no idea what you're talking about with Manly lynching you. Am I supposed to question or have issues with every one that places a random lynch? Who else didn't question it or supposedly have issues? Surely I wasn't the only one. But you had it in your head that I must be mafia because I cast suspicion on you after you added nothing of value on Day 1 and hadn't responded to Day 2 at all for a day and half, which is more than enough reason for me to question you.

I agree that Colin hasn't been himself and I pointed out where I cast suspicions on him myself, which you somehow missed even though you were watching my posts for mentions of Manly lynching you.

 

[thedon5]

Posting my reply in a sec, reading through.

 

[thedon5]

Treva's roleclaim seems pretty solid to me.

Unlynch: Treva

Reading the last few pages, the one thing that jumps out to me is thedon. He's done so much bandwagon jumping, it seems like he's desperate for a lynch. He even suggested lynching Aditya after his mason claim. Might actually quote all of his jumps.

Lynch:thedon5

So much bandwagon jumping? I'm afraid I can't explain this. What I can explain though, is that the lynches I have been putting in haven't simply been following the crowd. It's been fuelled by genuine suspicion and evidence. If you look back on all my lynches, I have given explicit reasoning for all of them. If you want to see some world class bandwagoning, take a look at Zhuorb's posts - almost no reasoning whatsoever, he even says he's jumping the bandwagon! I'm also sure there are numerous others who haven't started a lynch obviously, yet they've just been less active, surely they would be more suspicious, both for that reason, and their lack of activity. Zhuorb is the obvious one, RPHKR as well off the top of my head.

What's more, I didn't even know BKB had lynched Zhuorb when I lynched him, it was two pages back I think and I didn't remember when lynching him, I looked back and posted it in a later post. I suppose I can bring up a bit of proof. Here, lynching Aditya, I said "I agree" to start my post, indicating I was replying to or reaffirming someone else's thoughts.

I agree. Perhaps there is a chance he is a cop who is perhaps just playing poorly, but the fact is, he is adding little to the game and his behaviour has been very scummy. His constant self defence posts in reply to relatively small suspicions at various times aren't helping his cause either. Anyway, those are my reasons, as well as the reasons I posted in the previous pages.

Lynch: Aditya

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I am still wary though - last game Aditya was playing just like this and I was almost convinced he was Mafia, yet he turned out being the doc. The "it's how he plays" argument being thrown about is still valid to some extent, so I still feel he deserves a chance to try and improve his defence, but still, it's not looking good for him.

Unlych: Treva

Lynch: Zhuorb

I don't fully believe treva's claim, partly because "we won't believe it" as he said, but I want to pressure Zhuorb - he's added nothing whatsoever all game, has been bandwagoning and has been generally inactive. Perhaps providing all his meaningful analysis to the Mafia QT?

Here, I clearly don't say "I agree" or anything in reply to someone who I thought was on the same wavelength as me at the time, as I didn't think there were any! It may not be the most solid evidence, but it's all I could find really.

I was the first to go after Aditya on day 2 or day 3 I think it was. That isn't bandwagoning.

Lynches Aditya, but only after Sedition lynches him first. Despite saying how he found him suspicious earlier on.



In the exact same post he lynches Treva, he still suggests lynching Aditya, despite thinking he's a townie.

And note - he only lynches Treva after I place the first lynch on him.



Lynches Zhuorub, despite not being fully convinced of Treva's roleclaim.

And note again - only lynches him after BKB has.

The fact that he's so reluctant to initiate lynches suggests to me that he's scared of being seen as the main culprit behind what is most likely a townie lynch. Really scummy behavior.

He's done the same in Day 1 and 2 as well. Only lynched when there was a bandwagon going on - the no lynch on Day 1 and the Smurf lynch on Day 2.

OK now I'll go through this.

With the Aditya lynch, I wanted to see others' views before going after him, since fact is, he often does things like that and I wanted to see what others believed - is that how he plays, or is it scummy behaviour? That indecision was justified, as I do now believe he is most likely town. People had been mentioning this prior to his attack on Sedition as well.

Please direct me to the post where I lynched Aditya and treva in the exact same post, I can't find it. I was still suggesting lynching Aditya, since his gameplay was so poor that I thought there was still a good chance he was Mafia, and I was saying it was worth the gamble, in case it was a fake claim, which I thought there was a good chance of at the time (I no longer think that though).

On the treva unlynch, I was hesitant to believe it tbh, because of his words "you wouldn't believe it", and I said in that post that is why I still had doubts. That is an incredibly strange thing to say about a perfectly legitimate role-claim, I think you'll agree. But anyway, that was the only doubt I had, it was a solid role-claim so I was ready to move on from there, onto a guy consistently adding nothing to the game whatsoever. Someone who is guilty of committing even more scummy acts than the ones you accuse me of.

Anyway I hope that is enough to convince you you are wrong. In any case this may be poor town play on my part, I still don't know exactly how to act to avoid looking scummy tbh.

 

[Sedition]

Someone mentioned the point about Zhuorb not yet claiming when under quite a bit of pressure, and yeah that is definitely something out of character for when he's been town the last few games.

Thedon I'm much less suspicious of today since he did help keep the game flowing at different points on this game day, when I figure he could just have stayed out of sight. The lynching Aditya even if he's a mason thing is a bit weird, but I can understand that he's not convinced about him given his play.

 

[BKB1991]

Hmm your last post got me thinking. Zhuorb does usually claim early. Miller last game remember? Especially when he gets a usually pro-town role.

I am hoping we get something out of this, we have pointed loads of fingers but yet to reach common ground on anyone.

 

[thedon5]

Someone mentioned the point about Zhuorb not yet claiming when under quite a bit of pressure, and yeah that is definitely something out of character for when he's been town the last few games.

Thedon I'm much less suspicious of today since he did help keep the game flowing at different points on this game day, when I figure he could just have stayed out of sight. The lynching Aditya even if he's a mason thing is a bit weird, but I can understand that he's not convinced about him given his play.

Exactly, especially as at the time he wasn't giving any info on Manly's thoughts and he also, his play was just so damn poor that there was a good chance he was Mafia.

We should be going after the guys adding absolutely nothing to the game, or the inactive guys, rather than wasting time on the most active contributors.

 

[ste_mc_efc]

Hmm your last post got me thinking. Zhuorb does usually claim early. Miller last game remember? Especially when he gets a usually pro-town role.

I am hoping we get something out of this, we have pointed loads of fingers but yet to reach common ground on anyone.

just as a sort of an aside not a comment about the actual game more on the game structure. i think that is exactly what PD wanted. minimal public write-up to get speculation rife.

I know he likes the game dark souls, and to be honest this game sort of reminds me of that a bit. we don't really know what is going on, we have a vague idea due to the general goal but few details to go on. maybe a coincidence but i think he is probably aware of the similarities himself.

 

[Sedition]

Another point about game structure that I've been thinking is that PD hasn't exactly been randomising the roles in past games either. He chose myself and Abhas as mafia in the last game believing us to be a strong team, and in my case, probably also because I hadn't been mafia in any of the 8 or so games I've played.

This can be a problem if players are able to figure out what roles PD might think will suit certain players. In Aditya's case, if his claim is true, maybe he was made a mason with a partner so at least one person can clear him because he often comes under attack from the town thinking he's scum.

Abhas played mafia pretty well, and despite suspicions from Colin, he ultimately chose me as the scummiest to busdrive our attack back onto. Without the SK taking Abhas out, who knows how far he'd have gotten.

BKB played well also as town last game, so giving him the SK role also makes sense, and again without scum targeting scum, he may have gone deeper into this game with the role.

Some roles may have been assigned randomly, but if PD was looking for a strong mafia team, then Colin and Abhas stand out the most to me. Zhuorb is possible too since he's pretty hard to get a read on and the one game I remember him playing very well was when he was mafia and booked the win.

 

[ste_mc_efc]

Another point about game structure that I've been thinking is that PD hasn't exactly been randomising the roles in past games either. He chose myself and Abhas as mafia in the last game believing us to be a strong team, and in my case, probably also because I hadn't been mafia in any of the 8 or so games I've played.

This can be a problem if players are able to figure out what roles PD might think will suit certain players. In Aditya's case, if his claim is true, maybe he was made a mason with a partner so at least one person can clear him because he often comes under attack from the town thinking he's scum.

Abhas played mafia pretty well, and despite suspicions from Colin, he ultimately chose me as the scummiest to busdrive our attack back onto. Without the SK taking Abhas out, who knows how far he'd have gotten.

BKB played well also as town last game, so giving him the SK role also makes sense, and again without scum targeting scum, he may have gone deeper into this game with the role.

Some roles may have been assigned randomly, but if PD was looking for a strong mafia team, then Colin and Abhas stand out the most to me. Zhuorb is possible too since he's pretty hard to get a read on and the one game I remember him playing very well was when he was mafia and booked the win.

i was quite suspicious of you up until this post, obviously i haven't played his previous games but there are others who could prove the details of this wrong easily and i doubt a mafia player would say anything like ever as it isn't trying to go anywhere other than offer pro-town analysis. sick props to you for this one post if you end up being scum.

 

[BKB1991]

I see where you are coming from Sedition and it makes sense. I see chosen as a SK made sense to me. I also believe that not all the roles were completely randomised. Possibly PD chose a few roles and randomised the rest.

However, I stress the importance on focusing on gameplay more than anything else. It is very easy to deflect on other non factors - but if you can read the game well then focusing on gameplay is the best way to find a mafia - even at times better than roleclaims and character claims.

I am thinking of backup theories incase the idea to lynch Zhuorb fails. The time he is taking could be used by his supposed mafia buddies to help him come up with a claim. But if his claim isnt cc, we do need to go back into alternate theories, as we do not have much time left.

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Being chosen*

 

[Sedition]

i was quite suspicious of you up until this post, obviously i haven't played his previous games but there are others who could prove the details of this wrong easily and i doubt a mafia player would say anything like ever as it isn't trying to go anywhere other than offer pro-town analysis. sick props to you for this one post if you end up being scum.

There has been a method to my madness in this game, but your post about me being arrogant made me realise that I've probably overstepped the balance of being erratic enough that the mafia won't night kill me, and the town won't lynch me. Also considering there was some good discussion while I slept, I'm far less aggravated today at the people who hadn't posted much previously.

If I've managed to get myself onto the right track today, then I don't mind too much if more people believe I'm town and the mafia are forced to rub me out, as my posts can then be looked at with a clear view.

But anyway, maybe PD did infact randomise the roles, but I thought it was worth mentioning because some pieces are starting to fit in my mind.

 

[puddleduck]

You all have until I get home from work tomorrow evening (will be a late finish) and then I'm going to night regardless of whether you've all found a majority. Also, can people not reveal who they were and role if they get lynched