Super 8: 16th Match India v WI

[King Cricket]

They have atleast faced Edwards, and that's the thing. They will feel pressure, we are helpless, but call this bias towards my country, call this anything- I think that India might just clinch this one. Though, a lot depends on the Gayle factor, and there aren't too many differences between India and the WI, specially when the format's name is T-20. But I think India has just that upper edge in this one.

 

[Howsie]

Nah you?re not biased, you?re just a passionate fan.

 

[King Cricket]

Yup. That's true.

 

[King Pietersen]

No he doesn?t, I?ve seen Gayle play some real good innings while facing top class spinners. In New Zealand he was able to deal with Vettori pretty easily.

KC's got a point actually. Gayle's yet to score a hundred when facing a truely world class Test spinner. Vettori certainly isn't a class Test spinner, and the only other spinners of note he's scored hundreds against are Boje (made 302), Panesar (made 109) and Swann (made 102), none of which are top class spinners. The best is Swann, and he's nothing more than decent. He did make an 88 in India against Kumble and Harbhajan, but that was on a very flat pitch, and he made another 83 against them, but that was on another flat track in the 1st innings.

In ODi's he made a hundred in India on a pitch where India chased 325, and the figures indicate he didn't play Harbhajan too well, as he only went for 30 from his 10 overs, with Kartik also going at only 4.6 an over. He eventually got out to Sehwag as well. Also made a hundred at Napier against Vettori, who is a very good ODi spinner. He's also made a few hundreds in India, but batting first up against the new ball in India is always the best time to bat, and all but 1 of his hundreds have come on 300 pitches.

He's yet to make a hundred against Murali in either form, never made a hundred against Warne, didn't make a hundred against Kumble in Test cricket. The only genuinely good spinner he's made runs against is 1 hundred against Vettori in New Zealand in an ODi. There's certainly no statistical evidence to prove that Gayle's good against spin.

 

[jazz]

The only thing I can see West Indies being poor is in fielding. They could drop a few catches. India is a strong team though and this is there first real test of the tournament. Whereas West Indies have played Australia and Sri Lanka. For that reason I’m going for a West

Vettori certainly isn't a class Test spinner,

I think you have got that one wrong mate. He is a class Test spinner

 

[King Pietersen]

Class ODi and T20 spinner, but Vettori's not got a great Test record by any means. Take out his wickets against Bangladesh and Zimbabwe and he has a Test average of over 37. If that's class, then MSP's one of the best in the world.

 

[Howsie]

KC's got a point actually. Gayle's yet to score a hundred when facing a truely world class Test spinner. Vettori certainly isn't a class Test spinner, and the only other spinners of note he's scored hundreds against are Boje (made 302), Panesar (made 109) and Swann (made 102), none of which are top class spinners. The best is Swann, and he's nothing more than decent. He did make an 88 in India against Kumble and Harbhajan, but that was on a very flat pitch, and he made another 83 against them, but that was on another flat track in the 1st innings.

In ODi's he made a hundred in India on a pitch where India chased 325, and the figures indicate he didn't play Harbhajan too well, as he only went for 30 from his 10 overs, with Kartik also going at only 4.6 an over. He eventually got out to Sehwag as well. Also made a hundred at Napier against Vettori, who is a very good ODi spinner. He's also made a few hundreds in India, but batting first up against the new ball in India is always the best time to bat, and all but 1 of his hundreds have come on 300 pitches.

He's yet to make a hundred against Murali in either form, never made a hundred against Warne, didn't make a hundred against Kumble in Test cricket. The only genuinely good spinner he's made runs against is 1 hundred against Vettori in New Zealand in an ODi. There's certainly no statistical evidence to prove that Gayle's good against spin.

King Pietersen how many of these innings did you actually witness?

The best is Swann, and he's nothing more than decent

Swann a better test bowler then Vettori, I don't think so.

 

[King Cricket]

The only thing I can see West Indies being poor is in fielding

They lack a class spinner as well. Benn certainly isn't a class guy, and the Indians are brestfed on spin. I expect our batters to deal with Benn easily. Another is Gayle, but he is just a part-timer- and in T-20's he can be pretty expensive.

 

[Howsie]

The only thing I can see West Indies being poor is in fielding. They could drop a few catches. India is a strong team though and this is there first real test of the tournament. Whereas West Indies have played Australia and Sri Lanka. For that reason I?m going for a West



I think you have got that one wrong mate. He is a class Test spinner

Nah KP"s right here Vettori is a massively overrated test bowler.

 

[jazz]

Well they have Sarwan and Chanderpaul who are good players of spin. So I can see them doing well against Indian Spinners.

 

[Themer]

Nah KP"s right here Vettori is a massively overrated test bowler.

Vettori is overrated a tad in Test matches I have to agree, in ODIs however he's one of the best imo.

 

[King Pietersen]

King Pietersen how many of these innings did you actually witness?

Not too many of them, but I have seen Gayle bat, and how you can say he's good against spin is beyond me. His lack of footwork doesn't find him out too often against seam, unless the ball's moving, but against spinners his foot movement is often poor. I don't need to have seen every single one of Gayle's innings to know he's not a great player of spin. I've watched enough of him to make a judgement, and have the benefit of the statistical sway.

Swann a better test bowler then Vettori, I don't think so.

Care to point out where I said Swann's a better Test bowler than Vettori? I didn't, I said he's the best of Panesar, Boje and him. Swann's not a better Test bowler yet, but he could be in a year when he's played a good few games. Vettori is not a class Test bowler.

 

[jazz]

Nah KP"s right here Vettori is a massively overrated test bowler.

I don’t think he is. He plays on wickets which heavily favour fasting bowling. Infact I think his done really well on the NZ pitches with it not favouring him at all.

I agree his not a big match winner like Warne was or Murali but he does get the vital wickets.

 

[King Cricket]

He is a class Test spinner

Dan is actually right here. He is a great T-20 and ODI spinner, none of us can deny that- but when it comes to tests, he cannot be called class. He averages 33+ in tests, and if I leave out Zimbabwe and Bangladesh, he averages jumps up to 37+. If I further leave out West Indies, his avg becomes nearly 40. He averages over 100 (!!) against Pakistan, nearly 70 against South Africa, nearly 55 against India, nearly 40 aginst England and 35+ against Australia. He averages under 20 against just two teams- West Indies and Sri Lanka. I know we cannot base everything on stats, he still remains a good bowler, but he's just not "class" in tests.

 

[King Pietersen]

I don?t think he is. He plays on wickets which heavily favour fasting bowling. Infact I think his done really well on the NZ pitches with it not favouring him at all.

I agree his not a big match winner like Warne was or Murali but he does get the vital wickets.

Care to explain his bowling average of 38 outside NZ then?