The wishlist thread

[superfreddie]

Wow, thanks for the reply CHEIF, I'm chuffed to bits you read my post let alone liked the idea.

Just to confirm the concept works I have dusted off my old copy of IC10 and had my friend cover the pitch with a piece of card until the bowler was about to bowl and then he removed it. It feels so instinctive to have a short time to decide what to do. Removing the card at different times really does effect the difficulty of playing the ball.

Please, please say you'll consider using the idea, I know many gamers will make it easy for themselves, but I for one love a challenge and would make it difficult enough to get those close finishes to games that most people love and crave.

Also I know I'm being greedy but, I had a couple of other small gripes from IC10. I like to create legendary players in the edit mode and because there was an attribute points limit on players it was impossible to create allrounders such as Botham and Imran Khan because you couldn't make them good at batting, bowling and feilding. Also greater flexibility on faces, height and size would be great, xxl for Botham me thinks.

 

[Chief]

Wow, thanks for the reply CHEIF, I'm chuffed to bits you read my post let alone liked the idea.

Obviously I can't reply to everything, but if you've posted anything on here about Cricket Games in the past 7 years... I've probably read it and thought about it.

Just to confirm the concept works I have dusted off my old copy of IC10 and had my friend cover the pitch with a piece of card until the bowler was about to bowl and then he removed it. It feels so instinctive to have a short time to decide what to do. Removing the card at different times really does effect the difficulty of playing the ball.

Ingenious! A great man (indeed many) have said that, in theory, all good games design should work on paper. You've taken this to a very literal level! When I was a young man, for split screen games my friends and I would split the TV signal from my Atari onto two TV's (back to back) and cover the non-player side with thick card to deny "screen peepers".
If it's not in the game already, creative gamers find a way to fix it as best they can.

Also I know I'm being greedy but, I had a couple of other small gripes from IC10. I like to create legendary players in the edit mode and because there was an attribute points limit on players it was impossible to create allrounders such as Botham and Imran Khan because you couldn't make them good at batting, bowling and feilding. Also greater flexibility on faces, height and size would be great, xxl for Botham me thinks.

The attribute points were obviously there to stop people creating SUPERHUMANS and exploiting the game. But I take your point: some players just ARE superhuman! Will take this into consideration: thanks again for your input.

 

[Chief]

I have been editing Cricket 2007's gameplay since quite a bit of time and I have realized that apart from the awful animations the game has real depth in it the way it was made..The thing was that it wasn't really tweaked perfectly...Cricket 2007's AI paces it's innings in just one way which causes it to play like idiots sometimes not considering the match situation. So there needs to be more Else If used in the gameplay...The bowling speed should be realtime like in Cricket 07...Animations are probably the most important thing in a sports game so that needs to be real good too...And Cricket 07 is still alive for a reason the reason being it's very patchable...We could access the files easily and edit them but as of I know there are no separate AI files in Ashes Cricket 2009..So there should be a separate roster file and separate gameplay files not like Ashes 2009 where editing only the database file can bring a few minor changes in the gameplay..I hope this message would be passed on somehow to the developers...

There's lots of bits in here to deal with, but it all falls around one particular area... Firstly, let me say that what I'm about to say is my personal understanding of the legalities, and not necessarily accurate, but worth bringing up for discussion.

Modding is an area fraught with potential dangers. Console aside (I won't comment on that as it's a different kettle of fish, and I don't have nearly enough info to know about it) it all depends on what is contained within the EULA (End-User License Agreement) that you probably agree to on many games when you install them (it's the bit you scroll quickly through and click "ACCEPT" without reading, if you're anything like me!)
The license agreement forms a contract between you and the copyright owners of the game. They vary, but most of them will include specific agreements that you will not COPY or DISTRIBUTE the game (obviously), but usually that you will also not MODIFY or CREATE WORKS from the software.

I say it varies from game to game: some games encourage it (indeed, some games DEPEND upon it for longevity) and others actively combat it. But if your EULA states that you agree not to do those things, then you shouldn't technically be doing them.

There are many reasons why publishers have to do this, including making sure that they are not legally culpable if YOU do something breaching that agreement.

An example (and this is totally made up for illustration purposes only): You change the textures on a licensed bat of a licensed player in the game. You then upload a video of it to YouTube (NB: Was there a clause in the EULA about reproducing the copyrighted work, or one that about "public performance"? If so, that's ALSO a breach of the agreement.) For whatever it reason it goes viral, and before the publisher can have the copyrighted footage removed, the bat manufacturer see their star player playing with the wrong bat, clearly breaching their agreement with the publisher. The publisher can only protect itself by pointing out that it is not THEIR breach of contract, but instead that of the end user.
My understanding of this is that the publisher needs to cover itself so that anything that an end user does (because potentially they COULD do ALL SORTS of things) that alters their game is in no way their fault.

This of course only applies to products which potentially have tertiary interests: something like Skyrim, for example, which I believe is completely 100% copyright owned by the publisher/developer, can offer extensive modification options and sometimes they even PROVIDE tools with which to modify the game. But if there are more copyrights involved, then the publisher cannot encourage you to change it. Hence why the licensed players in previous cricket games cannot have names or attributes edited, but generic players can.

Now how many times in history has this been actually ENFORCED? I would suspect not many. But technically, my reading of it is that if you have accepted a EULA which prohibited changing the game, then the responsibility for any changes made would be on you should the publisher, or any interested party, raise it as a concern.



I'm sure there will be more questions on this, so I'll stop rambling. But before you respond, I would encourage you to read a random EULA from a game you have seen modded in the past and decide whether you think, from a legal point of view, it was allowed or not...

 

[Gone4aDuck]

The attribute points were obviously there to stop people creating SUPERHUMANS and exploiting the game. But I take your point: some players just ARE superhuman! Will take this into consideration: thanks again for your input.

Sometimes you had to create SUPERHUMANS anyway. The system made you use every skill point. If I was to make a player have realistic batting/bowling. He would have to be "superman" in the field just to use up his skill points.
The hardest thing to make was a good quality all rounder.
At the end of the day I realise you are trying to make it harder for people to have an easy time of it. But the chances are the majority of people that buy your game will be true cricket fans. And we want a challenge. So if we cheat the game, we cheat ourselves.
Any game won by lowering players stats to make it easy may result in a win. But a very shallow win it will be.
I would request a rethink of the points system when editing. Just let us edit them to whatever we see fit to make the game enjoyable for the individual.
I don't know about anyone else. But I'm pretty sure at least 90% of people on here would edit the players to be as realistic as possible. Not just lower the stats so they can win with ease.

 

[Chief]

I don't know about anyone else. But I'm pretty sure at least 90% of people on here would edit the players to be as realistic as possible. Not just lower the stats so they can win with ease.

Yeah. I know. I played PES happily for many years where I *could* have maxed out all their stats, but who would I have been cheating?
The same as those old "Choose Your Own Adventure" books - skip to a different page when you found out you'd made the wrong decision and you were only cheating yourself *shows age*.

So long as edited players can't be used online, then you could always hit your friend with a controller if they cheated you offline...

I'll bear it in mind chaps.

 

[Kaos110]

one thing that always comes into my mind, besides all the copyright issues, in how far is a publisher of a game interested in offering editing possibilities?! i mean, as a publisher you want me to buy your next years edition of the game aswell (a fact that i completly understand cause as a publisher you have to make money in the end) and you definatley dont want me to play one of your releases for years just because i?m able to edit it in every possible way i want to. hope you understand my point although my english is quite terrible!

just to ensure what i mean let me give you one example.
mlb 2k12 the show is from my point a really really great and realitsic game. i don?t think i would buy 2k13 if i was able to edit 2k12 in all important ways (new trikots, player names etc.).
the only reason to buy 2k13 would be massive new things in the game, but to be realistic, i don?t expect them in the upcoming version. slight changes in gameplay and control but that should be it.

 

[zimrahil]

The same as those old "Choose Your Own Adventure" books - skip to a different page when you found out you'd made the wrong decision and you were only cheating yourself *shows age*.

.

Ah those Ian Livingstone books were epic. Used to pinch a read whilst in class as they were so absorbing. They had some many different 'endings' could read the same book for hours on end

 

[superfreddie]

Yeah. I know. I played PES happily for many years where I *could* have maxed out all their stats, but who would I have been cheating?
.

Man I spent hours editing PES on the PS2, if I had a cricket game even close to the editing capabilities of that game I would be in heaven.

 

[AnkitC]

Fair enough @Chief...But What problem can it cause if only the gameplay files are editable..That too accessible to people only with a bit of knowledge...Because Cricket 07's gameplay too is editable but over the years we have seen only around 4-5 gameplay makers..And that wouldn't probably lead to any legal problems I hope...

 

[zeustrojanstark]

Yes you are right and i feel this should me mapped with game settings and players attribute as well.

Maybe they can incorporate a bluffmaker too.Random bowling cursors shall appear,so we wont even get a split second where to go.This will eventually lead to hell a lot of edgy shots that will fly all over the place.

 

[Chief]

Fair enough @Chief...But What problem can it cause if only the gameplay files are editable..That too accessible to people only with a bit of knowledge...Because Cricket 07's gameplay too is editable but over the years we have seen only around 4-5 gameplay makers..And that wouldn't probably lead to any legal problems I hope...

Another scenario then... Someone posts YouTube video of the game running with their gameplay tweaks, with which they have completely broken the game. National TV station (OK: so this one is a stretch, I admit!) or prominent games site thinks it's funny and links to it. Hundreds (maybe thousands) of people see a massively broken game and it becomes a laughing stock... Sales dry to a halt. Who is responsible for the loss of earnings that this has caused?

Certainly I can think of a past game I'd worked on where an editor was REMOVED not long before launch because if you wanted to you could do REALLY wacky things to the physics etc, and make it look ridiculous. Certainly that's nothing a publisher would want to encourage.

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one thing that always comes into my mind, besides all the copyright issues, in how far is a publisher of a game interested in offering editing possibilities?! i mean, as a publisher you want me to buy your next years edition of the game aswell (a fact that i completly understand cause as a publisher you have to make money in the end) and you definatley dont want me to play one of your releases for years just because i?m able to edit it in every possible way i want to. hope you understand my point although my english is quite terrible!

1) Your English is FINE! It's much better than my... ANYTHING else.
2) In my experience I've never known a situation where an editor is deliberately omit because they think it would hamper sales of a following game, which I *think* is what you're suggesting might be something they have in mind?
It's always down to licensing issues where copyright is owned by someone else. And this goes for Players, Sponsors, Equipment, Uniforms, Stadiums... There's all sorts of reasons why they wouldn't want anyone interfering with their brand. An extreme example: someone edits a licensed golf course and puts abusive sponsorship boards around a hole: If a screenshot got out, it looks very bad for the course.
If you mod something, the publisher would in my experience turn a blind eye... BUT if suddenly that golf course came to them and demanded retribution, it would be you who was culpable.

 

[barmyarmy]

In my experience cricket modders are often giving firms free publicity by adding new ad boards etc. I always felt we should have invoiced some of the firms we made ad boards, stumps and pitch ads for in the EA series

 

[AnkitC]

Certainly I can think of a past game I'd worked on where an editor was REMOVED not long before launch because if you wanted to you could do REALLY wacky things to the physics etc, and make it look ridiculous. Certainly that's nothing a publisher would want to encourage.

Ya it's pretty much possible but then Popular titles like Fifa are also editable...Nothing such has yet happened to the game but still I can understand that there are complications for you guys too...But I do hope that the game is made keeping complexities like match situation,etc in mind..Thank you...

 

[SibiNaayagam]

In my experience cricket modders are often giving firms free publicity by adding new ad boards etc. I always felt we should have invoiced some of the firms we made ad boards, stumps and pitch ads for in the EA series

Chief, how about this?
The copyright owners don't want their licenses to be misused, hence denies modifying capabilities. But the modding community wants to modify it to their liking.
Now, wouldn't it be logical to sign an agreement where the modding community is allowed to modify while following certain guidelines where only 'abuse' of the copyright will not be tolerated. And thereby can modify to promote their material?
Plus, the modds primarily look to attain realism than fiction, hence wouldn't it be viable?

 

[Allrounder18]

@Chief
Sorry to say mate but all of the reason you gave for lack of edit-ability are pretty much lame (except the license issue one), look at the sales of PES , have they gone down due to some shitty patches made by the users??? I understand that you guys wouldn't want the game to be editable as C07 and I completely agree with you.