Australia in England - 2009 Ashes Tour

[RoboRocks]

Hughes should be fine in swinging conditions. This match Cricinfo - Tasmania v New South Wales at Hobart, Dec 2-4, 2008 pretty much showed he is more than capable of producing the goods when the ball is swinging as Hobart is known for swing and this season has been the hardest pitch to score runs on.

England will be different to Tasmania since the length will be a lot fuller. Looking at Hilfenhaus bow, he bowls a good length instead of an full length. When Hughes drives his foot doesn't get to the pitch of the ball and it's mostly down to hand and eyes, and with good swing bowling, he will be undone unless he does improve his footwork and I think Australia have got to look at this.

If he can't improve his footwork then he'll have to take a step back and wait for the half volley to come along and leave the ball alone well early on in his innings. Something Marcus Trescothick did well for England in past years.

 

[aussie_ben91]

If you'd be watching Hughes bat for the past series then you'd see that the South African bowlers having been swinging it in late and have been seaming it off the pitch. Hughes hasn't be troubled by any of it. That's why I rate him so high.

 

[aussie1st]

England will be different to Tasmania since the length will be a lot fuller. Looking at Hilfenhaus bow, he bowls a good length instead of an full length. When Hughes drives his foot doesn't get to the pitch of the ball and it's mostly down to hand and eyes, and with good swing bowling, he will be undone unless he does improve his footwork and I think Australia have got to look at this.

If he can't improve his footwork then he'll have to take a step back and wait for the half volley to come along and leave the ball alone well early on in his innings. Something Marcus Trescothick did well for England in past years.

You don't average 60+ on a swinging ground like the SCG by fluke. His technique works for him and so far he hasn't had any problems handling the best pace bowler in the world who has been swinging it like crazy this series. His only weakness so far has been trying to smash the bowlers out of the ground.

Sehwag is another player that relies on hand eye co-ordination, Martyn was another so Hughes isn't the first batter not to have great footwork but still be a hit at this level.

 

[King Pietersen]

But as Rob said, the difference is, in South Africa and Australia, the bowlers get the ball to swing from a slightly shorter length, giving the batsman that extra split second to pick up the swing and adjust. In England the bowlers have to bowl a fuller length to get that swing, and if you've got someone like James Anderson or Andrew Flintoff or possibly even Simon Jones, swinging the ball at 87mph+ on a full length, you're not going to have much time to react. Playing in England will be far more testing for Hughes, as the pitches in South Africa appear to be very Australian in their appearance, and in what is happening off them. The green tinged pitches of England will certainly offer different challenges.

1 big challenge that Hughes will also have to overcome is one that troubled the Australian's last time they were in England, Flintoff's reverse swing to left handers. He had the Australian lefties in whole heaps of trouble, by bowling round the wicket, moving the ball in with reverse swing, and then getting the ball to straighten off the surface. It was something he used against Gilchrist particularly well.

I'm not going to make any brash statements like Hughes is going to fail, or anything stupid like that, but it'll certainly be a big challenge for the guy, it's lucky he's being offered the chance to get used to the conditions for Middlesex though, muppets.

 

[karnog]

I will add that Hughes may struggle against left arm spin. Someone like Swann (if fit) would be the danger man. To me the key man is James Anderson. If we get through him we're set for 500. Flintoff has never been a big wicket taker and to me Broad is no where near his potential. Swann is dangerous but i dont know how helpful the pitches will be for him. England's batting hasn't clicked together on bowler friendly pitches (although i'm sure the confidence is up considering the mamoth totals they've made in the West Indies). KP should be pushed to 3. Without doubt. Put in Shah, Bell or even an old Vaughan and its a waste of a wicket. The quickier he's in the better the middle order can be.

Overall Australia look a stronger side. But England have the fire power to create an upset. England have a decent spinner or two as well which to me could be the lynch pin for success. But we've got good players of spin in the side: Katich, Clarke, Hussey and Ponting. Should be a good series.

 

[aussie_ben91]

Yeah, the excuses from the poms will be 'Oh, if he didn't play for Middlesex then he wouldn't of dominated us and we would've won the Ashes'.

KP, if you watch Dale Steyn bowl then you'll realise that Steyn pitches the ball up and gets driven allot. Apart from his first innings, Hughes has hammered Steyn, who has been pitching the ball up and swinging it at a fast pace. Hughes hasn't had an extra 'split second' when it has come to Dale Steyn, who is a far better bowler then anyone from England. Also, pitches in SA are more greener then the ones in England, which often get called 'flat' nowadays.

What I also don't get is how many people say that Broad has potential? I've seen nothing from him to say that his got outrageous talent. Is it because he takes wickets from batsman playing loose shots in ODI cricket? People use to have a crack at Mitch Johnson when it came to taking 'flukey' wickets but Stuart Broad is the king when it comes to taking 'flukey' wickets. Broad looks like one of those players who is only in the team because his dad used to play for England.

 

[King Pietersen]

Before I attempt to form an argument in favour of Broad. Have you seen any of his bowling against West Indies on awful, flat slow wickets?

 

[aussie_ben91]

I saw a bit've it. He looked to be struggling at times and didn't look at that convincing. Also saw acouple of his wickets come from absolutely appauling shots from the batsman that you wouldn't see from a better batting lineup.

Also, I've seen him bowl to better batting lineups then the West Indies in more favourable conditions and he has been absolutely "mullered" as evertonfan would say.

 

[King Pietersen]

Well you obviously didn't see enough. Broad was the standout bowler as far as figures go. He was consistently threatening, bowled good areas, got abit of movement, and bowled to the captains plans. James Anderson and Fidel Edwards probably bowled a couple of better spells, but Broad was definitely the most consistent bowler on both sides, as proven by his figures for the series.

He has struggled in his previous series because he was thrown into Test cricket FAR too early, on the basis of 1 good season in FC cricket. He's then had to learn as he's gone along, and develop his bowling as he's gone on. He bowled well against South Africa, only struggling to pick up wickets in 2 innings of the series, both on flat pitches. On the 1 helpful pitch he was given, he took 5 wickets in the match, and looked very good. He also bowled well in New Zealand, but did struggle in the return series, not entirely sure why. May have just been a blip, although he only failed to take a wicket in 1 Test, the one at Old Trafford.

He's certainly shown improvement in recent times, and is starting to bowl alot better. His record may be currently poor, but he's had to bowl alot of his overs on incredibly flat tracks. Give him a year and he'll be averaging in the early 30's. He's got a fantastic ODi record, and he's starting to convert that into Test form. I wouldn't slag him off yet Ben, wait till you've seen him bowl properly before you make harsh judgements.

Broad's not been "mullered" by anyone either. He's got an economy of 3.13 in Tests. He's only gone at 4 an over twice in his Test career after bowling more than 10 overs, and he picked up wickets in both of those innings. So he's yet to be taken apart by a batting line-up. He outbowled Ishant Sharma at Mohali on a flat track. Sharma went at 4.58 in the first innings, taking 1/55 off 12 overs, Broad bowled far better, taking 1/84 off 26 overs, that's an economy of 3.23 when opening the bowling first up in India, against Sehwag, getting him out in the process. Broad's just been unlucky that since he's found his form he's had to bowl on incredibly flat tracks, if we get some tracks with something in them for the bowlers during The Ashes, Broad will show his talent.

 

[RoboRocks]

You don't average 60+ on a swinging ground like the SCG by fluke. His technique works for him and so far he hasn't had any problems handling the best pace bowler in the world who has been swinging it like crazy this series. His only weakness so far has been trying to smash the bowlers out of the ground.

Sehwag is another player that relies on hand eye co-ordination, Martyn was another so Hughes isn't the first batter not to have great footwork but still be a hit at this level.

As I said, the length will be much fuller in England as you encourage the drive. If Anderson and Sidebottom bowl in the right areas the Hughes is going to find it difficult.
He plays away from his body, and looking at Hughes throughout the series, he likes anything full and wide where he can throw his hands at the ball. You can do that in Australia, where the pitches are flat, and you can even do it in South Africa, where swing is minimal and you need to put the ball on a good length, but in England, Hughes can't expect to be flaying wide full length balls through the covers without big risk.
He'll have to either improve his footwork or be more selective in his strokeplay and wait for the genuine half volley.
Another thing I've spotted with Hughes is that he gets his head across the the offside to play the drives and I feel he is an lbw candidate if someone like Anderson swings the ball back into him.

About Martyn, he struggled in the 2005 Ashes series with the likes of Hoggard and Flintoff moving the ball away from him and he lack of foot movement got him into trouble. He would feel for the ball outside off-stump and edge it to the keeper.

 

[sifter132]

But as Rob said, the difference is, in South Africa and Australia, the bowlers get the ball to swing from a slightly shorter length, giving the batsman that extra split second to pick up the swing and adjust. In England the bowlers have to bowl a fuller length to get that swing, and if you've got someone like James Anderson or Andrew Flintoff or possibly even Simon Jones, swinging the ball at 87mph+ on a full length, you're not going to have much time to react. Playing in England will be far more testing for Hughes, as the pitches in South Africa appear to be very Australian in their appearance, and in what is happening off them. The green tinged pitches of England will certainly offer different challenges.

1 big challenge that Hughes will also have to overcome is one that troubled the Australian's last time they were in England, Flintoff's reverse swing to left handers. He had the Australian lefties in whole heaps of trouble, by bowling round the wicket, moving the ball in with reverse swing, and then getting the ball to straighten off the surface. It was something he used against Gilchrist particularly well.

I'm not going to make any brash statements like Hughes is going to fail, or anything stupid like that, but it'll certainly be a big challenge for the guy, it's lucky he's being offered the chance to get used to the conditions for Middlesex though, muppets.

Geez you guys are making it sound like English conditions and pitches are hell for batsmen. The reason it was hell in '05 for Australia was that England bowled bloody well (and rubbing the ball with breath mints/lozengers etc. ). They will need to bowl similarly brilliantly again to stay in the series. They certainly have the POTENTIAL too, but I'm not expecting them too.

Also check this article on Cricinfo, states clearly that South Africa is the hardest place to open in the last few years. Yes, backed up with cold hard facts...Looks like NZ pitches are more difficult than England too and it's certainly not because of their brilliant pace attack...

Cricinfo - The nightmare of opening in South Africa


Another factor: I would be surprised and gobsmacked if England prepares green tops. Australia can't find a spinner at all, preparing green tops would play into the Aussies hands. Either England prepare flat pitches and hope they outbat the Aussies, or they prepare bunsen burners and rely on Monty/Swann.

 

[Inbox24]

Agree with Sifter, they should produce flat tracks (although obviously not the ones in the Windies recently) so that their batsman have a chance of scoring big and putting pressure on our bats just like in the recently finished test. But again this works both ways.

 

[King Pietersen]

Lol, you're making out like England's batting line-up is woeful, and you're clearly over-rating your bowling attack. Slightly green pitches would be far better. England's batting is as good as it was in 2005, probably better with Prior in ahead of Jones. Our batting was saved by the top 2 (Straussy and Tresco) plus Pietersen and Flintoff. Bell had a shocker, Vaughan made 1 score of note and looked dreadfully out of touch, and Jones is crap.

Australia will not blow England away in 3 days and win 5-0 comfortably if the groundsmen make green tracks. Strauss is in fantastic form, Cook's finding his form, Shah or Bopara are stronger than Vaughan was in 2005, Pietersen's class, Collingwood's in fantastic form and in better knick than Bell was in 2005, Prior's a proper batsman far better than Jones and Read put together, Freddie needs to find some form, and then we've got a stronger tail with Broad and Swann handy with the bat.

I expect England's seamers to demand green tracks as well, and if they get them, then Australia better watch out. Freddie'll get the ball talking, Jimmy's going to be swinging and hopefully reverse swinging it with accuracy and consistency, Broad's turning into a very good bowler and Swann's drift and turn could trouble the Australian's.

It helps that Ponting's in poor form as well. I saw some stats regarding Ponting the other day, here are his stats since the 2006/7 Ashes:

Opposition	Mat	Inns	NO	Runs	HS	Ave	SR	100	50
v India		8	14	0	534	140	 38.14 	54.04	2	2
v New Zealand	2	3	0	100	79	 33.33 	63.29	0	1
v South Africa	6	12	0	495	101	 41.25 	66.62	1	4
v Sri Lanka	2	3	1	140	56	 70.00 	55.33	0	2
v West Indies	3	6	0	323	158	 53.83 	65.25	1	1
									
Overall		21	38	1	1592	158	 43.02 	60.37	4	10

and it gets even worse in this current season, here are those stats:

Opposition	Mat	Inns	NO	Runs	HS	Ave	SR	100	50
v India		4	7	0	266	123	 38.00 	50.86	1	1
v New Zealand	2	3	0	100	79	 33.33 	63.29	0	1
v South Africa	6	12	0	495	101	 41.25 	66.62	1	4
									
Overall		12	22	0	861	123	 39.13 	60.46	2	6

If Ponting continues this poor run of form, with Hussey in a poor run himself, uncertainty about the #6 position, and Brad Haddin flattering to deceive away from Australia, it could be a difficult series for them. Katich also struggled in the middle order in 2005, and Hughes is still very new to International cricket, so could get found out. Clarke also struggled in South Africa, and wasn't too strong in England last time, making only 1 score of real note. I wouldn't be too confident if I was Australia. Sure you've just beaten South Africa away, but that was mainly thanks to the bowlers, and if it wasn't for Hughes, Katich and surprisingly Johnson, I don't think Australia would have won that series as the batting just wasn't good enough.

Personally I'd be hoping for flat tracks if I was an Aussie fan as well

 

[Mercules]

Have some nip on the first day, before coming flat days 2 & 3 with spin coming into it days 4+5 and hope we bat 2nd every time :cool:

 

[sifter132]

Australia will not blow England away in 3 days and win 5-0 comfortably if the groundsmen make green tracks.

Nope not saying that. All I'm saying is that Australia is relatively strong in batting and pace bowling and they have NO spinners. Australia also doesn't play spin all that well IMHO. Perhaps England can cash in on that.

But if you want to clash batting lineups head to head on a flat pitch be my guest or if you want to clash pace bowling lineups on green pitches bring it on. We aren't the ones who were skittled for 51 recently. I'm not saying Aussies will massacre England in either of those circumstances, but Australia would certainly fancy their chances.

It helps that Ponting's in poor form as well. I saw some stats regarding Ponting the other day, here are his stats since the 2006/7 Ashes:

Opposition	Mat	Inns	NO	Runs	HS	Ave	SR	100	50
v India		8	14	0	534	140	 38.14 	54.04	2	2
v New Zealand	2	3	0	100	79	 33.33 	63.29	0	1
v South Africa	6	12	0	495	101	 41.25 	66.62	1	4
v Sri Lanka	2	3	1	140	56	 70.00 	55.33	0	2
v West Indies	3	6	0	323	158	 53.83 	65.25	1	1
									
Overall		21	38	1	1592	158	 43.02 	60.37	4	10

and it gets even worse in this current season, here are those stats:

Opposition	Mat	Inns	NO	Runs	HS	Ave	SR	100	50
v India		4	7	0	266	123	 38.00 	50.86	1	1
v New Zealand	2	3	0	100	79	 33.33 	63.29	0	1
v South Africa	6	12	0	495	101	 41.25 	66.62	1	4
									
Overall		12	22	0	861	123	 39.13 	60.46	2	6

If Ponting continues this poor run of form, with Hussey in a poor run himself, uncertainty about the #6 position, and Brad Haddin flattering to deceive away from Australia, it could be a difficult series for them. Katich also struggled in the middle order in 2005, and Hughes is still very new to International cricket, so could get found out. Clarke also struggled in South Africa, and wasn't too strong in England last time, making only 1 score of real note. I wouldn't be too confident if I was Australia. Sure you've just beaten South Africa away, but that was mainly thanks to the bowlers, and if it wasn't for Hughes, Katich and surprisingly Johnson, I don't think Australia would have won that series as the batting just wasn't good enough.

Personally I'd be hoping for flat tracks if I was an Aussie fan as well

Anyone can look at Australia's order individually and you think they could be vulnerable, but I could make a list of England's similar foibles. Ponting out of form? What by averaging 40? England would love a #3 to average 40 consistently instead of the 25 average that Shah and Bell have been maintaining at #3. And imagine if Ponting starts playing well...Haddin having problems scoring away? He's averaging 30 outside Australia in 10 Tests. Sure he's only made 1 50, but at least he's consistently scoring something and thwarting collapses unlike Gilchrist/Symonds who were 0 or 100 type players.

Look here's the thing about Australia's batting. Someone always makes runs. Want figures? Australia has scored under 200 in their first innings ONCE in the last 5 years - Lords 2005, and that was for 190 and Australia bowled England out for 155 in response. On the other hand, England has been out for less than 200 8 times in the last 5 years in their first innings. Australia just has an amazing consistency to their batting that they might be 3/30 or 4/60 but someone comes to the party.

But having said that, I think the series will again be all about the bowling quality. Last time England's bowling was awesome. If they bowl similarly again they probably should win, no matter what type of pitches are prepared.