Australia in England - 2009 Ashes Tour

[Mr.Cricket]

We beat South Africa in Sa , England lost to WI in WI. The way I see it is unless England lift their game big time they are going to get smashed for the umpteith time.

All this talk about how Hughes is going to struggle in England is crap. If he can make runs against the best attack in the world , he can make runs against anyone. Yeah the pitches in England will offer something to the bowlers , yes there will be swing and reverse swing but good players adapt. And Hughes is a bloody good player. End of day its all about watching the ball and hitting it. The pitch or conditions shouldnt make that much of a difference if you are good enough. So I am very confident that he will do well in the Ashes.

It will be more interesting to see how England top order going to handle our bowlers. There is lot of fire in that bowling attack now with MJ and Siddle firing on all cylinders. Add a Stuart Clark and/or Lee in there and poms will their work cut out. Its going to be good fun.

 

[Jetty]

Lee in England
10 Tests 26 wickets at 45.44 econ 4.22 s/r 64.50

 

[lostboy182]

The pitch in Napier shows completely how ordinary great pace bowlers can look when there is nothing for them to bowl on. This is essentially what Anderson, Broad et all have had to deal with the last few months.

Siddle/Johnson/Hilfenhaus have had the greenest wickets in the world, and I think they will be in for a shock on flat featherbeds.

From what I understand, Hugh Morris has already "laid the law down" to the groundsmen, starting with Sophia Gardens for flat turners in the Ashes.

For the ECB, it's a win-win situation: tests will last 5 days guarenteed (what the counties demand), and pace bowling will be negated (Australia's main strength over England).

For this reason expect a tandem of Swann and Panesar in all 5 matches (apart from maybe Headingley).

 

[aussie_ben91]

Lol, you're making out like England's batting line-up is woeful, and you're clearly over-rating your bowling attack.

England does have a woeful batting lineup and Australia does have the best bowling lineup in the world when at full strength. There is no better 4 man bowing attack then Johnson, Lee, Clark & Siddle.

England are rated like number 6 in the world now aren't they? Can you imagine where they'd be without Kevin?

I remember a long time ago, me saying that Owais Shah was as about as good as Marcus North and you laughed at it, saying that North is nowhere near Shah. Look who has a Test 100 to his name and look who doesn't? But now I feel like an idiot because that is the ulimate insult to Marcus North's ability. Best debut hundred I've ever seen.

Australia will not blow England away in 3 days and win 5-0 comfortably if the groundsmen make green tracks. Strauss is in fantastic form, Cook's finding his form, Shah or Bopara are stronger than Vaughan was in 2005, Pietersen's class, Collingwood's in fantastic form and in better knick than Bell was in 2005, Prior's a proper batsman far better than Jones and Read put together, Freddie needs to find some form, and then we've got a stronger tail with Broad and Swann handy with the bat.

I'm sorry but Shah or Bopara are nowhere near Michael Vaughan at the present, Pietersen isn't as determined without the captaincy, Collingwood will get mauled unless their is a flat pitch and Jones was equally as good in 2005 as Prior has ever been.

I expect England's seamers to demand green tracks as well, and if they get them, then Australia better watch out. Freddie'll get the ball talking, Jimmy's going to be swinging and hopefully reverse swinging it with accuracy and consistency, Broad's turning into a very good bowler and Swann's drift and turn could trouble the Australian's.

England's seamers certainly won't do as much damage as Australia's. If I were you I'd be hoping that the England pitches are flat because if they aren't then Pete Siddle is going to give Kevin Pietersen his first pair in Test Cricket.

It helps that Ponting's in poor form as well. I saw some stats regarding Ponting the other day, here are his stats since the 2006/7 Ashes:

Opposition	Mat	Inns	NO	Runs	HS	Ave	SR	100	50
v India		8	14	0	534	140	 38.14 	54.04	2	2
v New Zealand	2	3	0	100	79	 33.33 	63.29	0	1
v South Africa	6	12	0	495	101	 41.25 	66.62	1	4
v Sri Lanka	2	3	1	140	56	 70.00 	55.33	0	2
v West Indies	3	6	0	323	158	 53.83 	65.25	1	1
									
Overall		21	38	1	1592	158	 43.02 	60.37	4	10

and it gets even worse in this current season, here are those stats:

Opposition	Mat	Inns	NO	Runs	HS	Ave	SR	100	50
v India		4	7	0	266	123	 38.00 	50.86	1	1
v New Zealand	2	3	0	100	79	 33.33 	63.29	0	1
v South Africa	6	12	0	495	101	 41.25 	66.62	1	4
									
Overall		12	22	0	861	123	 39.13 	60.46	2	6

If Ponting continues this poor run of form, with Hussey in a poor run himself, uncertainty about the #6 position, and Brad Haddin flattering to deceive away from Australia, it could be a difficult series for them. Katich also struggled in the middle order in 2005, and Hughes is still very new to International cricket, so could get found out. Clarke also struggled in South Africa, and wasn't too strong in England last time, making only 1 score of real note. I wouldn't be too confident if I was Australia. Sure you've just beaten South Africa away, but that was mainly thanks to the bowlers, and if it wasn't for Hughes, Katich and surprisingly Johnson, I don't think Australia would have won that series as the batting just wasn't good enough.

Personally I'd be hoping for flat tracks if I was an Aussie fan as well

Ponting isn't in bad form. He just isn't as hungry anymore because his got nothing left to acchieve but when he wants a score and the team needs it then he is always the one to step up and deliever. I suggest you watch his innings of 83 on a minefield of a pitch when Australia was 3/38.

Even so, you claim that Ponting is struggling because his only averaging 43 but yet only 2 or 3 English players have a first-class average of over 43. I mean batting average, not bowling average, so don't think about uttering the words - Stuart Broad!

 

[King Pietersen]

England does have a woeful batting lineup and Australia does have the best bowling lineup in the world when at full strength. There is no better 4 man bowing attack then Johnson, Lee, Clark & Siddle.

England are rated like number 6 in the world now aren't they? Can you imagine where they'd be without Kevin?

I remember a long time ago, me saying that Owais Shah was as about as good as Marcus North and you laughed at it, saying that North is nowhere near Shah. Look who has a Test 100 to his name and look who doesn't? But now I feel like an idiot because that is the ulimate insult to Marcus North's ability. Best debut hundred I've ever seen.

I'm sorry but Shah or Bopara are nowhere near Michael Vaughan at the present, Pietersen isn't as determined without the captaincy, Collingwood will get mauled unless their is a flat pitch and Jones was equally as good in 2005 as Prior has ever been.

Even so, you claim that Ponting is struggling because his only averaging 43 but yet only 2 or 3 English players have a first-class average of over 43. I mean batting average, not bowling average, so don't think about uttering the words - Stuart Broad

I'll answer all of these points with the England players records over the past 18 months.

Andrew Strauss: 1513 runs at an average of 54.03 with 7 hundreds
Alastair Cook: 1420 runs at an average of 41.76 with 2 hundreds
Kevin Pietersen: 1547 runs at an average of 48.34 with 6 hundreds
Paul Collingwood: 1231 runs at an average of 43.96 with 4 hundreds
Matt Prior: 563 runs at an average of 56.30 with 1 hundred
Andrew Flintoff: 262 runs at an average of 24

So out of them, only 1 of the proper batsmen averages under 43. Strauss and Prior are averaging over 50, Pietersen's been in decent form since the NZ series and Collingwood's been in sublime form since the start of the Indian tour. We've then got a class act like Bopara to come in who's already got a Test hundred, Shah's also a class act, his 80odd on debut in India proved that, he just had a poor series in the Carribbean, he'll come good in England. Then we've got Vaughan and Bell who could also come back in, Vaughan's hit thousands of balls in the nets over the winter, and scored an OD hundred in a pre-season tour, and Bell's going to be class when he's got some confidence.

LOL @ Jones being better than Prior as well. You clearly no nothing about Matt Prior. Jones was a 1 season wonder with the bat, and kept his place thanks to scoring the odd pretty 20/30. Prior's a proper batsman and could possibly make it into the England side as a batsman alone if we had injuries. His average of 50 in the last 18 months, including a series in India proves he's got talent. Much better than Jones.

England's seamers certainly won't do as much damage as Australia's. If I were you I'd be hoping that the England pitches are flat because if they aren't then Pete Siddle is going to give Kevin Pietersen his first pair in Test Cricket.

You say that, but none of Australia's current seamers (Johnson, Siddle, Clark and Hilfenhaus) have played a Test match in England before, so they're going to take time to adjust, and Lee's got a pretty poor record in England. Anderson's in magnificent form, getting some serious swing and reverse which was the curse for Australia in 2005. Broad's going to prove you wrong. Flintoff's going to be bowling fast and getting reverse and causing your batsmen problems, and Swann and Panesar are both miles better than your spinners.

Ponting isn't in bad form. He just isn't as hungry anymore because his got nothing left to acchieve but when he wants a score and the team needs it then he is always the one to step up and deliever. I suggest you watch his innings of 83 on a minefield of a pitch when Australia was 3/38.

I don't believe that's true, but if it is, then it's not the sort of mentality I'd want from my captain. He's been found out by a few bowlers recently, guys like Morkel and Sharma who get abit of movement and bounce have troubled him. He seems to be developing some technical problems as his eye leaves him, and as age takes over. 1 innings doesn't prove he's in form either, Tim Ambrose scored a hundred when England were in trouble, but I wouldn't say he's class. You claim it was a minefield as well, but Australia made 466 in that innings, with a hundred from Marcus North and 96* from Mitchell Johnson. Think you need to reassess the definition of a minefield. I watched the game, and it really wasn't that bad a pitch tbh.

 

[aussie_ben91]

You just lost a Test series to the West Indies (!) and we just beat South Africa in South Africa. Who do you think is better prepared for the Ashes? England cricket is a mess at the moment.

Our batsman & bowlers have been playing in bowler-friendly conditions (which you claim England will be) whilst England has been playing on flat pitches and getting murdered by a mediocre Test team.

Your batsmen's stats are flawed due to the flatness of the pitches in the West Indies. Kevin is the only batsman in your team capable of playing an innings of substance in difficult conditions.

Your bowlers are equally as bad as your batsmen aswell. Seriously Amjad Khan? Stuart Broad? Ravi Bopara? Owais Shah? These guys are an embarrassment. They pale in comparison to the likes of Mitchell Johnson, Peter Siddle, Phillip Hughes and Marcus North.

 

[Skater]

We were murdered by the Windies? Must have missed that. If I remember, the tailenders got them out of serious trouble in avoiding a 2-1 defeat.

 

[King Pietersen]

Shut up Ben. We were not murdered by the West Indies. We weren't bowled out after Jamaica, and if it wasn't for Strauss's defensive captaincy we'd have won 2-1.

Australia are better prepared, but England are not a mess. Those stats are from the last 18 months as well, that's a long time, so 1 series in West Indies will not have a massive impact on the stats. Strauss was superb in India as was Collingwood, Pietersen's class, and Cook's finding his form as well. Prior's averaged 50 in the last 18 months, and has played better than Haddin with the bat.

Amjad Khan's had 1 good season and shouldn't have been picked. Broad gets alot of ridiculous flak from you. You've clearly not seen him bowl in the last 5-6 months. He will prove you wrong, and I'm looking forward to seeing you eating your words regarding him. Shah and Bopara are not bowlers either, and are far from embarrassments. Bopara's one of the most talented young batsmen in the world. You can doubt it, but I've seen alot of him and know how talented he is. He will be a class act. Shah's also immensely experienced, and is more than good enough to be playing Test cricket. If he plays, he'll prove you wrong as well, I'd rather see Rav play though.

I'm purely defending England, I'm not going to make ridiculous statements about the Aussie players, and can see Australia winning the series. You're going to look a complete muppet if we win this series though. All you've done is slag England off, calling our team a shambles, slagging off the bowlers, writing off Shah and Bopara, saying how well Siddle and Johnson will destroy us, it'll certainly come back to bite you on the arse if Australia don't blow us away, and if Broad gets heaps of wickets.

I'm looking forward to the series, and really hope we win, not only to win a series again but just to laugh at you. I don't think we will win, but I will relish it if we do.

 

[aussie_ben91]

The funny thing is, just acouple of hours after these were posts, England were demolished by the West Indies. :laugh

You have ago at me for looking too far into statistics but you are doing the same. Damien Flemming put it best when he said he hated the amount of flatpitches that are being used nowadays to beef up the averages of the batsmen. This is exactly what happened with England because their batting averages (apart from Kevin) overrate how good their batsman are.

I've seen England play over the past 4 years and when the going gets tough, England faulter and Kevin is the only player that stands up and does something. Kevin is twice as good as the next best England batsman and you've got batsman like Ravi Bopara & Owais Shah who quite frankly are the next Michael Atherton and Nassar Hussain. You've got a blonde chick called Stuart Broad who bowls like his got a stick up his bum (look at his bowling action) and a washed up nobeen called Stephen Harmison who is living off glory of taking 7-12 against a depleted West Indies batting lineup about 5 years ago. Hopefully he can get the ball to land on the pitch this time round, aye?

I hope you realise that this is just a bit've Ashes banter and nothing personal. Hopefully you don't take it too seriously but your team does suck, apart from Kevin.

 

[Skater]

I don't think you are in a place to call Stuart Broad a 'blonde chick' when you have Nathan Bracken in your set-up.

 

[surendar]

We were murdered by the Windies? .

Shut up Ben. We were not murdered by the West Indies.

The thing was, England murdered themselves.. i.e, a 100% suicide & self-victims of the short pitched deliveries.

If this is how, England players are going to be so much responsible, I also cannot see the England team winning this year's ashes. The thing which surprises is, same set of chaps who spoke get Bell out, enough of Bell and bring Bopara in, are now saying --> Get Bell in! :

If a team is not aware of a perfect combination to win the other, whatever team is, it will just struggle/gamble to win. :cool:

 

[Skater]

The thing was, England murdered themselves.. i.e, a 100% suicide & self-victims of the short pitched deliveries.

If this is how, England players are going to be so much responsible, I also cannot see the England team winning this year's ashes. The thing which surprises is, same set of chaps who spoke get Bell out, enough of Bell and bring Bopara in, are now saying --> Get Bell in! :

If a team is not aware of a perfect combination to win the other, whatever team is, it will just struggle/gamble to win. :cool:

It was a one day game... a completely pointless and irrelevant exercise. We were talking about the tests.

 

[manee]

It was a one day game... a completely pointless and irrelevant exercise.

I'm not sure what has converted you to the position of a neo-purist, but stop acting like such a view is held by anyone else but you and perhaps a few others.

 

[surendar]

It was a one day game... a completely pointless and irrelevant exercise. We were talking about the tests.

A Team spirit holds good whatever form of the game it is.. as far as I know. Point me the one instance in yesterday's match where the players played with team spirit? Was there a mutual understanding at all in first place? Or I was watching a different channel or may be, because I was watching Aus vs SA in parallel, I found this game vs WI with no team spirit! Thats why I asked there in other thread, does the England team have any internal problems? I am not aware of it though.

In Tests in WI, though English team lost, I had to praise for giving 110% effort to win a test and level the series. It was just by a margin, England team was not able to achieve.

The team which was in such a scenario, yesterday all of a sudden, they played something like beach cricket!

Anyways coming to this Ashes, the main player who lacks form is Flintoff(who was last time one of the Ashes winners). He has to come back.. With Strauss, Flintoff, KP, Sidebottom and Broad definitely English team can put a good fight.

Out of interest, I wanted know what happened to Hoggard? Is he playing?

 

[aussie_ben91]

Hoggard would definately be a better option for the Ashes then Stuart Broad.