Dec 3-7: 2nd Test: Australia v England at the Adelaide Oval

[barmyarmy]

Yeah, I wouldn't have dropped Hilf personally. I don't see any point Australia playing a spinner if they can't tie an end down or take wickets.

 

[Boundaries]

Haven't been on the site for a while, but hey it's the ashes.

What have they done with my England, we're playing so damn awesome although that is matched by the aussies dreadful performances so far.

Does anyone else feel that Cook is very much an away performer. South Africa, Bangladesh and now here down under he has played very well. But during the 09 ashes and the home Pakistan and Bangladesh series he was woeful.

Let's just hope rain doesn't bugger us up.

 

[barmyarmy]

I guess that might be to do with the pitches. There was a lot of swing/seam movement in the home series this summer whereas most the recent away series have been on flatter pitches.

 

[StinkyBoHoon]

personally, I'd bat a little longer, even with the threat of rain.

for one, you don't want to be putting a realistic target up, then faffing about trying to get australia out for a total you can chase in 10-25 overs. a tail end with a lead of even 50 is a lot harder to dislodge than one that's batting 100 behind knowing there is no hope.

put the foot on their neck psychologically, give them a total that makes only an innings loss or a draw possible and they'll fold much easier imo.

 

[War]

BBC Sport - Cricket - Jonathan Agnew column

As i've been saying for the last year on this site & in my own personal thoughts since the end of the 2008 Australian tour to Windies. 4-seamers is the way for Australia's bowling attack.

 

[War]

Don't see the relevance of bringing the great bowlers (Steyn? Lol, but that's for another time),

Now is a good time actually. What funny about calling Steyn a great bowler?.

I made no mention of Broad being great, just I don't think there's enough weight in him being dropped, or enough wait from those who would replace him. I think he's bowled well in both tests and has been bowling well for the last couple of years. Some stats:

year 2007 		1 	1 	36.0 	5 	95 	1 	1/95 	1/95 	95.00 	2.63 	216.0 	0 	0 	
year 2008 		9 	18 	325.2 	67 	1081 	25 	3/44 	5/104 	43.24 	3.32 	78.0 	0 	0 	
year 2009 		14 	22 	421.3 	84 	1333 	47 	6/91 	6/87 	28.36 	3.16 	53.8 	3 	0 	
year 2010 		10 	18 	321.4 	76 	948 	26 	4/38 	6/104 	36.46 	2.94 	74.2 	0 	0

Yeah, his stats for 2010 aren't great (though in the modern era of pitches, I think anything below 35 is decent, given batsman are now expected to average over 40, when it used to be less in the 90s, when the threshold for bowlers was under 30). He had a great year in 2009, including two iconic bowling performances in The Ashes, on stats. There are two sides to cricket, Flintoff never had a great average, but was he good enough to bowl for the side? Of course he was, Broad also creates pressure like Flintoff and is a versatile bowler who can be used in many aspects. If you take in to account his age, he's probably still 5 years away from the peak of his career. The improvements he already has made, his fantastic results in ODIs and the fact he is a long-term investment. Throw in to the mix he averages nearly 30 with the bat for a number 8, including 160 odd earlier this year, and I just don't see any weight in him being dropped outside of the typical pessimism so many hold. Not saying he can't improve or could be doing more in the side, but do you think Shahzad or Tremlett will offer more?

Firstly i agree with most of this. Although you are slightly exaggerating his Ashes 09 bowling performances by saying he had two iconic spells. Only the Oval spell was iconic, his second innings 6 for @ Headingley was certainly not iconic. Most of those wickets came with AUS hitting out for quick runs @ the end.

Secondly although Flintoff's average was always in 30s & never was in the mid 20s like what you expect from great bowlers. That certainly doesn't mean he is comparable to Broad based on those averages in anyway. Flintoff was a top-class bowler in all conditions. During Freddie test bowling peak from Bridgetown 2004 (when he took his 1st test 5 wicket haul) to Oval 09 he averaged 28. I'd argue that thanks to persistend injuries his bowling never even peaked fully either. That Bridgetown 04 - Oval 09 period his 1st gear of being test standard bowler (Ashes 05 - India 06 was the zenith of his bowling during that 5 year period). But injuries prevented him from reaching 2nd gear in which we would have seen him getting more 5 wicket hauls.

Back to Broad & i was never implying that he should be dropped nor do i think Mr.Owzat was either. We where just highlight he clearly is not the finished article & has to work on his bowling outside bowler friendly conditions, since he ATS clearly loses effectiveness when bowling to good batsmen on flat decks. But of course its obvious he is improving all the time as a test bowler ever so slightly & i'm fine with him being in the team.

 

[aussie1st]

That just shows the mess our cricket is in. Can't even give Doherty some cheap wickets.

 

[Sureshot]

Hopefully we don't bat much beyond 600. Hilarious listening to Shane Warne about that LBW that wasn't out. Yes, the umpire has to assume the ball is going straight, but that's relevant to the trajectory of the ball, which the great man seemed to be missing. Technology was doing exactly what the umpire should've done, though I don't blame the umpire for getting it wrong, it's just one of those things.

 

[aussie1st]

Hope the selectors are taking note of what is happening to Siddle, he isn't made for ODIs so shouldn't be picked. Doherty struggled a bit too when they attacked him so England not declaring might cost him his ODI spot.

 

[sifter132]

personally, I'd bat a little longer, even with the threat of rain.

for one, you don't want to be putting a realistic target up, then faffing about trying to get australia out for a total you can chase in 10-25 overs. a tail end with a lead of even 50 is a lot harder to dislodge than one that's batting 100 behind knowing there is no hope.

put the foot on their neck psychologically, give them a total that makes only an innings loss or a draw possible and they'll fold much easier imo.

I think Australia will be well pleased that England wasted half an hour racking up runs they don't need. By the time Australia passes this 375 lead it'll be lunch on day 5 at least, and that's without rain. I think England are wasting an opportunity here. What's the worst case for them? Australia make 500 and give England a torrid 15 overs chasing 125? That's so defensive it's not funny, especially with the threat of rain taking time out of the game. If England win here Australia needs 2 wins to regain the Ashes. Given the Aussie attack, England could win the Ashes right here in other words - but they are really dragging their feet.

Haven't had a good coach witch hunt in a while tbh...

Well it's struck me for a while that Troy Cooley is totally overrated - he's done bugger all for Australia. He's fixed none of Mitch Johnson's problems and they've only been aparrent oh for about 3 years or so. Mitch has SO much potential, but Cooley's kept him stagnant - apart from one magic series. Siddle hasn't really improved despite his potential. I don't think Hilfenhaus or Bollinger have become juggernauts under Cooley's guidance. Ryan Harris is the only pace bowler I think who's really improved, and I believe Troy Cooley had nothing much to do with that. Oh and Shane Watson's improved, maybe that's to do with Cooley.

My cynical mind says that Cooley - Murray's Mints = Useless as ████.

 

[angryangy]

I think perhaps the concept of a single specialist coach for bowling is a bit meaningless. Even if he's brilliant, he can't be expected to manage bowlers when they're away from the side. If he's not so brilliant or isn't good at handling the weird variety of bowlers that selectors dig up, then there can't be much to achieve. In this day and age, we're very big on mentoring and I think this is where it fits quite well. Each bowler should have his own trusted advisor, like Warne with Terry Jenner.

 

[aussie1st]

Swann creating small chances right now, quite the change to what we saw from Doherty.

 

[angryangy]

That rough was always going to suit Swann, but the other patch would made for a tricky leg stump line to the right hander. Did Doherty even bowl over the wicket at all to right handers?

 

[aussie1st]

Here we go Swann starting to make his mark on this game and the series. Good fighting knock by Katich though, did an awesome job to see off the new ball considering his situation. Ponting needs to stand up big time now.

 

[ZoraxDoom]

<3 Swanneh

That ends a pretty awful game for Ponting. 0 and 9. He's got only 75 runs in 4 innings this series if I'm not mistaken, average of 25.