England in Pakistan

[JamesyJames3]

Quote from the online SkySports commentry:

Unlike England batsman and housewives with obsessive compulsive disorder, Pakistan don?t feel the need to sweep every two minutes.

Harmison has been great today, despite his figures, but I don't understand the point of bowling bouncers when the batsmen refused to walk off, just gave the umpires a reason to allow the batsmen to change their minds.


I believe Botham was making excuses as well. The best one was that England team hasn't had much rest since the Ashes which is why they were too tired for this series, or somewhere along those lines.

So I guess two and a half months are not enough?


Boy did they shut me up. Especially Akmal. Anybody notice how he was using his feet more while batting after lunch? He batted much better than I expected him to. He took the perfect approach against the new ball and attacked it.

Two and a half months? Thats utter bollox!

we got there on the 26th October, 5-6 weeks after the end of the ashes. Not to mention our two main bowlers Harmisson and Flintoff went off to play some "joke" cricket in Australia for couple of weeks. Flintoff looks sluggish in this series its clear he is knackered. Udal should never of got in the team. Loudon should clearly of been in instead of him. At least Loudon has some form of variation with a doosra.

The toss in this match is the first of the three that we shouldnt of batted first. In that case we were unlucky to win this one and lose the previous two. The tinges of green on day 1 definately assisted Pakistan, but now its like batting on concrete. However, dont get me wrong. England have been poor. I havent seen as bad cricket played since the tour of Sri Lanka (2003). I just need to add that Indians shouldnt get excited about the rankings system. It means nothing to me. Basically I think its right in the order it is. But the points system is rubbish. England are much closer to the Aussies than it suggests.

Anyone want to quote me and challenge a comment. Go for it, but expect a response.

Back with a bang.

JamesyJames3

 

[Stephen Bailey]

Two and a half months? Thats utter bollox!

we got there on the 26th October, 5-6 weeks after the end of the ashes. Not to mention our two main bowlers Harmisson and Flintoff went off to play some "joke" cricket in Australia for couple of weeks. Flintoff looks sluggish in this series its clear he is knackered. Udal should never of got in the team. Loudon should clearly of been in instead of him. At least Loudon has some form of variation with a doosra.

The toss in this match is the first of the three that we shouldnt of batted first. In that case we were unlucky to win this one and lose the previous two. The tinges of green on day 1 definately assisted Pakistan, but now its like batting on concrete. However, dont get me wrong. England have been poor. I havent seen as bad cricket played since the tour of Sri Lanka (2003). I just need to add that Indians shouldnt get excited about the rankings system. It means nothing to me. Basically I think its right in the order it is. But the points system is rubbish. England are much closer to the Aussies than it suggests.

Anyone want to quote me and challenge a comment. Go for it, but expect a response.

Back with a bang.

JamesyJames3

Members or Planetcricket, a miracle has happened today. This is a post by James that isn't spam!

With the Udal comment, I agree that he isn't good enough but also look at Kaneria. He's a damn good bowler but apart from the 2nd innings of the 1st test, he's not been effective at all.

 

[langerrox]

Note the time, Go jamesy

 

[JamesyJames3]

Members or Planetcricket, a miracle has happened today. This is a post by James that isn't spam!

With the Udal comment, I agree that he isn't good enough, but also look at Kaneria. He's a damn good bowler but apart from the 2nd innings of the 1st test, he's not been effective at all.

Kaneria is proven, he was amazing in Australia last xmas. Do you reckon Udal could be? I know I dont. Get Loudon in. He is young and raw with much better variation. When Udal comes on to bowl I really dont feel he is going to get a wicket. Bowlers of the best ability make you feel that they can get a wicket every ball. I know I feel this with Flintoff, Harmisson and Hoggard imparticular.

So for the India tour I call for the drop of Giles and Udal. I know it wont happen, but in my opinion they should bring Jones and Loudon in. Or if they wanted two spinners, go for Keedy. We can afford to have a spinner who cant bat when Loudon can bat, hoggard can bat to a certain degree and harmisson is more than capable of hitting a few.

 

[nightprowler10]

The tinges of green on day 1 definately assisted Pakistan, but now its like batting on concrete.

Exactly how many wickets did Pakistan take on the first day that you could attribute to "the tinges of green"?

 

[Stephen Bailey]

Kaneria is proven, he was amazing in Australia last xmas. Do you reckon Udal could be? I know I dont. Get Loudon in. He is young and raw with much better variation. When Udal comes on to bowl I really dont feel he is going to get a wicket. Bowlers of the best ability make you feel that they can get a wicket every ball. I know I feel this with Flintoff, Harmisson and Hoggard imparticular.

Again I agree, but I don't think it's been as spinner friendly as many of us thought. Yes, Giles has had problems with his hip on this tour but we've all seen how effective he's been on sub-continental pitches in the past. I'd also say Udal only played because Jones was injured.

 

[ZexyZahid]

i was just wondering, if england lose this, and India beat Sri Lanka, do India then jump over england in the test rankings, or will it come down to Englands tour of India.

If Pakistan wins with 2-0 and India with 1-0, India and England will be level on points. India wins with bigger margin then that they will be above England.

If Pakistan wins with 1-0 and India with 2-0, India and England will be level on points too. India wins with bigger margin then that they will be above England.

Not to go on about the toss (!) but the commentators are saying that with this pitch it was harder to bat first than second. The pitch had quite a lot of green on the first day but has now levelled out.
Mind you I'd still rather not bat last.

Did they have any more excuses?

Expect a much harder time, when you guys tour England in the summer. I wouldnt be surprised if we won that series 4-0.

Funny to hear this since Pakistan beat England in all departments this series. Especially since they are lucky that they didn't go down 2-0 after the second Test when bad light saved them and not to forget Pakistan dominated during the '80's and '90's in England itself.

Here's an idea. Why would Pakistan take the light? Why not stay on and keep batting?

England didn't either in their first innings. And they were really happy to take the bad light in the second Test.

English commentators can't figure out which excuse to use. First it was that the quick bowler's work-load was too big, then it was that they're not used to bowling such long spells....

It's not over yet, but if Pakistan are to win 1-0 or 2-0 it will be interesting to see if the English fans concede they were outplayed, or fall back on any number of excuses that they themselves dismissed when Aussie fans used them (we lost the toss/we lost it, you didn't win it, conditions conspired against us etc.)

Well the English commentators ran out of excuses, I think. And there can't be much excuses made, especially most of the umpires' decisions have been against Pakistan.

we got there on the 26th October, 5-6 weeks after the end of the ashes.

How much more rest do they need then 6 weeks? Isn't that enough?


Anyway I hope Yousuf and Kamal extend the lead to 300 runs. Pakistan need to score that much, so that they don't need to bat on a fifth day wicket. With getting 300 runs they will be safe.

Seeing as there will be only 140 overs left in the two days. (minus the light off course). Pakistan need to bat about 40 overs and then let England play, who were out for 94 overs for first innings. That will mean Pakistan needs to score about 4 runs an over to reach the 300 runs (now the lead is 158 runs). Not that difficult.

Highest target reached in this stadium is 209/5 by England in 1961.

 

[JamesyJames3]

Exactly how many wickets did Pakistan take on the first day that you could attribute to "the tinges of green"?

The amount of wickets is not the point im making. I am saying that the pitch had something for the bowlers that England would of used effectively. The context was that it was a bad toss to win this one.

If Pakistan wins with 2-0 and India with 1-0, India and England will be level on points. India wins with bigger margin then that they will be above England.

If Pakistan wins with 1-0 and India with 2-0, India and England will be level on points too. India wins with bigger margin then that they will be above England.



Did they have any more excuses?



Funny to hear this since Pakistan beat England in all departments this series. Especially since they are lucky that they didn't go down 2-0 after the second Test when bad light saved them and not to forget Pakistan dominated during the '80's and '90's in England itself.



England didn't either in their first innings. And they were really happy to take the bad light in the second Test.



Well the English commentators ran out of excuses, I think. And there can't be much excuses made, especially most of the umpires' decisions have been against Pakistan.



How much more rest do they need then 6 weeks? Isn't that enough?


Anyway I hope Yousuf and Kamal extend the lead to 300 runs. Pakistan need to score that much, so that they don't need to bat on a fifth day wicket. With getting 300 runs they will be safe.

Seeing as there will be only 140 overs left in the two days. (minus the light off course). Pakistan need to bat about 40 overs and then let England play, who were out for 94 overs for first innings. That will mean Pakistan needs to score about 4 runs an over to reach the 300 runs (now the lead is 158 runs). Not that difficult.

Highest target reached in this stadium is 209/5 by England in 1961.

No 5-6 weeks rest is not enough when you have come off the back of a 5 month season including many international fixtures.

 

[Sureshot]

Credit to Pakistan, i think the key to our lack of success is the fact we have had 3 different XIs. Changing a winning team will always damage a team.

Yousuf and Akmal done well today, showing what a good batting pitch it is.

I don't think we bowled badly, just the batsman made the most of a batting dream.

English commentators can't figure out which excuse to use. First it was that the quick bowler's work-load was too big, then it was that they're not used to bowling such long spells....

It's not over yet, but if Pakistan are to win 1-0 or 2-0 it will be interesting to see if the English fans concede they were outplayed, or fall back on any number of excuses that they themselves dismissed when Aussie fans used them (we lost the toss/we lost it, you didn't win it, conditions conspired against us etc.)

edit: Advice to Harmison, when you've taken 1-113 for the innings you don't give a bloke a spray after he evades a bouncer down the leg-side....

Wahey, advicing one of the best bowlers in the game. Well done.

 

[ZexyZahid]

The amount of wickets is not the point im making. I am saying that the pitch had something for the bowlers that England would of used effectively. The context was that it was a bad toss to win this one.

No 5-6 weeks rest is not enough when you have come off the back of a 5 month season including many international fixtures.

First the pitch thing came up, then losing the toss and now this. Anything more? Like most viewers couldn't watch England watch, because the TV rights went to Sky Sports, so they couldn't morally support them? Or how about the cricket players played too much Playstation in their hotel?

And Vaughan and the rest of team are professional cricket players. They know what to do when win a toss.

 

[JamesyJames3]

First the pitch thing came up, then losing the toss and now this crap. Anything more? Like most viewers couldn't watch England watch, because the TV rights went to Sky Sports, so they couldn't morally support them? Or how about the cricket players played too much Playstation in their hotel?

Ok now your being unreasonable. These are not exscuses. These are facts, that are the truth.

This would be an exscuse - You have too many chuckers and cheats in your team.

By the way read a fantastic book yesterday - Cricket and Race. Had a great chapter called 'Pak off the cheats'

 

[Stephen Bailey]

Leave it there you two please.

 

[ZexyZahid]

Ok now your being unreasonable. These are not exscuses. These are facts, that are the truth.

This would be an exscuse - You have too many chuckers and cheats in your team.

By the way read a fantastic book yesterday - Cricket and Race. Had a great chapter called 'Pak off the cheats'

About the pitch: I have watched every day till the 2nd Test. The commentators, including the pitch checker Botham (and he should know it), said it was a good batting surface. I don't see any excuse in that.

Don't understand why you're putting now racism into this. The so called 'chucker' isn't in the team anymore. After one match playing he was called off while he spend five months correcting it. It's not his fault that ICC aren't clear about this.

Can't find any better response then putting racism into this?

 

[nightprowler10]

No 5-6 weeks rest is not enough when you have come off the back of a 5 month season including many international fixtures.

Oh come off it. Many test teams go through this kind of schedule, but you won't hear them making excuses. Look at Pakistan's schedule since the August of 2004 to June of 2005 (courtesy of Cricinfo ):

# 2005 : Pakistan in West Indies, May - Jun 2005
# 2005 : (Others) Sheikh Zayed Cup in Abu Dhabi, May 2005
# 2004-05 : Sri Lanka in Pakistan, Oct - Nov 2004
# 2004-05 : Pakistan in India, Feb - Apr 2005
# 2004-05 : Pakistan in Australia, Dec 2004 - Feb 2005
# 2004-05 : (Tournament) VB Series (Aus-Pak-WI), Jan - Feb 2005
# 2004-05 : (Tournament) Paktel Cup in Pakistan (Pakistan, Sri Lanka, Zimbabwe), Sep - Oct 2004
# 2004-05 : (Tournament) BCCI Platinum Jubilee Match, Nov 2004
# 2004-05 : (Others) Zimbabwe in Pakistan, Sep - Oct 2004
# 2004 : (Tournament) Videocon Cup in Netherlands, Aug 2004 (Aus, Ind, Pak)
# 2004 : (Tournament) NatWest International Match in England, Sep 2004 (Aus,Pak)
# 2004 : (Tournament) ICC Champions Trophy in England, 8th - 25th September 2004
# 2004 : (Tournament) Asia Cup in Sri Lanka, Jul-Aug 2004
# 2004 : (Others) Sri Lanka in Pakistan
# 2004 : (Others) Pakistan in Netherlands, Aug 2004

Is that not a hectic schedule? This is of course not including any domestic competitions, overseas first class matches in which some Pakistani regulars participated, the Super Series, etc.

 

[ZexyZahid]

Leave it there you two please.

Sorry man, but that guy shouldn't put racism into this.