English Football Thread 2012/2013

Who will win the 2012/13 Premier League?

  • Manchester City

    Votes: 9 25.0%
  • Manchester Utd

    Votes: 19 52.8%
  • Arsenal

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Spurs

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Newcastle

    Votes: 1 2.8%
  • Chelsea

    Votes: 6 16.7%
  • Everton

    Votes: 1 2.8%

  • Total voters
    36
Status
Not open for further replies.
A name means nothing, how many people do you call by nicknames.?

Ive lost count how many people I call by there real name.

You have memories and will no doubt have countless more in the theatre of dreams..

True, I suppose. We'll all still call it Old Trafford regardless. :) Let's get rid of the debt, say I, and forget about what the name is, even though I'd rather it didn't happen, the club's finances are far more important than the name of the ground. But if they start playing around with the club's colours and crest...
 
Terry I heard had the second most number of negative assists aka blunders that lead to an opposition goal last season in the Premiership.
 
From Yahoo:

As starts to the season go, Manchester United?s could not be defined as a sprint from the blocks.

Not on the field of play, as yet, but on the floor of the New York Stock Exchange. The club?s flotation is hardly a runaway success. Together with Facebook, they are in danger of sinking into the stock market relegation zone, on the point of ejection from the big time.

Hoping to sell off 10 per cent of their holdings in order to pay off some debt and channel some cash into their other failing businesses, the Glazer family anticipated that United shares would spin off at around $14 a piece. Some fanciful claims were made in order to flog the shares, not least the suggestion that the club has 659 million followers worldwide. 659 million followers? It?s a football club not an ant colony.

The NYSE was not impressed by such accounting. Nor were they by the figures coming out of the club about the cost of Glazer ownership.

Chelsea and Manchester City both went into huge debt in order to finance the purchase of players and coaches, Arsenal went into debt to pay for a new stadium, United were plunged into borrowing simply in order to facilitate the Glazer takeover.

The money chucked away during their ownership is now estimated at ?553 million, comprising ?295 million interest payments, ?128 million debt repayments, ?101 million for various bits of financial re-engineering (fees for takeover, refinancing, interest swap termination, bond issue and IPO) and ?29 million payments to the Glazer family via consultancy fees and dividends.

In the last nine months alone, ?79 million has disappeared from the club accounts: interest ?43 million, bond buybacks ?28 million, IPO professional fees ?5 million and ?3 million consultancy fees, not to mention ?10 million dividends to the Glazer family to repay loans taken out previously.

Sure, if the club had remained a PLC, dividends and tax would have had to be paid. But Andy Green, the financial blogger, reckons if you take away what would have had to be paid out in PLC costs, the club has forked out ?330million more than they would otherwise have done since the Americans parked their mortgage in the forecourt.

Investors don?t like such figures. Nor do they like the admission in the flotation prospectus that ?our indebtedness could adversely affect our financial health and competitive position?. No s**t, Malcolm.

If you want to know how much the Glazers have affected United?s on-field competitiveness check out these figures: since 2005/06 United?s net spend in the transfer market is ?68million. In the same period, Chelsea?s net spend is nearly ?300 million while Manchester City?s is over ?400 million. In 2008, United?s wage bill was ?67 million higher than City?s. Now it is ?21 million lower, a turnaround of ?88 million in just three years.

Even the parasites themselves appreciate that debt needed to be removed from the club as a matter of urgency. But far from using the money accrued from the sale to pay down the borrowings, the Glazers revealed that half of it would be siphoned off elsewhere to prop up their fading property empire.

Ultimately only about 12 per cent of the debt is likely to be addressed by the float. Less major surgery of the problem at the heart of their ownership than a mild local anaesthetic.

Nor were potential buyers particularly thrilled by the Glazer offer involved in these shares. Ten per cent of the ownership was to be floated off but in return the buyer got nothing. No voting rights, no dividend. The only purpose in purchasing a share was the hope it might increase in value and thus there could be profit in its resale.

Well so far ? despite some vigorous panic buying by the banks behind the flotation ? it is not accruing what was hoped. The problem with such a flotation is it puts the Glazers? assumption of what their asset is worth is being put in stark new perspective.

Forbes magazine recently reckoned United the ?most valuable sports franchise? in the world, worth just over ?1.6billion. If the stock price trades at somewhere closer to the ?5 a share that more gloomy experts anticipate rather than the current bank-backed ?14, the total would be put at somewhere closer to ?500million. That is a dangerously low figure.

Sadly, what such a chastening flotation means is this: the Glazers are likely to hang around, dig in further for the long haul. Look at this logically. The family did not buy United because they loved football, were moved by the story of the Busby Babes or wanted to experience the atmosphere when Liverpool come to Old Trafford.

They bought it to make money. Bailing out now, when the club is approaching its lowest assumed value in a decade, would make no sense. They need independent valuation of somewhere north of ?1.5billion to be tempted to part with the club.


Particularly as the torrent of cash generated by Sir Alex Ferguson?s operation shows no sign of abating. Where else in their empire of debt can the family members accrue management fees totting up to ?20million? The money coming from fans? pockets is the life-support system their leveraged-out business requires.

Of course, a Middle Eastern state development fund might be watching what is happening with City and think they too want a part of the Premier League?s promotional possibilities and might be prepared to part with silly money to get hold of the world?s biggest football brand.

But frankly that is the only way the Glazers will depart the scene any time soon.
And until they do go, it is United?s fans who will pick up the tab for the honour of being owned by the world?s biggest sporting asset strippers.

They will be the ones obliged to watch as Chelsea, City, Barcelona and Madrid continue to move away over the horizon.


But hey, who are they to complain? After all, as their manager has pointed out, ?proper fans? will recognise that the Glazers have been good for United.

Which, as observations go, is a bit like an oncologist telling his patient that, if he only stopped moaning and looked at the bigger picture, the rampant cancer currently ravaging his liver has been good for his body
.

Yep, the Glazers aren't harming Utd at all are they? :rolleyes Come on Mr Gill and Sir Alex - if you guys stop backing the Gormless Ones, they'll be gone in no time!
 
Last edited:
Man I dont see the hate with the Glazers. We arent in a great financial position, but I'd rather not spend like City and Chelsea and whoever Ferguson has genuinely wanted, we have got him.

Ferguson doesnt like paying more money for a player than the amount he deserves. If Ferguson wants to pay more for more for a players and is restricted by the Glazers only then will I believe we need to change the ownership.
 
Man I dont see the hate with the Glazers. We arent in a great financial position, but I'd rather not spend like City and Chelsea and whoever Ferguson has genuinely wanted, we have got him.

Ferguson doesnt like paying more money for a player than the amount he deserves. If Ferguson wants to pay more for more for a players and is restricted by the Glazers only then will I believe we need to change the ownership.

Did you read the article fully?
 
who had the most out of interest?

Honestly don't remember that, sorry. Saw that a while back on twitter's WhoScored.com (@WhoScored)

Edit: This's somewhat recent from the same user, involving Terry.

John Terry: Of PL centre-backs outside the bottom 6 teams last season, only Coloccini (22) was dribbled past more times than John Terry (17)

Have to say I'm surprised by this stat. Coloccini imo had a fantastic last season at St. James' Park.
 
Last edited:
Did you read the article fully?

I didnt read it at all. The way I see it there has been no restriction on whoever we genuinely wanted to buy.

We spend nearly 50M last year and if VP goes through roughly the same amount this year. Technicalities aside, if we can still spend this much money I dont see why it has hindered our transfer dealings.
 
I'm not worried about us doing a Rangers - that's not going to happen. What I am concerned about is us being left behind by Chelsea, Man City, PSG and anyone else who gains a Middle Eastern oil baron/Russian.... whatever as their owners. The other thing that concerns me is that being in debt is never a good thing for a business - and although we still appear to be spending, what is it doing to the debt? That's my primary concern.

Bit annoying the fact we don't play until Monday - I never like seeing our rivals get the jump on us, even if it is just for a few days. Still, since it's a Monday match it's probably more likely that RvP will be able to play.
 
I am more worried of us being so far behind by the likes of Madrid and Barcelona in with our level of football.
 
Honestly don't remember that, sorry. Saw that a while back on twitter's WhoScored.com (@WhoScored)

Edit: This's somewhat recent from the same user, involving Terry.

Have to say I'm surprised by this stat. Coloccini imo had a fantastic last season at St. James' Park.

Whoscored.com itself is an oustanding site btw, not just the twitter.

Very good if you want to look up on a player you've never heard of or if you want to know what position certain players played in.

Would've helped the numerous guys who didn't know who Kagawa was:p.

Very helpful for me as an Arsenal fan considering I don't know half the guys we are linked with.

----------

Vermaelen made team captain and Wilshere given #10.

Guess we really need a new CB and Sahin now as Vermaelen will be going to Spurs at the end of the season and Wilshere will be at Chelsea in a couple of seasons.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Users who are viewing this thread

Top