English Football Thread 2012/2013

[m_vaughan]

You're comparing AC Milan to Liverpool? Ok, AC Milan are having problems this season but are a world class side (all be it an ageing one). Liverpool are not world class. You can say I'm bias all you want, but the fact of the matter is Liverpool are carried by two players at the moment - Gerrard and Torres. The rest simply aren't good enough for a title challenging squad.

AC Milan have been performing just in Europe for the past few seasons. Their form in Serie-A has been very ordinary and have been suffering from the same lack of consistency that has haunted Liverpool in England. Also, without Kaka, they too look very ordinary. Pirlo and Seedorf only show up for the big games and the only other consistent performer from them is probably Gattuso. Gilardino has been very average in front of goal (might be sold in this window) and they have two ageing strikers in Inzaghi and Ronaldo.

Also while Liverpool have two great players in Torres and Gerrard, there a few other quality players. Talk about it this way then the other three only have

Man United - Rooney, Ronaldo, Tevez and Vidic (I'm talking about players in the same league as Torres and Gerrard)

Chelsea - Drogba, Essien and JT

Arsenal - Fabregas and Van Persie (I wont include Adebayor just yet)

Kuyt, Agger, Voronin, Finnan and Aurelio are all average at best.

Kuyt according to me has underperformed, and I rate Agger very highly. He was class last season and has been suffering from injury for the most part of this season. (Hyppia has been unable to fill the void)

Voronin and Aurelio have been poor.

Also, Babel has not impressed me much.

Another player who has tremendous talent but hasnt been able to find his feet yet in the Premier League. I think with time, and with a decent run of games, he will be able to show his skill. You cant expect every player to hit top gear straight away. (even C. Ronaldo and Henry took their time)

And like you said, Benayoun and Alonso are both class performers. The latter is one of the best holding midfielders in the world today with an eye for goal. They also have Mascherano, who is again very very good in what he does.

Unlike Arsenal and Man U (the former's midfield and the latter's attacking 4 in particular), they don't seem to know how each other play. That is why Gerrard is so vital. He relies on himself to make things happen.

I think that is exactly the problem they are facing. Its not because they dont have enough quality, but the fact the players still havent managed to understand each other - and I think Benitez needs to take responsibility for this.

Carragher is vastly over-rated and was never picked by England for a reason. He threw a paddy because he is an icon in Liverpool for his un shurking loyalty and a decent Premiership ability to defend. He is however nowhere near world class, not at all. That statement is absolutely ridiculous. You're seriously telling me that he is up there with the likes of Maldini, Nesta, Puyol etc. What a joke.

Right now he is better than the three names you mentioned. Maldini is on the verge of retirement and Nesta's drop in form for the past few seasons has caused AC Milan to struggle in Serie-A. Puyol is probably the most over-rated defender on the planet. Barcelona saved themselves by signing Milito.

 

[Liverpool_YNWA]

True, I said it at the start of the season when people for some reason were saying Liverpool were going to win the league, I was saying that they wont be in with a chance come February.


What!? Your a United fan and we never, ever want City to get into Europe.


Spot on, they are a 2 man team and if neither fires, ie. last night then they struggle massively.

Liverpool fan, you asked why Liverpool coming third was so laughable. Look at this:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/eng_prem/table/default.stm

12 points behind the 3rd placed team, yes like you said you came 3rd last year, but Arsenal have improved.

Alonso hasn't been good for a few years now, he had a good debut season, but has done nothing since.

All the Scousers loved the yanks when they came in, saying they were gonna bring glory back to Liverpool. Now their holding protests when I cant see that they've actually done that much wrong, I mean they've given plenty of money to Benitez and have backed away from selling the club. Look at it this way, at least you haven't got the Glazers.

Andersons been a first team fixture for United where as I think I've only seen Lucas play twice.

Yes we're currently struggling in the Premier League but it's not the end of the world.

Finishing the season in 2nd is practically the same as finishing 4th. The main thing is finishing in those top 4 spots. Obviously being the Champions is the huge thing to gain, but l rate the other 3 spots as the same. You still get the right of playing European Football and that's the only thing that matters.

Liverpool could still have a greater season than Man United, Chelsea and Arsenal, you know. Stranger things have happened. We still have the European Cup and FA Cup to play for and that's plently of silverware to bring in.

We might have stuffed up our Premier League chances but the big one is still on the line: The European Cup.

Xabi is argubaly our most important player. Yes, Gerrard steals the limelight with his sweet goals and notable performances but it's Xabi Alonso who makes our team tick. The sooner the lad returns to match fitness the better. In around a month time he should be starting every single game and be at his best, and then we'll get a far better indication of where he is at.

I'd much rather the Glazers than the Hicks/Gillett combo, and that's saying something.

 

[Leicester Fox]

The Glazers are the biggest twats in football. Oh well 3 strokes and your out M_Vaughan Rio and Vida are world class as a partnership, probably the best but take away Rio from Vidic and he can't organise the defense, see Milan away. Rios been the better player this year out of them too, and we've got probably the best left back in the world Evra who's been our best player apart from Ronny imo.

Dipper YNWA the big one for Liverpool is the prem, they asked pretty much all of the what they wanted at the start of the year and they said the league, it's just like in the past few years their only going for 1 trophy from the new year so they get an advantage on al the other sides. Look at the CL final last year and it tells you everything.

Anyway no minutes applause atOT for Munich and its the right thing, it should be silence. If some City twats want to try and spoil it then they're idiots. One of their own players died on that night too.

 

[Liverpool_YNWA]

The Glazers are the biggest twats in football. Oh well 3 strokes and your out M_Vaughan Rio and Vida are world class as a partnership, probably the best but take away Rio from Vidic and he can't organise the defense, see Milan away. Rios been the better player this year out of them too, and we've got probably the best left back in the world Evra who's been our best player apart from Ronny imo.

Dipper YNWA the big one for Liverpool is the prem, they asked pretty much all of the what they wanted at the start of the year and they said the league, it's just like in the past few years their only going for 1 trophy from the new year so they get an advantage on al the other sides. Look at the CL final last year and it tells you everything.

Anyway no minutes applause atOT for Munich and its the right thing, it should be silence. If some City twats want to try and spoil it then they're idiots. One of their own players died on that night too.

I rate Evra highly but at the moment he isn't the best left back in the world. He is excellent on the attack but on the defensive end he is suspect. The lack of class right wingers in the Premier League is one of the reasons his defending ability goes unoticed. I'd like Gerrard to start up against him when we travel to Old Trafford. Gerrard could expose him alot l feel. At the moment l'd have Lahm, Abidal and Clichy in front of him off the top of my head. But Evra is certaintly a good shout.

Manc, the big one for you is the European Cup. Winning it twice for the size of your club is laughable. Just have a think, Nottingham Forrest have won it the same amount of times. I know Fergie is chomping at the bit to win the European Cup again but sadly for you lads, you'll stay on two for a while yet.

 

[Ponting_14]

Manc, the big one for you is the European Cup. Winning it twice for the size of your club is laughable. Just have a think, Nottingham Forrest have won it the same amount of times. I know Fergie is chomping at the bit to win the European Cup again but sadly for you lads, you'll stay on two for a while yet.

Don't forget though, there's one thing Shankly, Paisley, Benitez, Dalglish, Gerrard, Rush or anyone who's ever had anything to do with Liverpool FC hasn't done and will NEVER do, and that is win the Treble.

 

[Leicester Fox]

Yeh Barca have won it twice as well though.

You've got to be kidding on Clichy though, Lahm ok but Clichy just no. Abidals only played 13 times for Barca this year and thats not good enough to compare with Evra. Evras underrated defensively, he gets caught out but thats because he spends so much time up the pitch instead of lack of defensive talent, he always makes the tackles when we need him to the only area he's really weak in is heading.

I'm not bothered about the European cup, obviously it would be brilliant but I'd take them premiership over it every time. The fact last years finalists both didn't do well in their leagues and still aren't, really doesn't show it off as a great competition.

 

[Liverpool_YNWA]

Don't forget though, there's one thing Shankly, Paisley, Benitez, Dalglish, Gerrard, Rush or anyone who's ever had anything to do with Liverpool FC hasn't done and will NEVER do, and that is win the Treble.

As long as we've got more trophies than you, l'm happy.

The whole 'treble' thing is just plain stupid. Yes, l do congratulate you on winning three trophies but winning them in one season is irrelative and doesn't make it any better.

How many years has Whiskey Nose been the coach of the Mancs? One European Cup isn't good enough in that space of time. Rafa walks into the club first season and wins it without fuss. I love it.

 

[Will_NA]

Going by your first few posts, l'd put my head on the line and confidently say my knowledge of European Football and Football in general terms is alot greater than yours. Try prove me wrong though.

And how do I go about doing that, pray tell?

 

[Liverpool_YNWA]

Yeh Barca have won it twice as well though.

You've got to be kidding on Clichy though, Lahm ok but Clichy just no. Abidals only played 13 times for Barca this year and thats not good enough to compare with Evra. Evras underrated defensively, he gets caught out but thats because he spends so much time up the pitch instead of lack of defensive talent, he always makes the tackles when we need him to the only area he's really weak in is heading.

I'm not bothered about the European cup, obviously it would be brilliant but I'd take them premiership over it every time. The fact last years finalists both didn't do well in their leagues and still aren't, really doesn't show it off as a great competition.

How many times this season has Clichy's runs lead to an Arsenal goal? He is one of the reasons why Wenger's team are in fine form. His cross for Adebayor on the weekend was a prime example. He is extremley quick and he has made that left side his own. One of the most improved players going around.

Not a great competition? It's more prestigious and sort after than the Premier League. Just remember this...

Champions of England

or

Champions of Europe?

Not hard to work out which is better. Even a Manc should understand.

 

[Ponting_14]

As long as we've got more trophies than you, l'm happy.

Of course, but too bad you didn't get to see much of that though. What? One trophy out of the 18/5? Better then nothing I guess.

The whole 'treble' thing is just plain stupid. Yes, l do congratulate you on winning three trophies but winning them in one season is irrelative and doesn't make it any better.

Only someone who's club has never won the treble would say that.

How many years has Whiskey Nose been the coach of the Mancs? One European Cup in that space of time. Rafa walks into the club first season and wins it without fuss. I love it.

So I guess you think Bill Shankly's 0 European Cups "isn't good enough"?

 

[Will_NA]

I was probably unfair to Agger to be honest. He hasn't been fit so of course he won't find fluency.

I find it incredibly insulting that someone from Australia thinks they know more about football than me.

You have to pay for top class.

Not if you have a good enough eye to get them when they're young. :cool:

 

[JamesyJames3]

AC Milan have been performing just in Europe for the past few seasons. Their form in Serie-A has been very ordinary and have been suffering from the same lack of consistency that has haunted Liverpool in England. Also, without Kaka, they too look very ordinary. Pirlo and Seedorf only show up for the big games and the only other consistent performer from them is probably Gattuso. Gilardino has been very average in front of goal (might be sold in this window) and they have two ageing strikers in Inzaghi and Ronaldo.

Also while Liverpool have two great players in Torres and Gerrard, there a few other quality players. Talk about it this way then the other three only have

Man United - Rooney, Ronaldo, Tevez and Vidic (I'm talking about players in the same league as Torres and Gerrard)

Chelsea - Drogba, Essien and JT

Arsenal - Fabregas and Van Persie (I wont include Adebayor just yet)

.

The players you say are "supposebly" on the same level as the like of Ronaldo, Rooney, Drogba, Fabregas, John Terry are not as important.

The point I'm making is Liverpool's squad is no where near good enough for a title challenge.

You list four players from United who are the stand-outs, but there's so many more that can go in that list - Scholes, Giggs, Anderson, Ferdinand, Evra, Carrick. I can go on and on. Liverpool don't have those types of players after Gerrard and Torres.

You say Gerrard and Torres are on the same level as the like of Rooney and Ronaldo. Well, again, you can say I'm bias, but that's bull.

 

[Will_NA]

Also while Liverpool have two great players in Torres and Gerrard, there a few other quality players. Talk about it this way then the other three only have

Man United - Rooney, Ronaldo, Tevez and Vidic (I'm talking about players in the same league as Torres and Gerrard)

Chelsea - Drogba, Essien and JT

Arsenal - Fabregas and Van Persie (I wont include Adebayor just yet)

Toure doesn't deserve a shout?

Anyway, it's not about individual players, it's about how they play as a team.

We might have stuffed up our Premier League chances but the big one is still on the line: The European Cup.

It's not the big one. The PL is. That shows just how much of a cup team you are. And calling Xabi more important than Gerrard is inexcusable.

As long as we've got more trophies than you, l'm happy.

The whole 'treble' thing is just plain stupid. Yes, l do congratulate you on winning three trophies but winning them in one season is irrelative and doesn't make it any better.

How many years has Whiskey Nose been the coach of the Mancs? One European Cup isn't good enough in that space of time. Rafa walks into the club first season and wins it without fuss. I love it.

And how many times has he won the Trophy that you Liverpudlians so crave? You said to Joe that winning 3 trophies in one season is irrelevant but how does bragging about past trophies won in the 80's (bar the CL in 2005) bear any relation whatsoever?

You've got to be kidding on Clichy though, Lahm ok but Clichy just no.

The gap in class between Evra and Clichy is not as big as you think.

 

[Bilal91]

WHAT...you think clichy isn't good...he's a dynamite...thats why we haven't missed Ashley Cole since he's gone...his pace is blistering even faster than evra i would say...when he runs down the wings...

 

[King Pietersen]

I'm with LF, Evra is the best Left-Back in the world atm. Clichy's decent but is still very inexperienced, Abidal hasnt played enough and Lahm is decent, but i dont think he has anything on Evra.

Liverpool won't have the team to win the Premier League until they get rid of Benitez. He's taking them nowhere, he insists on playing a flawed squad rotation system which means that quality players are rested so that the likes of Sissoko, Crouch, Voronin and Kuyt can play. Benitez buys quantity instead of quality, the players he bought in the summer were all medicore bar Torres and are just being used as squad fillers. If Liverpool continue in the way that they're going, they wont even be a top 4 side in 3 years and will go the same way as Newcastle. Also, the premierleague should be far more important to any club than the champions league. I'm pretty sure that there's more money in winning the PL aswell.