India in England/Ireland/Scotland

[.Mob]

I think OT's ground is bigger than the ones at Bristol and Edgbaston.

 

[SaiSrini]

Its really suprising and sad to see that team which has the world record of highest number of chasing wins is struggling to win these days by chasing. But ya.. Unless bowling improves, there could be nothing done about it

Those wins were on flat batting tracks in the subcontinent. Dont get fooled by them.

I think OT's ground is bigger than the ones at Bristol and Edgbaston.

Whatever it is, India need to show more commitment on the field. They cant change their fielding overnight. But showing more commitment could work in reducing the damage that their fielding causes.

 

[Animator!]

You cannot work on the basis that you can be a bad fielder if you either take wickets or score runs. Thats totally the wrong presidence to set. For example, look at Ian Bell in the last game, he scored runs, then took two very good catches and otherwise fielded like a dream, therefore, he's scored us runs, taken too catches that could have cost say 80 runs together had he not taken them, and probably saved about another 15 runs from his general fielding.

Thats what you need. Otherwise you will fall behind the rest in international cricket. Look at all the very best sides. Australia and South Africa, Australia were the trendsetters for fielding too be brilliant, it's not exactly done them any harm has it, Saouth Africa also came from a situation where it's fielding was poor, but they got a very good coach in and they worked hard, just as India need to do with their fielding now.

 

[.Mob]

Animator has it spot on, there.

Misra - just gambling that Ganguly will add on those 20 runs that he conceded is utter stupidity.

 

[sohum]

Animator has it spot on, there.

Misra - just gambling that Ganguly will add on those 20 runs that he conceded is utter stupidity.

Utter stupidity is dropping someone purely for their fielding when they can more than contribute in another form of the game. For example, if Sachin was a substandard fielder, would you drop him? Or would you keep him and call yourself utterly stupid?

You cannot just apply the prepackaged solutions of "fielding must be up to standard" or "you need to be a world class fielding side from the grassroots" when it's quite clear that you still have the present to deal with. Sure, I don't disagree that we need to work on our fielding on the domestic level. But that does not mean that we completely sabotage our current team just because they cannot hold their own on the field.

For example, look at Ian Bell in the last game, he scored runs, then took two very good catches and otherwise fielded like a dream, therefore, he's scored us runs, taken too catches that could have cost say 80 runs together had he not taken them, and probably saved about another 15 runs from his general fielding.

What exactly is your point here? Ian Bell did everything right and anyone would have had him in their side. Again, I'm not arguing that players should be substandard fielders and get away with it, but that we have to work with what we've got. The players that we are keeping around for the sake of "experience" will be liabilities in the field, but that is the price we're going to have to pay.

Thats what you need. Otherwise you will fall behind the rest in international cricket. Look at all the very best sides. Australia and South Africa, Australia were the trendsetters for fielding too be brilliant, it's not exactly done them any harm has it, Saouth Africa also came from a situation where it's fielding was poor, but they got a very good coach in and they worked hard, just as India need to do with their fielding now.

Yet success in cricket doesn't purely depend on fielding, does it? Associates such as Scotland and Ireland have really good fielding but it is still their batting and bowling that wins or loses them matches. India is selecting the Ganguly's and Dravid's and Munaf's and Powar's because they can still win us matches. I would much prefer they play than pick some substandard bowler or batsman who fields better, but that may be why I prefer test cricket.

 

[Vcassano]

This would be my England line-up then:

1) Alistair Cook
2) Matt Prior
3) Ian Bell
4) Kevin Pietersen
5) Paul Collingwood/Owais Shah - Due to Collingwood's Illness.
6) Andrew Flintoff
7) Ravi Bopara
8) Dimitri Mascarenhas
9) Stuart Broad
10) Monty Panesar
11) Jimmy Anderson

Now that looks like a solid and well balanced line up compared to india's, plenty of all-rounders and 3-4 are on top of their game.

Pretty good line up, though I'd possibly get rid of Masceranhas for Plunkett as they are both about the same quality as batsmen but Plunkett is actually a threatening bowler. Obviously I am still yet to be convinced by Prior and Cook but there you go. You can see their inexperience opening in one day matches - they are getting off to a flier which is great but when one wicket falls they either go into their shell or keep on going at the ball. What would be required is a medium between the two so wickets don't continue to fall but runs are still scored at a good rate.

 

[karnog]

So what should they do? Drop Munaf Patel, Sourav Ganguly, Ramesh Powar and the lot? I think our results would be far worse. We may give away 15-20 runs in a match with our fielding, but I think Sourav Ganguly can be expected to add those 15-20 runs back and Munaf and Powar can be expected to dismiss batsmen that would score those 15-20 runs. The point of having a fielding coach is to make minor improvements to those players who have been selected on basis of their specialist skill and whose fielding needs help. Which means if it so happens that a Don Bradman comes through the ranks but has absolutely pathetic fielding (to put forth an edge-case scenario) the fielding coach is there to help him out.

I agree that dropping players NOW just for their fielding is not a wise choice. But the game is changing and i think india need to start searching the barrell for the next 2 or 3 series. Sharma and uthappa should be given a chance. I think one of the big three (sachin, ganguly and dravid) should retire from odis. This is not because of their form or their poor fielding but it will be much easier for india to grow in the future. It is hard to inject new players into the team and also india won't suffer from the three retiring all at once. Also, india can improve their fielding and drastically. They won't be as good as england (though at certain times they can outshine england) but they can become decent.

 

[Leggie]

Pretty good line up, though I'd possibly get rid of Masceranhas for Plunkett as they are both about the same quality as batsmen but Plunkett is actually a threatening bowler. Obviously I am still yet to be convinced by Prior and Cook but there you go. You can see their inexperience opening in one day matches - they are getting off to a flier which is great but when one wicket falls they either go into their shell or keep on going at the ball. What would be required is a medium between the two so wickets don't continue to fall but runs are still scored at a good rate.

England would drop Masceranhas?!

No way, he showed what he could dp with the bat at Bristol and is a more than bowler....

 

[CricketFan999]

The thing about Mascarenhas is that he can pile the pressure onto a batting side as he gives nothing away. He currently has an econ rate of 3.7. The effect of this is often seen in county cricket where he'll have really tight spells which wind people up so much they try and attack him and gift him wickets. Obviously in international sides they batsman will show more restraint (hence the incredibly high strike rate) but he is still putting pressure on and forcing the batsman to either watch the RR slow or have to attack somewhere.

 

[Sureshot]

Great, according to CricInfo the weather is wet again up in Manchester, I'm starting to wonder if there is any point having any internationals at Old Trafford, seems more apt as a location for ducks and frogs.

 

[jkartik]

Great, according to CricInfo the weather is wet again up in Manchester, I'm starting to wonder if there is any point having any internationals at Old Trafford, seems more apt as a location for ducks and frogs.

hehehe.....out of curiosity....when was the last time there was a FULL50 over match at the old trafford ??

oh and btw, cricinfo states that there are NO floodlights at the trafford ??

 

[Animator!]

I never said anything about dropping players because of their fielding ability, because clearly if you did that you'd have a national pool of about 4 players. but they have to improve, they have to work harder at their fielding, all the other nations have done it, India need to catch up.

 

[Sureshot]

hehehe.....out of curiosity....when was the last time there was a FULL50 over match at the old trafford ??

oh and btw, cricinfo states that there are NO floodlights at the trafford ??

There are. Unless they've brought a million torches.

The last ODI there wasn't interrupted.

http://content-www.cricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/225253.html

Apart from Kabir Ali's bowling of course...

 

[Leggie]

is it raining there currently or is it just a wet outfield?

 

[Animator!]

Team Changes;
India - Agarkar in for Munaf Patel, to balance the side better.
England - Flintoff back in for Tremlett, Mascherenhas left out despite being fit.