India in England/Ireland/Scotland
- Thread starter andrew_nixon
- Start date
I think India really need to look for sacrifising batting ability for fielding ability since India are leaking around 40 runs per 50 overs and these 40 runs build pressure which could reduce an oppositions final score even more. Players like Suresh Raina and Mohammad Kaif need to be given another go considering players like Ganguly and Dravid are not scoring enough runs to account for what they leak in the field, neither is Dinesh Karthik, who people assure me will come good in the field. Small note: I rate Karthik very highly in test matches.
Someone like Tendulkar is still scoring very heavily, despite what all the critics say:
Not only this, but he fields well and bowls handy spin and medium pace, given the occasion, and so he should not be axed, even if a radical policy of youth comes to fruition.
Ramesh Powar is a fine off spin bowler but again, he costs far too many runs in the field without making up for them with the bat or extraordinary bowling, he seems to just bowl his ten, get a wicket and go for forty runs. Although he goes about it by beating the bat often, the performance does not make up for the fieling. Unless he can contribute with the bat more, he may have to be dropped. I am a firm believer that if someone can contribute in two of the three arts, they will be fine, but you have to be pretty amazing to stay in the team but just contributing to one.
Gautham Gambhir is another who I do not rate greatly. He does not score quickly nor has he got a fantastic domestic List A record. His fielding is average and his bowling is not good enough for international level, a good FC average does not equal a good List A average or a good one day player, selectors should work that out sooner rather than later as they have with VVS Laxman. Gambhir's fielding is not spectacular either.
If you look at England, each one of the players, except Monty, are multi dimensional and it is the reason why they can put on 90 odd for the eighth wicket. That being said, even Monty would be in the top half of fielders if he played for India.
I could give a list of multi-dimensional cricketers who should at least be given a(nother) go at one day international level. With seven ODIs against Australia and little to know chance of winning the series, they should try these guys out:
-Suresh Raina (middle order batsman, top fielder and ok bowler)
-Mohd Kaif (middle order batsman, good fielder too)
-Robin Uthappa (opening batsman, good fielder)
-Virendar Sehwag (opening batsman, more than handy off break bowler)
-Manoj Tiwary (bowls leg spin as well as middle order batsman)
-Irfan Khan Pathan (bats and bowls)
-Yusef Pathan (bats and bowls)
-Praveen Kumar (bats and bowls)
That being said, India should not go the Fletcher route and omit good bowlers for average all rounders(Giles & Monty fiasco), but no doubt that these guys should get a look in to see if their stronger art, backed up by the secondary one, can create a good rounded cricketer.
I am no longer upset about India possibly losing this series as it can catalyse some long overdue change in the Indian team but as noted earlier, I hope Tendulkar is not among the ODI axings.
It is strange how pace seems to correlate almost directly with how well a pace bowler is bowling in this series.
Someone like Tendulkar is still scoring very heavily, despite what all the critics say:
Code:
Mat I NO Runs HS1 HS2 HS3 Ave 100 50 0
2000 (26y 252d) 34 34 0 1328 146 122 101 39.05 3 6 0
2001 (27y 252d) 17 16 3 904 146 139 122* 69.53 4 3 1
2002 (28y 252d) 20 19 5 741 113 105* 87* 52.92 2 3 0
2003 (29y 252d) 21 21 1 1141 152 102 100 57.05 3 8 1
2004 (30y 252d) 21 21 1 812 141 86 82* 40.60 1 5 1
2005 (31y 252d) 16 16 1 412 123 93 67* 27.46 1 2 0
2006 (32y 252d) 16 16 2 628 141* 100 95 44.85 2 3 1
2007 (33y 252d) 18 17 2 693 100* 99 99 46.20 1 7 2Ramesh Powar is a fine off spin bowler but again, he costs far too many runs in the field without making up for them with the bat or extraordinary bowling, he seems to just bowl his ten, get a wicket and go for forty runs. Although he goes about it by beating the bat often, the performance does not make up for the fieling. Unless he can contribute with the bat more, he may have to be dropped. I am a firm believer that if someone can contribute in two of the three arts, they will be fine, but you have to be pretty amazing to stay in the team but just contributing to one.
Gautham Gambhir is another who I do not rate greatly. He does not score quickly nor has he got a fantastic domestic List A record. His fielding is average and his bowling is not good enough for international level, a good FC average does not equal a good List A average or a good one day player, selectors should work that out sooner rather than later as they have with VVS Laxman. Gambhir's fielding is not spectacular either.
If you look at England, each one of the players, except Monty, are multi dimensional and it is the reason why they can put on 90 odd for the eighth wicket. That being said, even Monty would be in the top half of fielders if he played for India.
I could give a list of multi-dimensional cricketers who should at least be given a(nother) go at one day international level. With seven ODIs against Australia and little to know chance of winning the series, they should try these guys out:
-Suresh Raina (middle order batsman, top fielder and ok bowler)
-Mohd Kaif (middle order batsman, good fielder too)
-Robin Uthappa (opening batsman, good fielder)
-Virendar Sehwag (opening batsman, more than handy off break bowler)
-Manoj Tiwary (bowls leg spin as well as middle order batsman)
-Irfan Khan Pathan (bats and bowls)
-Yusef Pathan (bats and bowls)
-Praveen Kumar (bats and bowls)
That being said, India should not go the Fletcher route and omit good bowlers for average all rounders(Giles & Monty fiasco), but no doubt that these guys should get a look in to see if their stronger art, backed up by the secondary one, can create a good rounded cricketer.
I am no longer upset about India possibly losing this series as it can catalyse some long overdue change in the Indian team but as noted earlier, I hope Tendulkar is not among the ODI axings.
It is strange how pace seems to correlate almost directly with how well a pace bowler is bowling in this series.
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I agree with you manee. But i still think tendi should let odis go but then again perhaps ur suggesting dravid should be dropped (along with ganguly)? My only argument is that changing the captain now could be quite dangerous for the team as the continous shift of powers can hurt the team (i still think yuvi isn't ready yet). Another player who should have a go is sharma. He's a young all-rounder which could give india flexibility. Not sure about sehwag just yet. Let him prove himself in the domestic league before placing him in the national team. I think kaarthick's future is more in the no.6-no.8 in odis. He is a bopara in the indian team.
As for england well i think they're in a spot of trouble: should they expose broad higher in the order so early or leave him at 9. Lol, imagine flintoff dropping to 9. Maybe 10 if monty has a cameo. Imagine if hes 11, ando hitting boundaries and scoring a good 15 or so (ok unlikely there). You know what i think zaheer khan should be elevated in the order. He has done decently in the past 2 games.
As for england well i think they're in a spot of trouble: should they expose broad higher in the order so early or leave him at 9. Lol, imagine flintoff dropping to 9. Maybe 10 if monty has a cameo. Imagine if hes 11, ando hitting boundaries and scoring a good 15 or so (ok unlikely there). You know what i think zaheer khan should be elevated in the order. He has done decently in the past 2 games.
Not dropped, but should be starting to be phased out of the team, it will be harder to phase out Dravid because he is captain and stil a damn good batsman and so is Ganguly. It will be hard, but will be worthwhile in the long term.
Well yes i believe india should look into the long term. England did that a few years ago. I believe pieterson took the spot of graham thorpe in the 2005 ashes who was widely respected in england for his batting (scored 6700 runs or so in tests). Now i'm not saying thorpe is almost as good as the indian trio but in comparison he was the senior man and was in fairly good form. It worked out for england so it could happen to india. Meh, merely speculating. Mind you the trio could be still playing even when i have grand kids.
legspinner@fred
Club Cricketer
Graham Thrope was an England legend..
But he was dropped as Thorpe announced that he would be retiring to coach in Australia at the end of the season, so England went for the future.
I still, to this day, believe that Thorpe should of played instead of Bell, no matter how many runs he scored against Bangladesh.
It was a differant situation in Thorpes case.
But he was dropped as Thorpe announced that he would be retiring to coach in Australia at the end of the season, so England went for the future.
I still, to this day, believe that Thorpe should of played instead of Bell, no matter how many runs he scored against Bangladesh.
It was a differant situation in Thorpes case.
Manee I agree a lot with your analysis except for Dravid. He's now our second best batsmen in ODIs. He adds a lot to the batting. You'll be crazy to drop him. I'm sure he'd be able to get into any ODI team at the moment, whatever anyone says.
*Go's red*
England 0 5 Sri Lanka
Pakistan 3 2 England
India 5 1 England
England 1 2 West Indies
Was Vaughan captain in these defeats....grrr, that's not why mate, sometimes the team can't play well, and sometimes the other team play really well, we can't blame Vaughan, he only captained ODI's for the first time since 2005 this year!
Right, back to how good Englands tail was.
To correct you...
We drew 2-2 with Pakistan as the first ODi at Cardiff was rained off after a handful of overs during the 2nd innings.
----
Excellent comeback by England, Broad and Bopara showed great composure, only looking silly when they needed 5-6 runs (
Typically). Broad had an excellent all round game and Anderson continued his good form. I though Monty bowled well, with a great ball to dismiss Dhoni, given how our innings went that wicket of Dhoni was huge, who knows what would've happened had we needed 240-250.England ratings:
Cook, 4 - Was outdone by some clever bowling from Zaheer Khan, we needed a good start though.
Prior, 5 - Higher than Cook due to his good keeping, a poor shot, looked cramped for room. I think if we win on Sunday, the last 2 'dead rubbers' would be very important for him as he can play with a bit more freedom and less pressure.
Bell, 6 - Got his runs quickly, which helped Ravi and Broad not need to rush as much, fielded well, poor leave though.
KP, 5.5 - Seems really out of form with the bat, the break after the SL ODIs can do him good, good wicket of Tendulkar, even if it was a half tracker.
Colly, 7 - Captained well, bowled well and batted well during some hard times.
Flintoff, 6.5 - His bowling was excellent and could've had more than 1 wicket, his batting was awkward though, get him in at 7 or 8.
Shah, 5 - Didn't do much in the game at all, undone by a good ball from Powar.
Bopara, 9 - May only have scored 43 runs, but showed great composure when England needed him, 3-1 or 2-2, he made that big an impact with that knock. Fielded well too.
Broad, 9.5 (tempted to say 10
) - Bowled really well and deserved the reward that he was lacking in the first 3 ODIs, batted really well too. MOTM deservedly, excellent stuff.Anderson, 8.5 - Bowled really well, continues his incredible form.
Panesar, 6.5 - I remember a bad error in the field, bowled well, got the big wicket of Dhoni, could've had more.
In fairness to the umpires, it's hard to give LBWs to spinners at Old Trafford, especially given the ball before was a googly that turned so much it was given a wide. Yes, Broad was lucky to survive, but not an easy choice for the umpire.
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m_vaughan
Chairman of Selectors
I think he was talking about the series in Pakistan which England lost 2-3.
It is a tough one, the problem is that he could play for ever and that is not the best way to go about getting new middle order batsman. I do agree he will get into a World One Day XI now.
Vcassano
Club Cricketer
- Joined
- Feb 26, 2006
- Online Cricket Games Owned
I'd dare say in ODI's Monty is less than one-dimensional. Seriously though his kind of spin bowling isn;t suited to a frontline spinner in one days games. You need lots of variations - you almost need to be a 'mystery spinner - which Monty certainly is not. Look at Chawla - his variations got Pietersen out twice, Hogg's variation in the World Cup got him many wickets too.
legspinner@fred
Club Cricketer
I was.
I chose not to count draws at home as losses, so I only counted the 3-2 loss in Pakistan.
Will_NA
Chairman of Selectors
- Joined
- Nov 20, 2006
- Online Cricket Games Owned
He has got variations. He usually bowls 58 mph but he occasionally slips in the 59 mph delivery.
Leggie
Chairman of Selectors
- Joined
- Aug 1, 2007
- Online Cricket Games Owned
He has got variations. He usually bowls 58 mph but he occasionally slips in the 59 mph delivery.
well i did read somewhere that monty has been working on a left handers version of a doosra...
legspinner@fred
Club Cricketer
I think spinners over complicate things sometimes.
I'm a leg spinner, and I normally get wickets with a suprise off spinner, more than I get one with a googly.
So I reckon Panesar should work on bowling a chinaman.
Wainwright, the Yorkshire left armer, bowls chinaman and slow left arm, keeps the batsman guessing.
I'm a leg spinner, and I normally get wickets with a suprise off spinner, more than I get one with a googly.
So I reckon Panesar should work on bowling a chinaman.
Wainwright, the Yorkshire left armer, bowls chinaman and slow left arm, keeps the batsman guessing.
