India in England Jun-Sept 2014

[grkrama]

India Cricket News: Keeping Test specialists out of IPL a good idea - Fleming | ESPN Cricinfo

 

[grkrama]

The problem imo is not Dhoni's conservative captaincy. It is his failure to adapt and evolve to the Test format. He has taken forever to realize that his ODI tactics and team selection will not work in Tests (4 overseas series losses to be precise).

from 2011 and he did do it for a year at max, after zak was not available and the team was dwindling, then misplaced hope in jadeja aetc, the time when kristen left, i mean a captain can get tactics wrong for a match or, but if he is doing repeatedly, the coach is to blame as much as the captain, dhoni is certainly not a law unto himself.put an aggressive coach someone who knows his stuff properly there, im sure this guy will listen.

If the world cup wasn't the next series, I would have preferred a new captain starting from the WI tour to India

then may be it would make sense, but with aus tour and WC back to back, changing captaincy is asking for disaster.

Im not saying MSD for life/or till he retires, but removing him now would be the worst knee jerk reaction.

 

[PokerAce]

Aghh .. I am getting s*cked into the Dhoni issue again

The problem imo is not Dhoni's conservative captaincy. It is his failure to adapt and evolve to the Test format. He has taken forever to realize that his ODI tactics and team selection will not work in Tests (4 overseas series losses to be precise).

The batsmen are to blame, yes. But please check out the number of times we actually had the opposition 4-5 wickets down for less than 100-150 runs. And then they went on to score in the 400-600 range. On wickets where 250-270 could have been competitive totals, we conceded twice those runs because there were no backup bowlers to keep things tight when the wicket takers wanted a breather.

The other issue is. Dhoni is captaining all 3 teams. So there is no room to actually groom a player as a captain. The only option would be to push the new guy over the deep end. I understand the concerns of the new captain being whitewashed and crushed, and I think that's a very good point. And we should persist with Dhoni until then simply because the world cup will be around the corner.

If the world cup wasn't the next series, I would have preferred a new captain starting from the WI tour to India

Ah this discussion doesn't go away does it

I still lets say everything is MSD's fault (its not but lets say it is), even if Dhoni has not won overseas, he has was won us more matches than ever at home, and all ICC events. I think we can give him more time to get right the one missing piece (away wins) from his stellar collection.

 

[greymatter776]

The Indian bowling strategy for the warm up match is pretty simple,Use every bowler for moderate number of overs and take them off the attack after they picks up a wicket.Kumar,Mohit,Shami,Yadav,Ashwin,Kulkarni has all done their job.Jadeja and K.Sharma bowling,Hope Binny gets the ball too.[DOUBLEPOST=1408721617][/DOUBLEPOST]

India Cricket News: Keeping Test specialists out of IPL a good idea - Fleming | ESPN Cricinfo

Agrees for players like Vijay and Pujara.

 

[PokerAce]

Its rare that 7 wickets go to seven different bowlers, as has happened against Middlesex. Also if middlesex are struggling there, suggest the pitch was rather a lively one. So 230 not bad.

 

[greymatter776]

And Karn Sharma chips in with a wicket as well.Now I think this guy could be selected instead of Jadeja,he got the rare art and could bat almost like Jadeja maybe only better.

 

[abhi_jacko]

India Cricket News: Keeping Test specialists out of IPL a good idea - Fleming | ESPN Cricinfo

Hmmm. Interesting

This would only be a good idea if the BCCI takes initiative and provides a comparable monetary incentive as the IPL. Otherwise, this would backfire spectacularly. We would actually find players with good natural technique forcing themselves into becoming T20 players.

we already had a proven performer like Pujara trying to improve his spin bowling to be selected in ODIs. For all we know, that might be one of the reasons why he failed in England. He should have been given a spot in the ODI team. But no, we prefer IPL stalwarts like Rohit/Dhawan/Jadeja/Raina

 

[abhi_jacko]

from 2011 and he did do it for a year at max, after zak was not available and the team was dwindling, then misplaced hope in jadeja aetc, the time when kristen left, i mean a captain can get tactics wrong for a match or, but if he is doing repeatedly, the coach is to blame as much as the captain, dhoni is certainly not a law unto himself.put an aggressive coach someone who knows his stuff properly there, im sure this guy will listen.

I blame Fletcher as much as Dhoni. But you have to see the similarities between his approach to Test and ODI captaincy. His field placements, bowling changes on those overseas tours. I am sure both Fletcher and Dhoni decided on those tactics together

 

[abhi_jacko]

Ah this discussion doesn't go away does it

I still lets say everything is MSD's fault (its not but lets say it is), even if Dhoni has not won overseas, he has was won us more matches than ever at home, and all ICC events. I think we can give him more time to get right the one missing piece (away wins) from his stellar collection.

LOL I dont think anyone is saying it is all Dhoni's fault.

And of course we will give him as much time as he needs. We are known for giving some players ample opportunities (the two Sharmas and Jadeja are the prime beneficiaries)

 

[greymatter776]

Karn finishes with three wickets and Samson makes 4 catches.I know warmup matches doesn't matters much but still,with Jadeja not being the best and plus he is wicketless in this warmup match despite bowling 6 overs and with Ashwin picking up wickets.So I do think it wont be a bad move if he could be replaced by Karn.

 

[abhi_jacko]

Karn finishes with three wickets and Samson makes 4 catches.I know warmup matches doesn't matters much but still,with Jadeja not being the best and plus he is wicketless in this warmup match despite bowling 6 overs and with Ashwin picking up wickets.So I do think it wont be a bad move if he could be replaced by Karn.

I wish this would happen. We be great to go with a proper spinner. But the chances of that happening are slim

I would be really surprised and impressed if Dhoni picks either Rayudu for Raina, or Karn for Jadeja

 

[SaiSrini]

The WI series that's coming up is the best time to introduce the new test captain. Start with a home series, then progress to the tough tour of Australia. Dhoni continues as test wicketkeeper batsman, and also continues as India's limited overs captain/keeper-batsman. Only his captaincy in tests has been taken away from him and being given to Kohli (or Pujara; but ideally Kohli who has been built into the successor role).

Dhoni's test captaincy is the reason why we have not been able to take advantage of opportunities that come up, and when we are down, his highly unimaginative captaincy ensures that we plunge even lower. As Gundappa Vishwanath recently stated, Dhoni keeps waiting for miracles to happen. People often say Dhoni can only do much with the kind of bowling/batting attacks he has. Well, that's just defending Dhoni. These guys are picked because these guys are talented and capable. Are you seriously telling me that the likes of Aaron, Shami, Kumar, Ishant, Pandey, Ashwin are not good bowlers for international cricket? You need to use them well. Dhoni didn't even try Aaron until the 4th test. He never used Ishwar Pandey at all. His field placings at times border on lunacy. His body language (which can be helpful in the pressure cooker environment of limited overs) is not at all helping in tests where he needs to project a more commanding personality. He is not cool from the inside, he has successfully wore it on the outside.

 

[grkrama]

I am sure both Fletcher and Dhoni decided on those tactics together

yes except for msd its one of his jobs and responsibilities, for Fletcher it is the main one. Im yet to see a situation were a loosing captain wont take a better tactic offered by a coach and if it happened it speaks volumes of that coach, kristen wouldn't have sat there letting msd do as he wishes, if you follow msd, he doesn't actually want to do such stuff if there are better people, when zak was there he made the bowling plans and attacks.
So if fletcher was offering real good plans and tactics, im sure MSD wouldn't have bossed him saying i know better, everybody wants to win.
Can you remember the last time our bowling had an actual plan since fletcher and dawes.


the thing regarding selection is, all captains have to carry that burden, there will always be one talented guy benched, and two will be called your pets or cronies. Ganguly benched murali etc.Still im not saying msd is right, surely the sharmas have to go , one sharma has a chance if he can be consistent and jadeja is a limited overs player at best.

Im just saying right now is not the time if not the worst.

 

[SaiSrini]

Good to see Karn among the wickets, and Jadeja not among the wickets. Karn can bat too.

Though just a warmup, encouraging to see India seizing the opportunity created by the initial burst of wickets and finishing it soon enough rather than let the opposition get back into it.

 

[abhi_jacko]

@grkrama - I agree right now is not the time. And I also agree that Feltcher seems absolutely useless. Anyways, I don't want to criticize Dhoni over and over. It feels wrong, so I will stop :P

Found this. Nothing shocking, but stil a good read:
Ravi Shastri Approached During Manchester Test; BCCI in no Hurry to Sack Duncan Fletcher