India Team Discussion

[zwarrior]

technically short 'Saurav Ganguly'

What now ? Ganguly was technically short ? I agree with Sehwag, but not with Ganguly.

Didn't want to continue this in the original thread as it does not belong there, so posted here.

 

[SaiSrini]

What now ? Ganguly was technically short ? I agree with Sehwag, but not with Ganguly.

Didn't want to continue this in the original thread as it does not belong there, so posted here.

Yes, Ganguly indeed had technical issues in his batting. The 'short ball conundrum' started off with him. He had issues with the moving ball (like most Indian batsmen have) and he was not as adept as Sachin, Dravid or Laxman to wade through tough periods in challenging conditions.

 

[zwarrior]

Yes, Ganguly indeed had technical issues in his batting. The 'short ball conundrum' started off with him. He had issues with the moving ball (like most Indian batsmen have) and he was not as adept as Sachin, Dravid or Laxman to wade through tough periods in challenging conditions.

Yes. He did not adapt to short ball. But he was decent against moving ball issue. Apart from Australia and NZ, he has scored runs in England, SA and WI in those conditions. He has healthy average (test + odi ) in those countries(yes not as good as Sachin or Dravid ) but that is decent enough. And no one can match his skills in playing those strokes in offside. The only thing that troubled him was short ball which was throughout his career. Moving ball troubled almost all Indian batsmen but it doesn't put Ganguly in Sehwag/Raina bracket nor in Sachin-Dravid bracket. He belonged to the middle ground. Telling that he was technically short and comparing him with Raina and Sehwag is not right according to me.

 

[LiveLoveABD]

http://www.espncricinfo.com/story/_/id/21364391/ravi-shastri-hits-people-waiting-see-end-ms-dhoni

I see the words 'ultimate team man' mentioned a lot. We don't need an ass like Shastri telling us this. I don't think there's an Indian out there who doesn't recognise what Dhoni has done for India. If you put Rahul Dravid back in the Indian team today, he will still be the 'ultimate team man.' The debate is whether he qualifies as India's best WK batsman in the T20 format? I'm guessing you have to be the 'ultimate team man' whenever you play for the country? But, I guess that's something new for a coaching genius like Shastri. Wasn't the ex-coach widely regarded as the 'ultimate team man' recently sacked because the captain didn't like him?

The more this moron leads our management, the more insulting the viewing public will feel. People like Laxman, Dravid, Ganguly etc. are not going to be jealous of Dhoni. People like myself, @SaiSrini, @aditya123, @zwarrior have nothing to be jealous about Dhoni. He gave us our greatest cricketing moments (2007, 2011) and if we were immortals I could watch him play till I die. But, reality doesn't work like that. But, the phantasma of Kohli and Shastri marches on. Sometimes, I actually feel like cheering for our opponents but the patriotism kicks in.

 

[SaiSrini]

Who takes Shastri seriously anyday? I don't give two hoots about what he says, and that's been the case ever since I knew who he was. I am NOT waiting to see the end of Dhoni as he is implying (that 'jealous' comment is targeted at certain ex-cricketers, and that's a different argument that can be addressed separately). There is a huge majority of Indian fans who love Dhoni and regard him as the modern day cricketing legend but yet they want us to give up playing T20's because he does not suit the format anymore. He has been struggling for very long to connect with the big hits and bowlers around the world have worked him out and don't feed him hittable deliveries anymore. And at this age, he is not going to change his game drastically to be able to have a 'second wind'. He can still very much play IPL/domestic T20 cricket because of his agile keeping acumen and also the bowling quality in domestic cricket is a few notches below international cricket.

But there is no 'waiting to see the end of him' here. When Dhoni hangs up his boots, we are all going to feel a sense of void and that feeling of 'emptyness' is going to happen. And that means we are all fans of the guy. Not like what Shastri is implying

 

[LiveLoveABD]

Who takes Shastri seriously anyday? I don't give two hoots about what he says, and that's been the case ever since I knew who he was. I am NOT waiting to see the end of Dhoni as he is implying (that 'jealous' comment is targeted at certain ex-cricketers, and that's a different argument that can be addressed separately). There is a huge majority of Indian fans who love Dhoni and regard him as the modern day cricketing legend but yet they want us to give up playing T20's because he does not suit the format anymore. He has been struggling for very long to connect with the big hits and bowlers around the world have worked him out and don't feed him hittable deliveries anymore. And at this age, he is not going to change his game drastically to be able to have a 'second wind'. He can still very much play IPL/domestic T20 cricket because of his agile keeping acumen and also the bowling quality in domestic cricket is a few notches below international cricket.

But there is no 'waiting to see the end of him' here. When Dhoni hangs up his boots, we are all going to feel a sense of void and that feeling of 'emptyness' is going to happen. And that means we are all fans of the guy. Not like what Shastri is implying

Just on the Shastri subject? He's the national team's coach. It's a disgrace if he's not taken seriously. By the way Sai, Kohli is now the only all 3 formats India player for certain. Liking the power play? :P

 

[SaiSrini]

Just on the Shastri subject? He's the national team's coach. It's a disgrace if he's not taken seriously. By the way Sai, Kohli is now the only all 3 formats India player for certain. Liking the power play? :P

Actually I don't care much about Kohli being the only guy certain for all 3 formats. With the kind of maddening schedule that India is forced to play (because the cash-rich BCCI wants to milk the golden goose to maddening levels), its actually good that only Kohli is the guy who is certain to play all 3 formats.

On the Shastri topic, well Kohli wanted a yes-man and he got it. Well he has made a lot of people openly come out and say that the captain has to hold all the aces and should be the power centre of Indian cricket. I totally despise that setup (according to me, the captain should never be the power centre of Indian cricket, since he is a player himself and is competing with other players in terms of career). A team captain should lead only on the field. Who gets to play and who gets selected in the squad and who coaches the team should be in no way, under the purview of the team captain, which is Virat Kohli right now.

 

[CerealKiller]

Surprised this hasn't received more attention. http://www.hindustantimes.com/crick...-wada-wrath/story-g7zz1kNhQSWGttz2dFTkQJ.html
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2017/nov/14/cricket-doping-t20-the-spin

The BCCI is refusing its players to be tested by the World Anti Doping Agency, which, unlike the agency that does dope tests for them, conducts its tests randomly. Tens of thousands of global athletes undergo these tests, and they don't have any so called "privacy problem". Elite world athletes have no problem with this clause, yet Indian cricketers supposedly do.
If the BCCI continue this stupid stance, the Indian National Anti Doping Agency could lose its WADA accreditation, which would hurt Indian sport in general in its fight against doping.
Anyone can explain the reason of this idiotic stance by the BCCI?

 

[SaiSrini]

Surprised this hasn't received more attention. http://www.hindustantimes.com/crick...-wada-wrath/story-g7zz1kNhQSWGttz2dFTkQJ.html
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2017/nov/14/cricket-doping-t20-the-spin

The BCCI is refusing its players to be tested by the World Anti Doping Agency, which, unlike the agency that does dope tests for them, conducts its tests randomly. Tens of thousands of global athletes undergo these tests, and they don't have any so called "privacy problem". Elite world athletes have no problem with this clause, yet Indian cricketers supposedly do.
If the BCCI continue this stupid stance, the India National Anti Doping Agency could lose its WADA accreditation, which would hurt Indian sport in general in its fight against doping.
Anyone can explain the reason of this idiotic stance by the BCCI?

We don't have any BCCI representatives here in this forum.

 

[CerealKiller]

We don't have any BCCI representatives here in this forum.

I know, but i was wondering if any Indian member can explain why the BCCI always takes these ridiculous, self-entitled positions

 

[WubbaLubbaDubDub]

I know, but i was wondering if any Indian member can explain why the BCCI always takes these ridiculous, self-entitled positions

Not a BCCI fan nor a hater. BCCI has mentioned it has facilities in place and hence it does not require it to be part of the WADA as you also mentioned. I see no harm if the players be tested by government doping agency if that doping agency as you said is part of WADA as it has its accreditation. Its simple, in Mumbai most of the universities are affiliated and accredited by Mumbai University for education, students get a degree from Mumbai University but we study in different colleges and not Mumbai University.

Secondly, I do not think ICC has anywhere mentioned all countries must be dope tested by WADA. If ICC mentions that and BCCI does not follow then that is a breach of ICC laws. Correct me if I am wrong on this point.

As long as players are dope tested randomly every now and then, I do not see the fuzz around why it should be WADA or IWADA

 

[CerealKiller]

Not a BCCI fan nor a hater. BCCI has mentioned it has facilities in place and hence it does not require it to be part of the WADA as you also mentioned. I see no harm if the players be tested by government doping agency if that doping agency as you said is part of WADA as it has its accreditation. Its simple, in Mumbai most of the universities are affiliated and accredited by Mumbai University for education, students get a degree from Mumbai University but we study in different colleges and not Mumbai University.

Secondly, I do not think ICC has anywhere mentioned all countries must be dope tested by WADA. If ICC mentions that and BCCI does not follow then that is a breach of ICC laws. Correct me if I am wrong on this point.

As long as players are dope tested randomly every now and then, I do not see the fuzz around why it should be WADA or IWADA

From the articles

According to a report in Times of India, WADA has asked the International Cricket Council (ICC) to direct the BCCI to allow drug-testing of Indian cricketers by the National Anti Doping Agency(NADA). The report stated that the global anti-doping body has reportedly warned that if the Indian agency fails to achieve the demand, then it could lose WADA accreditation.

In a letter written by WADA’s Director General Olivier Niggli to Union sports minister Rajyavardhan Singh Rathore, it added that NADA’s ability to conduct an effective anti-doping programme in cricket has been hampered by BCCI’s reluctance and pointed out that NADA’s anti-doping rules give it full jurisdiction and authority over all sports in India.

The global body’s intervention has come after an audit of NADA’s anti-doping programme in April found that the BCCI does not recognize NADA’s authority and neither does it permit any anti-doping regime in cricket.

If NADA loses WADA accreditation, then it could affect Indian sport’s fight against doping. The country’s participation could also be in trouble as there would be no WADA-accredited agency to test the athletes.

ICC has been a WADA signatory since 2006. Under the terms, the BCCI also comes under the Anti-Doping Agency code as it is an ICC member. This should give NADA the authority to dope-test Indian cricketers.

The squabble between the two seems to have become yet another baroque power struggle for control over an aspect of the sport in India. But the upshot is that the issue of anti-doping has become politicised, and, as a result, opaque, confused, and convoluted.

 

[WubbaLubbaDubDub]

From the articles

Ok so from what I understood is BCCI is not allowing NADA also to test. So in short BCCI does not want anyone to test doping? Thats bullshit! I hope the newly formed sports minister changes this. The problem is that with Supreme Court appointed BCCI they dont do shit as well. People elected got way too much money and power and felt it as new BCCI members. The new sports minister for a change is a sports athlete and hopefully he can resolve it. Valid point @CerealKiller

 

[aditya123]

The only good thing about Shastri being the coach is that it keeps him away from the commentary box. Why would players of the stature of Ganguly or Laxman be jealous of Dhoni. The cold fact is that Dhoni is blocking a spot in the T20 side and he is surely not going to be around (or get any better) by the time the 2020 T20 WC comes around. In fact, the T20Is, which are pointless anyway, would allow us to try out new talent who can then be inducted into the ODI side. For instance, it would`nt hurt to give more chances to Sanju Samson or Rishabh Pant in T20Is. I`d even go to the other extreme to suggest that we need not field most of our Test/ODI regulars in bi-lateral T20s. Maybe we could rotate 3 slots for the ODI regulars and use these matches for grooming and easing youngsters into internationals. However, with guys like Shastri who think that any criticism comes from a place of insecurity and jealousy, I do not expect anything that shapes Indian cricket in a good way.

 

[CerealKiller]

What happened to Gurkeerat Singh Mann? Had excellent FC numbers, if i remember correctly, but never got to play a Test.