India tour of Australia Nov'20-Jan'21

[NILAYSHAH60]

I don't think every Indian fan is frustrated with India's batting except for the one guy on here who is clearly having a hard time dealing with the result giving the impression that India's problem is with batting. I've not seen a single post commending Australia's bowling, it was mostly immaculate bowling from Cummins and Hazlewood, with movement off the pitch and the pink ball doing its bit moving about. I think they bowled consistently well in some really good areas with prompted the batsmen to play and there were some unplayable deliveries like the one to Pujara. The core of the Indian batting lineup is pretty damn good, it's not really the borderline issue. Today was just a masterclass of line and length bowling by the Aussies and the Indian batsmen were caught out and couldn't do anything to stem the damage. Batsmen seemed to be quite legside-ish of the ball for the most part and there were some bad shots played. But that is how cricket is, and its an unpredictable sport and that's the beauty of it. Don't think its something to be incredibly alarmed about, doubt there will be collapse of this magnitude again in the series.

For the most part the Indian fans on here are mostly frustrated with the tactical decision making of the Kohli-Shastri duo, and the fact that Kohli having way too much power as our premier batsmen and captain, in decisions such as kicking Kumble out after CT17 or using his power to rope back in a personal favorite in Shastri. It's been an underlying sentiment for a while now but again it's easy to use that to blame for today's result. Really it was just a bad day for the Indian team and they could find no sort of resistance against that spell of bowling.

I just hope that performance will wake up the management to make some tough calls that need to be made, even if that's wishful thinking. Shaw has looked out of sorts ever since the second half of the IPL, and clearly has a glaring weakness that the Aussies will continue to exploit. I wouldn't actually mind playing Rahul at the top of the order, he's been in pretty fine nick batting wise even if he hasn't played the tour games. Shubman Gill should definitely be given a chance, at 6 while everyone else moves one up. Feel confident that the team will be able to bounce back, particularly given the bowling has been impressive.

Absolutely agree with this. I think most of the sides would definitely not be able to put up a score these days with the kind of bowling that was on offer so definitely a lot of credit to the bowlers for bowling such an accurate spell. I don't necessarily think that people are having any hard time dealing with the result. I think we are very much used to results like this in the past so as most of the Indian Cricket fans out there. If they were actually having a hard time they would've come up with statements like

1. India can't play in Overseas
2. They score on flat tracks
3. Australia didn't bowl that well but Indians threw away their wickets because facing a good bowling line-up isn't their cup of tea

None of the statements above were found in any of the posts.

Now listen carefully what I am trying to say. The spell that we saw today was actually one of the great spells you would see. I wouldn't want to be that much harsh on Indian batting because it was definitely difficult to survive that spell. See this is Cricket and funny things have happened in this game and it would continue to happen and nobody could do anything much about it. But then, I think things could've been slightly better if Indian batsmen applied themselves a little more. We do have a strong core in our batting line-up but they are definitely not firing together or you could say one or two of them consistently putting up a fight. If I remember correctly this side got nearly bowled out on a 100 in Cape Town against the likes or Morkel, Rabada, Steyn & Philander if we didn't have Hardik Pandya that day. This is the same side that was about to get bowled out on a similar score in Edgbaston if Kohli didn't score that 149. And they actually got knocked over on a sub-par 100 in both innings in Lord's Test back in 2018 with Jimmy Anderson running through the line-up. I think these collapses actually peaked when we toured New Zealand earlier this year which actually was one of our disastrous tours in a long-time. I think we won't have another 36 all out for atleast a decade now but then this team would continue to collapse and get bowled out under 150-200 on consistent basis with the nature they have. This batting line-up doesn't have enough to sustain a hostile spell or a collapse from a quality fast bowling line-up. Every time you get early wickets against them they would falter and this is a fact of this team.

Now you see there are teams like Sri Lanka, West Indies and Pakistan who have consistency issues with their batting but then they somehow find their ways to get through a hostile spell. Yasir Shah has scored a 100 for Pakistan against Australia. Sri Lanka have won a Test series in South Africa. Also there are instances when quality batting line-ups falter for a sub-par or a low score. Infact India themselves have forced a terrible batting display from South Africa bowling them out for a 105 (South Africa already had around a 70 on the board with losing just 1 wicket so that was actually similar to what happened to India Today). But India's issue is different. This infact is becoming a little regular with them so this definitely is an alarming situation for sure.

Also the conditions today were a little easy and the bowling line-up also a little hostile than what an Indian side in the past had faced. You remember the Durban Test in 2010? That Indian side was playing on a seaming wicket which had a lot of movement and they were facing the likes of Morkel, Steyn, Tsotsobe(although not that good but an effective bowler), Parnell & Kallis. That match India went on to score 250+ twice in the match and not just that, they actually won the match. Now it is no joke though to have players of Tendulkar, Laxman and Dravid's calibre but atleast there could be a little efforts taken to replicate that sort of a quality. Even if 30% progress is made it would be actually very commendable.

Also the real issue is these guys are to be trusted and they need to be given enough opportunities which they are not getting. Now the next match you would bring Rishabh Pant thinking that he did well in the Warm-up but do you think he would perform? No he won't. Why? Because the very next match he was dropped. Now think about the damage it would've done to his confidence. That's all I had to say.

 

[Ashutosh.]

I can see Kohli fans on social media ferociously defend his captaincy saying that he couldn't have done anything to change what happened today.

Please don't talk about social media. Social media is full of idiots.
See this comment.

One Pakistani fan commented that Yasir Shah scored 113 vs Australia in Adelaide and India scored only 36.

I have no words for them.

 

[CerealKiller]

One Pakistani fan commented that Yasir Shah scored 113 vs Australia in Adelaide and India scored only 36.

Social media idiocy knows no borders

 

[hammadahmed88]

I think the reason Indian fans are frustrated (and I’m referring to genuine, knowledgeable fans, not idiots whose brain has been eaten by social media) is that you can see that the sheer amount of batting talent in India is unbelievable, yet their batting order has been really unstable, selection policies have been laughable, their coach is a joke, and despite their best bowling attack ever, including a sensational talent like Bumrah and fantastic spinners, a team that should be the undisputed number one is floundering against top sides outside Asia.
I mean, Karun Nair scored 300, and was discarded. That’s just the most glaring example. Kohli hasn’t won any trophy, despite having the two best batsmen, and the best bowler in LOs. Heck, you can even look at his IPL captaincy record.

I agree that Kohli not having won a major trophy is a legitimate criticism. I would say though that this alone shouldn't be determining factor of his captaincy. I'm nor sure about this, but did Ganguly ever win an ICC trophy as captain? I'm thinking no, but I could be wrong. I consider him to be probably the best captain India has had simply because of the way he changed the culture. I think Kohli is nowhere near Ganguly as captain, obviously, but he's still pretty good I would say. I don't put too much stock into domestic league captaincies. I think the international level is a different ball game. From what I've seen, he seems to be fine as captain. But you're right, not having consistent successes with this team is definitely at least a question mark.

I don't think every Indian fan is frustrated with India's batting except for the one guy on here who is clearly having a hard time dealing with the result giving the impression that India's problem is with batting. I've not seen a single post commending Australia's bowling, it was mostly immaculate bowling from Cummins and Hazlewood, with movement off the pitch and the pink ball doing its bit moving about. I think they bowled consistently well in some really good areas with prompted the batsmen to play and there were some unplayable deliveries like the one to Pujara. The core of the Indian batting lineup is pretty damn good, it's not really the borderline issue. Today was just a masterclass of line and length bowling by the Aussies and the Indian batsmen were caught out and couldn't do anything to stem the damage. Batsmen seemed to be quite legside-ish of the ball for the most part and there were some bad shots played. But that is how cricket is, and its an unpredictable sport and that's the beauty of it. Don't think its something to be incredibly alarmed about, doubt there will be collapse of this magnitude again in the series.

For the most part the Indian fans on here are mostly frustrated with the tactical decision making of the Kohli-Shastri duo, and the fact that Kohli having way too much power as our premier batsmen and captain, in decisions such as kicking Kumble out after CT17 or using his power to rope back in a personal favorite in Shastri. It's been an underlying sentiment for a while now but again it's easy to use that to blame for today's result. Really it was just a bad day for the Indian team and they could find no sort of resistance against that spell of bowling.

I just hope that performance will wake up the management to make some tough calls that need to be made, even if that's wishful thinking. Shaw has looked out of sorts ever since the second half of the IPL, and clearly has a glaring weakness that the Aussies will continue to exploit. I wouldn't actually mind playing Rahul at the top of the order, he's been in pretty fine nick batting wise even if he hasn't played the tour games. Shubman Gill should definitely be given a chance, at 6 while everyone else moves one up. Feel confident that the team will be able to bounce back, particularly given the bowling has been impressive.

I completely agree with this. The way Anil Kumble's situation was handled was a complete disgrace. I've admittedly never been a fan of Shastri's. That's all I'll say since I don't have anything good to say about him particularly. This is just a hunch but I think he has too much of an influence over Kohli. It seems to me like Kohli needs to make these decisions himself. Shastri is far from a tactical wizard. Again, my love for Kohli as a cricket player might be biasing my opinion here, but that's what it seems like to me at least. I've never understood this fascination they have with "attacking cricket". You need your Dravid's in a Test lineup that can just bring the game to a halt. India's batting definitely lacks that outside of Pujara.

 

[Velocity]

Absolutely agree with this. I think most of the sides would definitely not be able to put up a score these days with the kind of bowling that was on offer so definitely a lot of credit to the bowlers for bowling such an accurate spell. I don't necessarily think that people are having any hard time dealing with the result. I think we are very much used to results like this in the past so as most of the Indian Cricket fans out there. If they were actually having a hard time they would've come up with statements like

1. India can't play in Overseas
2. They score on flat tracks
3. Australia didn't bowl that well but Indians threw away their wickets because facing a good bowling line-up isn't their cup of tea

None of the statements above were found in any of the posts.

Now listen carefully what I am trying to say. The spell that we saw today was actually one of the great spells you would see. I wouldn't want to be that much harsh on Indian batting because it was definitely difficult to survive that spell. See this is Cricket and funny things have happened in this game and it would continue to happen and nobody could do anything much about it. But then, I think things could've been slightly better if Indian batsmen applied themselves a little more. We do have a strong core in our batting line-up but they are definitely not firing together or you could say one or two of them consistently putting up a fight. If I remember correctly this side got nearly bowled out on a 100 in Cape Town against the likes or Morkel, Rabada, Steyn & Philander if we didn't have Hardik Pandya that day. This is the same side that was about to get bowled out on a similar score in Edgbaston if Kohli didn't score that 149. And they actually got knocked over on a sub-par 100 in both innings in Lord's Test back in 2018 with Jimmy Anderson running through the line-up. I think these collapses actually peaked when we toured New Zealand earlier this year which actually was one of our disastrous tours in a long-time. I think we won't have another 36 all out for atleast a decade now but then this team would continue to collapse and get bowled out under 150-200 on consistent basis with the nature they have. This batting line-up doesn't have enough to sustain a hostile spell or a collapse from a quality fast bowling line-up. Every time you get early wickets against them they would falter and this is a fact of this team.

Now you see there are teams like Sri Lanka, West Indies and Pakistan who have consistency issues with their batting but then they somehow find their ways to get through a hostile spell. Yasir Shah has scored a 100 for Pakistan against Australia. Sri Lanka have won a Test series in South Africa. Also there are instances when quality batting line-ups falter for a sub-par or a low score. Infact India themselves have forced a terrible batting display from South Africa bowling them out for a 105 (South Africa already had around a 70 on the board with losing just 1 wicket so that was actually similar to what happened to India Today). But India's issue is different. This infact is becoming a little regular with them so this definitely is an alarming situation for sure.

Also the conditions today were a little easy and the bowling line-up also a little hostile than what an Indian side in the past had faced. You remember the Durban Test in 2010? That Indian side was playing on a seaming wicket which had a lot of movement and they were facing the likes of Morkel, Steyn, Tsotsobe(although not that good but an effective bowler), Parnell & Kallis. That match India went on to score 250+ twice in the match and not just that, they actually won the match. Now it is no joke though to have players of Tendulkar, Laxman and Dravid's calibre but atleast there could be a little efforts taken to replicate that sort of a quality. Even if 30% progress is made it would be actually very commendable.

Also the real issue is these guys are to be trusted and they need to be given enough opportunities which they are not getting. Now the next match you would bring Rishabh Pant thinking that he did well in the Warm-up but do you think he would perform? No he won't. Why? Because the very next match he was dropped. Now think about the damage it would've done to his confidence. That's all I had to say.

To be completely honest your post sounds like a knee jerk reaction without a concrete argument. You're throwing random matches, and throwing around the "what-ifs" which don't have any relevance now, yes Kohli scored a 149 to get to a good first innings total in England and what if he didn't isn't worth debating about. You are definitely wrong about the first point, India have played quite well overseas and it was the shitty team management that had let us down in several of those tours. England and SA could've been won whilst being a close series, but it didn't happen but that doesn't support the argument that "India can't play overseas". If I recall correctly, the Indian team played the exact same bowling attack from the 2018 Oz tour as they did now when they folded like a deck of cards yesterday. You may argue Smith and Warner were not there, but their impact on this game was literally nothing.

Secondly, any team scores on flat tracks, just because they exist in India and they score 400-500 on those wickets, that doesn't mean anything at all. Australia last year scored around 500 against both NZ and Pak easily, are you calling them a bunch of flat track bullies? And if you're implying the contrary, that India cannot score on greentop wickets or seaming wickets, any other cricketing team equally struggles as well. The only team I've seen that plays well on greentops are the likes of NZ who literally play in greentops in their early domestic season in their own backyard, meaning they are used to them more than any other team. Similarly, Indian batsmen play spin well because they play on spinning tracks and are taught to handle spin from an early age.

You contradicted your own point that SL, WI and Pak always find a "way" when they face hostile bowling. Kohli's 149 and Pandya's 90 in SA are great examples of dogged resistance on a tough pitch against quality bowlers. In response to your Durban 2010 Test argument, I do recall that in the 2018 Jo'burg Test, Kohli and Pujara (as you state) 'applied' themselves brilliantly on a very tough pitch with uneven bounce that was a nightmare for the batsmen. Pujara, Kohli and Rahane may not be on the same level as Sachin, Laxman, or Dravid, but they are damn fine batsmen and they have played some brilliant knocks on that SA tour in addition to others, and that's literally discrediting them for consolidating that solid Indian Test middle order.

In all, I don't think any other team could have survived that sort of assault from the Aussie bowlers. They're top quality fast bowlers who will knock over any team given some assistance and landing it in the right area. I highly disagree that they were not bowling that well, as they beat the bat several times, got the ball to jag around and got the batsmen playing an deliveries that put you in two minds. Perhaps watching some of those highlights will make you see what I mean. Some of that stuff was unplayable.

This post sounds like a contradictory mishmash of out of context matches to support an argument which frankly is trying to find some sort of blame or reason to the result. Better to except it as it is, while it's shocking at the end of the day the opposition played better and your team just had a bad day and didn't play to its potential. It happens.

 

[Velocity]

Not really! MCG will be very different. Back to the red ball, a drop-in pitch, back to day games and a ground that in recent times has favored batting and slowness. In such conditions, Jadeja can be a good bet over Vihari.

I am tilting towards Saini over Siraj (to replace Shami). Saini has accumulated quite a bit of international experience by playing for India in limited overs, and it only makes sense that he gets the chance over Siraj.

I don't think Vihari has done much wrong to be left out like that. Playing Jaddu will definitely strengthen the bowling but I'd still back Vihari to come up good for the next game. The bowling attack seems in good hands besides the latest injury in Shami. Coupled with the inclusion of possibly a debut for Shubman Gill, I don't think it's necessary to swap out another batsman for Jaddu.

I would prefer Siraj over Saini. India already have an all out raw pacer in Yadav who can crank it up and Siraj is more suited to play the Shami role of controlling one end with some decent line and length. Saini seems like a Yadav type bowler who's gonna leak runs and lose control of one end which puts pressure on Bumrah and Yadav. A workhorse in Siraj sounds more ideal to replace Shami.

 

[SaiSrini]

Question - has any pink ball test match gone into the 5th day? How many have ended within 3 days? India's first one against Bangladesh ended in 3 days as well. Is the pink ball amplifying the challenges that already exist for visiting teams? To India's credit, they were the side ahead after the first innings was completed for both sides. But that collapse in the 2nd innings after a dominant first innings show, just shook the cricketing world.

 

[NILAYSHAH60]

Australia last year scored around 500 against both NZ and Pak easily, are you calling them a bunch of flat track bullies?

I highly disagree that they were not bowling that well, as they beat the bat several times, got the ball to jag around and got the batsmen playing an deliveries that put you in two minds. Perhaps watching some of those highlights will make you see what I mean. Some of that stuff was unplayable.

I just gave an example and did not say those statements. I said around 3 times that the spell from Australia one of the best. And what you did was conveniently ignore it.

Pujara, Kohli and Rahane may not be on the same level as Sachin, Laxman, or Dravid, but they are damn fine batsmen and they have played some brilliant knocks on that SA tour in addition to others, and that's literally discrediting them for consolidating that solid Indian Test middle order.

I did not disagree to this at all. I never said they haven't done well what I was saying is they aren't able to do that consistently.

it's shocking at the end of the day the opposition played better and your team just had a bad day and didn't play to its potential. It happens.

I said exactly this. Just read carefully. I don't know where have I been negative to any extent with my post. If you still think so I am very sorry for that.

 

[LiveLoveABD]

Question - has any pink ball test match gone into the 5th day? How many have ended within 3 days? India's first one against Bangladesh ended in 3 days as well. Is the pink ball amplifying the challenges that already exist for visiting teams? To India's credit, they were the side ahead after the first innings was completed for both sides. But that collapse in the 2nd innings after a dominant first innings show, just shook the cricketing world.

I really enjoy the pink ball tests. I think it's the way forward as well. I don't think any track is a 36 track and I personally don't have an issue with India being bowled out for that much. Sh!t happens. What @Velocity is saying is pretty much on the money. Our frustration is with the management and their arrogance amplifies it. As you said and rightly said, India were ahead after the first innings. This Aussie team has a world class attack probably the best in the world right now but I don't think they are anywhere near a world class unit yet because I don't think they have a very good batting line up. There are 1-2 legends but that's it.

 

[LiveLoveABD]

Just to let you guys know something I have heard today. Jonty Rhodes had applied for the role of fielding coach but he was rejected as the bright Shastri and Kohli wanted R Sridhar.

 

[NILAYSHAH60]

Just to let you guys know something I have heard today. Jonty Rhodes had applied for the role of fielding coach but he was rejected as the bright Shastri and Kohli wanted R Sridhar.

Yes this is true. I heard this about a week ago.

 

[LiveLoveABD]

I am getting a bad feeling that Monk and Jinks will be made scapegoats from a disastrous tour.

 

[NILAYSHAH60]

I am getting a bad feeling that Monk and Jinks will be made scapegoats from a disastrous tour.

I really hope that it isn't the case with them. These are genuinely high quality batsman in the country + they are experienced players atleast in the first class format. And to lose them would be a great loss for sure!! Just hope they aren't made scapegoats.

 

[LiveLoveABD]

Just to highlight how appalling this management is and how poor the communication channels are. Shreyas is back in India via Dubai so now with Kohli back we are in a situation that if any of our batters get injured then we might have to play Shaw out of no choice or play Pant as a batter.

 

[NILAYSHAH60]

Just to highlight how appalling this management is and how poor the communication channels are. Shreyas is back in India via Dubai so now with Kohli back we are in a situation that if any of our batters get injured then we might have to play Shaw out of no choice or play Pant as a batter.

I wonder had we sent a big squad of 20-members just like how Pakistan did for the New Zealand series could it have a positive effect for Team India? The major question is why did we even take Shaw to Australia on the first place considering how poor his technique looked even in the IPL? Also what have played with the mind of that guy? I mean if we go and find out his videos of 2018 U19 World Cup his bat was a lot closer to his pads. There are 2 players whose success in the U19 World Cup made them complacent. One of whom is our current Captain and the other was Unmukt Chand. The difference was the former kept performing with sheer dedication and kept improving his game and the latter never improved. Shaw needs to decide which way he wants to head to. The board needs to take a tough call on him or it would be too late.