India tour of New Zealand - Jan to Feb 2014

[Champagnepapi]

I hope Ishwar Pandey gets a go instead of Zaheer for the last game.

 

[aditya123]

I hope Ishwar Pandey gets a go instead of Zaheer for the last game.

Knock knock. Just 2 test matches.

 

[surendar]

Just amazed at the current outcome of our team, looks like our boys have got special energy & team spirit since valentine's day!

Just wow!!! Rahane proved in SA & now in Kiwiland, good signs for our youngsters.

 

[War]

And I dare say this again - don't give India a green pitch. It makes our bowlers (yes, bowlers like Ishant) our weapons. The best way right now to beat India is to make our bowlers listless, and that is with pitches that don't provide close to any support to the bowlers. That way, the opposition can pile up runs and India's batsmen will wilt under pressure of the runs they have to chase.

Ye sure the green pitch helped the IND bowlers on day 1, although i suspect when NZ picked 5 quicks, they probably wanted to bowl 1st too. However I don't think this bowling performance would deter other overseas opposition, like ENG in the summer for eg from preparing greentops.

NZ batting didn't have the same middle-order strength without Taylor & Ryder (although as i type, they could step up in the second innings).

A stronger opposition batting line-up of ENG/AUS/SA would clearly have to weary of IND quicks on a seamer - but they would back their home batters to handle IND quicks on their own wickets - better than IND batsmen handling their pacers.

 

[aditya123]

Ye sure the green pitch helped the IND bowlers on day 1, although i suspect when NZ picked 5 quicks, they probably wanted to bowl 1st too. However I don't think this bowling performance would deter other overseas opposition, like ENG in the summer for eg from preparing greentops.

NZ batting didn't have the same middle-order strength without Taylor & Ryder (although as i type, they could step up in the second innings).

A stronger opposition batting line-up of ENG/AUS/SA would clearly have to weary of IND quicks on a seamer - but they would back their home batters to handle IND quicks on their own wickets - better than IND batsmen handling their pacers.

Its not just about this game War. Its become a trend over all of India`s good overseas results. More recently we saw that at Joburg. Previously since 2001 if you look at India`s marquee wins overseas its come in Trinidad (on a spicy track in 2002), Headingley (2002), Trent Bridge (2007), Joburg (2006), Durban (2010), Rawalpindi (2004), Jamaica (2006) and Perth (2008) all came in conditions which the home team thought would favor their seamers and the Indian seamers ended up getting some teeth. On the contrary, most of our defeats have come under good batting conditions, be it MCG 2003 or SCG 2008 and Durban 2014. Goes to reiterate the fact.

Our bowlers aren`t our strength and they are the ones who need support from the conditions. Our batting can generally compete on an even keel and thus gives us a chance to compete in spicy conditions.

 

[sifter132]

^I would agree. Why give India's weakest part of the team a boost? Give them a road to play on and make their fast bowlers toil.

 

[Biggs]

We'll let you guys have this one... It's almost Rugby season...

 

[StinkyBoHoon]

Its not just about this game War. Its become a trend over all of India`s good overseas results. More recently we saw that at Joburg. Previously since 2001 if you look at India`s marquee wins overseas its come in Trinidad (on a spicy track in 2002), Headingley (2002), Trent Bridge (2007), Joburg (2006), Durban (2010), Rawalpindi (2004), Jamaica (2006) and Perth (2008) all came in conditions which the home team thought would favor their seamers and the Indian seamers ended up getting some teeth. On the contrary, most of our defeats have come under good batting conditions, be it MCG 2003 or SCG 2008 and Durban 2014. Goes to reiterate the fact.

Our bowlers aren`t our strength and they are the ones who need support from the conditions. Our batting can generally compete on an even keel and thus gives us a chance to compete in spicy conditions.

I'd just like to point out me and sai were both saying this on page 1 of the thread before the tour started.

it's long been a misconception of how to deal with india when they come to town. roll out the green tops and expect their wickets to tumble.

anyway, Rohit looking like the odd man out. if anyone in india fancies being part of the new look test team that's one spot up for grabs. Got to be the end Zaheer, and tbh, his inclusion might still cost india as ishant and shami taking all 20 between them is huge ask and khan just looks impotent.

 

[Aalay]

The other important thing is our catching was very good in the first inning. We did not drop any catches and supported our bowlers which made the difference. In the first inning of first test, I think we dropped 3 very simple catches of both Williamson and McCullum which allowed them to get to that total of 500.

 

[War]

Its not just about this game War. Its become a trend over all of India`s good overseas results. More recently we saw that at Joburg. Previously since 2001 if you look at India`s marquee wins overseas its come in Trinidad (on a spicy track in 2002), Headingley (2002), Trent Bridge (2007), Joburg (2006), Durban (2010), Rawalpindi (2004), Jamaica (2006) and Perth (2008) all came in conditions which the home team thought would favor their seamers and the Indian seamers ended up getting some teeth. On the contrary, most of our defeats have come under good batting conditions, be it MCG 2003 or SCG 2008 and Durban 2014. Goes to reiterate the fact.

Our bowlers aren`t our strength and they are the ones who need support from the conditions. Our batting can generally compete on an even keel and thus gives us a chance to compete in spicy conditions.

Yes but they have also lost overseas tests on seamers too during the improved overseas performing era since 2002: Perth 2011, various test in ENG 2011, Barbados & Jamaica 2002, Hamilton & Wellington 2002, Mumbai 2006, Capetown & Durban 2006/07, Nagpur 2004, Ahmedabad 2008, Karachi 2006.

So while its obvious IND quicks can do well when they get seaming/bouncy pitches overseas - its not to the point where any overseas team would ever feel they should as the poster SairSri said: "Never never never" give IND a green pitch etc.

AUS/SA/ENG/NZ would always back their batsmen to handle IND bowlers @ home on bowler friendly tracks, better than IND batsmen handling their bowlers, more often than not.

 

[StinkyBoHoon]

Yes but they have also lost overseas tests on seamers too during the improved overseas performing era since 2002: Perth 2011, various test in ENG 2011, Barbados & Jamaica 2002, Hamilton & Wellington 2002, Mumbai 2006, Capetown & Durban 2006/07, Nagpur 2004, Ahmedabad 2008, Karachi 2006.

So while its obvious IND quicks can do well when they get seaming/bouncy pitches overseas - its not to the point where any overseas team would ever feel they should as the poster SairSri said: "Never never never" give IND a green pitch etc.

AUS/SA/ENG/NZ would always back their batsmen to handle IND bowlers @ home on bowler friendly tracks, better than IND batsmen handling their bowlers, more often than not.

that's exactly right, they always do, and it nearly always comes back to bite them.

india have been bundled out for low scores no more or less than any other team.

new zealand for example were blown out for 45 and 68 on seaming tracks in 2013 alone by SAF and england. australia in recent years cape town (2011) by pakistan in leeds and sydney (2010), by england in melbourne (2010). south africa aren't doing too hot right now and have been demolished by johnston in the past. England to have suffered at pakistan and australia's hand very recently.

india have lost way more tests away due to feeble bowling on tracks that were unhelpful than they have because their batsmen weren't able to handle good bowling. hell, even south africa recently when the ball was actually doing things in the 1st innings in jo'burg it was india that ended with a 1st innings lead.

 

[SaiSrini]

Yes but they have also lost overseas tests on seamers too during the improved overseas performing era since 2002: Perth 2011, various test in ENG 2011, Barbados & Jamaica 2002, Hamilton & Wellington 2002, Mumbai 2006, Capetown & Durban 2006/07, Nagpur 2004, Ahmedabad 2008, Karachi 2006.

So while its obvious IND quicks can do well when they get seaming/bouncy pitches overseas - its not to the point where any overseas team would ever feel they should as the poster SairSri said: "Never never never" give IND a green pitch etc.

AUS/SA/ENG/NZ would always back their batsmen to handle IND bowlers @ home on bowler friendly tracks, better than IND batsmen handling their bowlers, more often than not.

Buddy, the trend has completely changed now. Before Indian batsmen used to shiver at the thought of batting on a greentop. I still remember those days when only Sachin used to valiantly play a good knock while the others around him will crumble. But since the Dravid-Laxman-Ganguly days, it changed. And as generation moves on, the fear factor has reduced even more.

We have faced SA in SA on a green pitch and have won before. We beat Australia at Perth in 2008 when it was regarded as their fastest wicket of that series (TBH, Australia won that famous series by winning matches at MCG and Sydney, two of the most batting friendly surfaces).

Our weakness is our bowling and they are completely listless when they are given a non-supportive track. But when the pitch is offering something, Indian bowlers became a lot more stronger.

 

[War]

that's exactly right, they always do, and it nearly always comes back to bite them.

india have been bundled out for low scores no more or less than any other team.

new zealand for example were blown out for 45 and 68 on seaming tracks in 2013 alone by SAF and england. australia in recent years cape town (2011) by pakistan in leeds and sydney (2010), by england in melbourne (2010). south africa aren't doing too hot right now and have been demolished by johnston in the past. England to have suffered at pakistan and australia's hand very recently.

india have lost way more tests away due to feeble bowling on tracks that were unhelpful than they have because their batsmen weren't able to handle good bowling. hell, even south africa recently when the ball was actually doing things in the 1st innings in jo'burg it was india that ended with a 1st innings lead.

Ye all true, but AUS/ENG/SA/NZ would still weigh up the options and deduce the chances of it coming back to bite them is a risk worth taking, simply because IND quicks are very inconsistent - Dhoni doesn't know what he is going to get from them in tests other than Zaheer.

Ishant has had two top tests this series for eg, but i've lost track at about of recent series threads on this forums i've seen all the IND posters calling for Sharma to be dropped for good. Before Ishant you had RP Singh & Sreesanth who also bowled well in various tests in ENG/AUS/SA - but were crap for the majority of their careers.

Even against a team like PAK who always have good quicks, the scenario would be the same really. Especially because PAKs batting is not always their strongest area.

Only thing i'd say right now is that the batting line-ups of AUS/SA/ENG are not as strong recent generations. SA were probably the best for a while in handling any sort of bowling - but without Kallis they are in transition now. AUS have been terrible in recent years & only now they may be hoping guys like Doolan/Marsh/Smith can support Clarke properly & will finally return them to days when they always played pace well. ENG are now exposed, dropping KP etc & NZ aren't that perfect either although they are improving.

So yea indeed their isn't a major gap in ability compared to INDs batting line-up.

 

[SaiSrini]

anyway, Rohit looking like the odd man out. if anyone in india fancies being part of the new look test team that's one spot up for grabs. Got to be the end Zaheer, and tbh, his inclusion might still cost india as ishant and shami taking all 20 between them is huge ask and khan just looks impotent.

I am thinking they will persist with Rohit as much as they can. For his defence, he played pretty well at Auckland (he scored a good 70 odd runs when India were tottering in the first innings). With Dhawan showing signs of learning from experience, maybe Rohit might follow the same route.

But I would definitely like to have a Manoj Tiwary or Ambati Rayudu always on the sidelines, to keep Rohit and all these batsmen on their toes. I seriously wish Manoj Tiwary comes back with a bang and competes for a spot in this test lineup. He is another batsman made for test cricket.

 

[War]

Buddy, the trend has completely changed now. Before Indian batsmen used to shiver at the thought of batting on a greentop. I still remember those days when only Sachin used to valiantly play a good knock while the others around him will crumble. But since the Dravid-Laxman-Ganguly days, it changed. And as generation moves on, the fear factor has reduced even more.

We have faced SA in SA on a green pitch and have won before. We beat Australia at Perth in 2008 when it was regarded as their fastest wicket of that series (TBH, Australia won that famous series by winning matches at MCG and Sydney, two of the most batting friendly surfaces).

Our weakness is our bowling and they are completely listless when they are given a non-supportive track. But when the pitch is offering something, Indian bowlers became a lot more stronger.

All the tests i referred to in that post was during the the "peak years" of the Dravid-Laxman-Ganguly days when IND starting being solid overseas from the 2002 series in ENG.

Note i didn't mention the 96-2002 (West Indies 2002 series) period overseas test when Dravid, Laxman especially didn't peak yet and as you said it used to Tendy versus the opposition on his own overseas.