New Zealand tour of England - May/June 2015

[blockerdave]

most amazing thing for me yesterday was England scoring 408 and yet Boult got 4-55!!! That is really standing out as class.[DOUBLEPOST=1433948514][/DOUBLEPOST]

I thought Finn bowled well today as did Rashid.

I hope we can keep this form throughout the series. Only change I'd make is Taylor in for Billings. Be good to see if Roy can make some runs in the other matches.

Butler is for sure one of the best we have.

hard to see what Billings offers if not keeping wicket and batting at 7

 

[MUFC1987]

A couple of years ago, everyone thought that Buttler was a waste of a position. That's the spot that Billings is in now. I like him personally. You need people who are capable of scoring quickly when the field is out and (when in form) he brings that. Buttler did that the last year or so, but now he should rightfully be moved to 5 or 6, so he comes in earlier. Therefore, we have a gap there. It's good to see a guy that does it in County cricket getting a chance to do the same for England, rather than just shoe-horning Bopara in there or something.[DOUBLEPOST=1433953429][/DOUBLEPOST]On Finn, I don't get the criticism of his pace or bowling a few wides. He's in the side because he takes wickets (as he's proven in ODIs) and that's what he did yesterday. Seems unfair to criticise someone for doing their job well. I'd give up a few wides here and there for wickets, every day of the week.

 

[_Sam_]

A couple of years ago, everyone thought that Buttler was a waste of a position. That's the spot that Billings is in now. I like him personally. You need people who are capable of scoring quickly when the field is out and (when in form) he brings that. Buttler did that the last year or so, but now he should rightfully be moved to 5 or 6, so he comes in earlier. Therefore, we have a gap there. It's good to see a guy that does it in County cricket getting a chance to do the same for England, rather than just shoe-horning Bopara in there or something.[DOUBLEPOST=1433953429][/DOUBLEPOST]On Finn, I don't get the criticism of his pace or bowling a few wides. He's in the side because he takes wickets (as he's proven in ODIs) and that's what he did yesterday. Seems unfair to criticise someone for doing their job well. I'd give up a few wides here and there for wickets, every day of the week.

Can he though? Currently his one day form last season is looking like the only positive record on his county career whereas everywhere else is a pretty poor show including this season.

 

[MUFC1987]

Can he though? Currently his one day form last season is looking like the only positive record on his county career whereas everywhere else is a pretty poor show including this season.

Can he what? Can he do it for England? I don't know, but he deserves the chance, for us all to find out. Can he do it at County level? Definitely yes, as his One Day career stats show.

For me, it's very much a specialist position. It's a hard skill to come in with 10, 15 overs to go and hit the ropes from ball one. And it's impossible to do every single game. But, that's why you want someone who does that role week in, week out, doing it for England. The only problem with this theory is that the County One Day comp hasn't started yet, so no one has played this form of the game, so his form isn't what it was last summer, when, as you mention, he was brilliant.

 

[_Sam_]

Can he what? Can he do it for England? I don't know, but he deserves the chance, for us all to find out. Can he do it at County level? Definitely yes, as his One Day career stats show.

For me, it's very much a specialist position. It's a hard skill to come in with 10, 15 overs to go and hit the ropes from ball one. And it's impossible to do every single game. But, that's why you want someone who does that role week in, week out, doing it for England. The only problem with this theory is that the County One Day comp hasn't started yet, so no one has played this form of the game, so his form isn't what it was last summer, when, as you mention, he was brilliant.

Not the most convincing of things though when he can't carry it out in T20 either though (whether it be last season or this season so far). Will be interesting to see how he goes, hopefully it wasn't just a one off!

 

[bigred]

I definitely don't mind a specialist number 7. Think it's a crucial role now in finishing an innings in the final 10 overs. For me, Morgan is perfect for that job and Taylor or Vince should bat at 4.

 

[cricket_icon]

There's no way Ali is good enough to bat in England's top 5 in test matches. You're basically saying that he's better than people like Taylor, Vince and one of Bell/Ballance, which definitely isn't true.

I agree that there's a place for both Ali and Rashid in the limited overs side. Ali has got enough credit in the bank to take Roy's place back. The next big tournament (t20) is in Asia, so having both spinners in the team would be a good idea.

I've been saying this for a while now, put Bell out to pasture. He has averaged barely 31 in his last 12 months, his only centuries coming against the less than competitive India and the...West Indies lol

Ali, when he managed to bat in at 6, got a century against Sri Lanka and has just been bounced around the batting order. Give him a berth at 5 or 6, bring new blood into the England test side, give him matches to play, give him support and confidence, don't treat him like the likes of Finn and you will see his talent come through. If not, fair enough, drop him. But he is being wasted as a front line spinner batting at 8, when he has to come in with the tail enders.

For me:

Cook
Lyth
Root
Ballance
Taylor (??)
Ali
Buttler
Rashid

Looks a far more versatile and aggressive batting line up.

 

[bigred]

I've been saying this for a while now, put Bell out to pasture. He has averaged barely 31 in his last 12 months, his only centuries coming against the less than competitive India and the...West Indies lol

Ali, when he managed to bat in at 6, got a century against Sri Lanka and has just been bounced around the batting order. Give him a berth at 5 or 6, bring new blood into the England test side, give him matches to play, give him support and confidence, don't treat him like the likes of Finn and you will see his talent come through. If not, fair enough, drop him. But he is being wasted as a front line spinner batting at 8, when he has to come in with the tail enders.

For me:

Cook
Lyth
Root
Ballance
Taylor (??)
Ali
Buttler
Rashid

Looks a far more versatile and aggressive batting line up.

So you've dropped Stokes. Nice one. Ali isn't one of England's 5 or 6 best batsman. He only gets in if he is genuinely our best spin option, which some people believe he is.

 

[Pinch hitter]

England always play good cricket in there Home... But New Zealand will Fight Back in 2nd ODI...

 

[LiveLoveABD]

Who's head did I call for? Roy is only playing at the moment as Ali has been asked to go and play some 4 day cricket in preparation for the Ashes. That number 1 slot should still essentially be Ali's as he's done pretty well in that position for a few months. I don't care about Roy getting a golden. But the fact is, he's still a reserve at the minute if England pick their best, most balanced eleven.

England will have to score 350 in every match they play with that bowling line up. Finn, Plunkett and Jordan are 30 overs of proper bowling, but are all inexperienced. Rashid, Root and Stokes are making up the other 20, but if one of the main seamers has a stinker, there's not many places to turn. I'd feel much happier if there's an extra bowling option in Ali.

There's a vast difference between Ali and Roy. It's exactly the place England lacked in the World Cup. As you rightly say, Ali is more proven on the international stage, however, Roy is quite raw at the moment. You need to give guys like him a license and a proper opportunity. Sure, I'm not being stubborn and he could very much be rubbish at this level. But, from what I've seen of him, he looks the real deal. The best way to get the best out of these guys is to give them a fair go at it without the pressure of having the axe drop on you.

Coming to your point about Ali as an off spinner in limited overs? I think he can be useful but his essential role is to bat and although Ali has shown the occasional performance with the bat, he lacks consistency at the top of the order. Ali might get you the occasional wicket, but 9/10 times he will travel. I feel, Stokes and Rashid will be expected to bowl their share of 10. Stokes is there to fill the 10. Personally, I would play Woakes ahead of Jordan. I think he has more gas, he's bowled a bit in the death and just generally seems to nibble it around as well as hit the deck. 350, frankly is the new 300. It's not a big deal to be honest. You can't be scared and go with the idea of getting less than 350 these days. It's how cricket has changed. Test match cricket is won by bowlers, limited overs is won by destructive batsmen.

 

[bigred]

There's a vast difference between Ali and Roy. It's exactly the place England lacked in the World Cup. As you rightly say, Ali is more proven on the international stage, however, Roy is quite raw at the moment. You need to give guys like him a license and a proper opportunity. Sure, I'm not being stubborn and he could very much be rubbish at this level. But, from what I've seen of him, he looks the real deal. The best way to get the best out of these guys is to give them a fair go at it without the pressure of having the axe drop on you.

Coming to your point about Ali as an off spinner in limited overs? I think he can be useful but his essential role is to bat and although Ali has shown the occasional performance with the bat, he lacks consistency at the top of the order. Ali might get you the occasional wicket, but 9/10 times he will travel. I feel, Stokes and Rashid will be expected to bowl their share of 10. Stokes is there to fill the 10. Personally, I would play Woakes ahead of Jordan. I think he has more gas, he's bowled a bit in the death and just generally seems to nibble it around as well as hit the deck. 350, frankly is the new 300. It's not a big deal to be honest. You can't be scared and go with the idea of getting less than 350 these days. It's how cricket has changed. Test match cricket is won by bowlers, limited overs is won by destructive batsmen.

You should look at Ali's figures in his last 10/15 ODIs my friend. He's been one of England's most economical options. He certainly doesn't go the distance.

 

[cricket_icon]

So you've dropped Stokes. Nice one. Ali isn't one of England's 5 or 6 best batsman. He only gets in if he is genuinely our best spin option, which some people believe he is.

Right now he isn't because they haven't given him a chance but watch his technique, the way his feet move and the quickness of his reflexes. Ali is a tremendous talent, let's not waste him.

Stokes can be in there but he'd have to battle it out with Rashid in the test side as a genuine all rounder. Personally, Stoke is a clone of almost any other English bowler out there (however, his batting has shown improvement but we'll see if it carried on).

What would your test side look like?

Mine:
Cook
Lyth
Root
Ballance
Taylor
Ali
Buttler wk
Rashid
Broad
Jordan
Anderson

Stokes can be in there, meaning either Rashid would have to go or Taylor would have to be dropped and Ali moved up.

I just believe what I have is a forward looking team, slightly more unorthodox than what England is used to but let's get new blood in there, players who do things normal english cricketers don't. I'm tired of the same old line and length bowlers and good defensive batsmen. With the recent inclusion of Buttler I think England have been heading in the right direction. Heck, why not try Ali, the ODI opener who has 2 centuries as test opener? he is an aggressive, modern cricketer with the subtle wrists and flair of an Asian batsman. The England test side is successful at home but minnows away, we need some vibrancy to succeed all over the world, not just have a team and mindset created to grind out results on home wickets.

 

[bigred]

Right now he isn't because they haven't given him a chance but watch his technique, the way his feet move and the quickness of his reflexes. Ali is a tremendous talent, let's not waste him.

Stokes can be in there but he'd have to battle it out with Rashid in the test side as a genuine all rounder. Personally, Stoke is a clone of almost any other English bowler out there (however, his batting has shown improvement but we'll see if it carried on).

What would your test side look like?

Mine:
Cook
Lyth
Root
Ballance
Taylor
Ali
Buttler wk
Rashid
Broad
Jordan
Anderson

Stokes can be in there, meaning either Rashid would have to go or Taylor would have to be dropped and Ali moved up.

I just believe what I have is a forward looking team, slightly more unorthodox than what England is used to but let's get new blood in there, players who do things normal english cricketers don't. I'm tired of the same old line and length bowlers and good defensive batsmen. With the recent inclusion of Buttler I think England have been heading in the right direction. Heck, why not try Ali, the ODI opener who has 2 centuries as test opener? he is an aggressive, modern cricketer with the subtle wrists and flair of an Asian batsman. The England test side is successful at home but ******s away, we need some vibrancy to succeed all over the world, not just have a team and mindset created to grind out results on home wickets.

Ali has actually has one hundred and averages 28 in his 11 tests. 9 of those tests were batting at 6, which is where you have him.

I'd have

1. Cook
2. Lyth
3. Ballance
4. Bell
5. Root
6. Stokes
7. Buttler
8. Rashid
9. Wood
10. Broad
11. Anderson

I'm being stubborn and sticking with Bell, but I'm starting to see where people are coming from on his lack of form. I can see him scoring 2 hundreds in the ashes though and I love watching him bat. If he starts badly I'd bring in Hales as I think he's the person the Aussies would least like to play against.

 

[cricket_icon]

Ali has actually has one hundred and averages 28 in his 11 tests. 9 of those tests were batting at 6, which is where you have him.

I'd have

1. Cook
2. Lyth
3. Ballance
4. Bell
5. Root
6. Stokes
7. Buttler
8. Rashid
9. Wood
10. Broad
11. Anderson

I'm being stubborn and sticking with Bell, but I'm starting to see where people are coming from on his lack of form. I can see him scoring 2 hundreds in the ashes though and I love watching him bat. If he starts badly I'd bring in Hales as I think he's the person the Aussies would least like to play against.

Wood is being overrated and Ali is a better batsman than one hit Stokes, watch Stokes fall away soon.

And I was talking about Ali has an ODI player, hence the 2 centuries, which is why I think he should be given a shot as the test opener. Bring something new and more important, especially when going to play in the subcontinent again. We don't need another drubbing.

 

[LiveLoveABD]

You should look at Ali's figures in his last 10/15 ODIs my friend. He's been one of England's most economical options. He certainly doesn't go the distance.

Don't quite believe in 'checking the data.'

Put him in a contest against a good batting side and he will not win you games, consistently. Like I mentioned in my earlier post, white ball cricket is over bits and pieces all rounders. It demands specialization in one field, with added dimensions.