Overrated cricketers

[puddleduck]

Maybe we should open an under-rated thread as well (with a picture of Rahul Dravid at the start).

I wonder if that thread will also end up with Indian and English cricket fans debating the merits of two entirely insipid contests of cricket that happened months ago

(for the record people, we all (as in cricket fans) lost )

 

[teamindia]

I wonder if that thread will also end up with Indian and English cricket fans debating the merits of two entirely insipid contests of cricket that happened months ago

(for the record people, we all (as in cricket fans) lost )

That is not possible. There are no underrated English cricketers. Many overrated....duck...run...

 

[sifter132]

Wow this thread took off I also think Swann is overrated a bit, especially when compared to some of the other players on the England team who seem to be underrated: Trott, Cook, Prior, Bell never seem to be clamoured over on message boards, but they killed us last Ashes. Swann is a solid bowler to be sure, but I never saw too much awesomeness, especially against right handers. Haven't seen his whole career obviously, but Hauritz outbowled him in 2009, and while he was tight in the last Ashes, he wasn't really a constant threat. But most of what makes Swann overrated is how he's referred to as the world's #1 spinner, it's not Swann's fault, but unfortuneatly someone has to get that tag, just like when India was the world #1 Test team, that tag overrated them too. I guess we just expect more from #1s

 

[War]

Off my head:

- Sehwag

- Indian cricket team in tests since 2008

- Chris Gayle as a batsman outside of T20s since his trails with WICB began in 2010

- Gambhir, McCullum and Dilshan as a test opener in some quarters

Cant think of any other obvious example in the international game currently.

 

[Bevab]

Didn't Gayle score that 333 in tests?

 

[StinkyBoHoon]

outwith current players, matt hayden. couldn't play swing any better than sehwag could (who seems to be the player of choice in this thread) averages of 34, 34, and 28 in england, south africa and new zealand, the places considered the swinging meccas. his away average was about 20 runs lower than his home average, a stat people never tire of bringing up in regard to jayawardena, and yet you never really hear any of this mentioned when people talk about him.

 

[War]

outwith current players, matt hayden. couldn't play swing any better than sehwag could (who seems to be the player of choice in this thread) averages of 34, 34, and 28 in england, south africa and new zealand, the places considered the swinging meccas. his away average was about 20 runs lower than his home average, a stat people never tire of bringing up in regard to jayawardena, and yet you never really hear any of this mentioned when people talk about him.

Absolute distortion on Hayden's career and its highly incorrect to suggest he couldn't play swing any better than Sehwag.

I have never seen Sehwag play any innings against top quality swing-bowling in seaming conditions that is comparable to Hayden 156 vs ENG @ the Oval in 2005, just to give one example.

I shall respond to rest of this incorrect comparative analysis later, since you deserve an intellectual scolding for this post sir.

 

[StinkyBoHoon]

that would be the last ashes match score of 138 played on a pitch where both teams made over 350 in the first innings, ended a draw and england had lost jones, their most devestating pace bowler of the series? cause that's his only ton in england.

 

[puddleduck]

It's actually true. The kookaburra ball barely swings. In Australia the key to batting is judging length well, not necessarily swing. You only have to look at what Hoggard did to Hayden to highlight his difficulty in combating genuine swing bowling. His basic tactic was to just walk down the pitch and try and remove the swing, but obviously, if there was a bit of nip about, he did seem (heh pun intended) clueless.

He was clearly a very good opening batsmen, but strangely not someone I ever respected. Bludgeoning the Zimbabwe attack around to break the record was pretty unappealing. Especially after Taylor had left himself on 334* because he didn't want to go past the Don's score. Don't worry Matty, you just crap on it all by smashing a woeful Zimbabwe team all over the place. I was never happier to see England get smashed around by Lara for his 400* (not that our bowling attack was much better mind).

War, was that match not at the Oval by any chance? The one ground in England that is most similar to most Aussie test grounds?

Now playing anything that wasn't rapid, wasn't moving, or allowed him to plant his massive front foot just outside offstump, he was destructive.

Sehwag in South Africa, was a far better innings than Haydens if you want a benchmark. Both excellent players, don't get me wrong.

 

[aayush93]

Absolute distortion on Hayden's career and its highly incorrect to suggest he couldn't play swing any better than Sehwag.

I have never seen Sehwag play any innings against swing-bowling in seaming conditions that is comparable to Hayden 156 vs ENG @ the Oval in 2005, just to give one example.

I shall respond to rest of this incorrect comparative analysis later, since you deserve an intellectual scolding for this post sir.

sehwag scored hundred in his debut match against SA in South Africa.
Sehwag has also scored hundred against England in england.

The only problem is that you have not seen those innings, so there is no point of arguing. I have seen all sehwag 22 Test Century thats why i have a respect for him similarly i have not seen Don Bradman, so i don't rate him best ever player just because he has avg of 99.94.

and another Thing sehwag has is career strike rate of 82 in test match and is just few runs short of 8000. He will be 5-6 fastest to get 8000 runs in terms of innings and in strike rate NO 1. England 90% of player even don't have S.R of 80+ in ODI cricket only.

These are some words from Hayden About Sehwag: Because of player like Sehwag, Test cricket is still alive.

 

[Owzat]

Is the Swann criticism due to the other thread? Because I don't think he's overrated.
.

As ridiculous and stupid as what Swann said is, he isn't over-rated. He might be by some, and perceived as such by rival fans, but he isn't. Most of us acknowledge he does a very good job, but is nowhere near the class of Warne or a very top spinner.

Rankings are irrelevant, it's career stats that matter

GP Swann

36 Tests : 153 wkts @ 28.82 (SR 58.19)

He actually does better home (26.15) than away (30.91) His record in India is very ordinary (8 wkts @ 39.50), but from TWO tests against good players of spin that's hardly conclusive

64 ODIs : 90 wkts @ 25.43 (SR 33.93, ER 4.50)

Pretty darned impressive, these days how many bowlers average under 25 in any decent (non-T20) form of the game? Averaging under 30 in both forms is good, of course if I had time I could post up the stats for all spinners but you'd have to also breakdown those who have home advantage as I've done before when comparing Warne with Mr 800. Take away Mr 800's subcontinent/home advantage and he's on par with Warne.

 

[aayush93]

As ridiculous and stupid as what Swann said is, he isn't over-rated. He might be by some, and perceived as such by rival fans, but he isn't. Most of us acknowledge he does a very good job, but is nowhere near the class of Warne or a very top spinner.

Rankings are irrelevant, it's career stats that matter

GP Swann

36 Tests : 153 wkts @ 28.82 (SR 58.19)

He actually does better home (26.15) than away (30.91) His record in India is very ordinary (8 wkts @ 39.50), but from TWO tests against good players of spin that's hardly conclusive

64 ODIs : 90 wkts @ 25.43 (SR 33.93, ER 4.50)

Pretty darned impressive, these days how many bowlers average under 25 in any decent (non-T20) form of the game? Averaging under 30 in both forms is good, of course if I had time I could post up the stats for all spinners but you'd have to also breakdown those who have home advantage as I've done before when comparing Warne with Mr 800. Take away Mr 800's subcontinent/home advantage and he's on par with Warne.

Ya completely agree. Even Murali is over-rated as many consider him better than warne because Murali stats are better than Warne. Murali played most of his test matches at home and specially in kandy. With Murali, there was only vaas who used to take wicket, so murali got more chance to take wickets whereas with warne there was mcgrath, Gillespie, Lee.

but i think comparing leg Spinner with Off-spinner is just stupidity. Leg Spinner generally bowls 1 bad ball in 10 balls. So his Avg and Economy will be higher than off-spinner.

In My view Saqlain was the best off-spinner and just because of him off-spinner got Special delivery called Doosra.
According to bevan, Saqlain was the most difficult bowler he has ever faced.

I remember a test series b/w india-pakistan in 1999-2000, in this series Kumble took a 10 wickets in a innings.

But not many remembers that Saqlain took four 5 Wickets haul in 4 innings.

 

[shravi]

... and here I was thinking that there were limits to how much one could embarrass oneself... silly me.

 

[teamindia]

As ridiculous and stupid as what Swann said is, he isn't over-rated. He might be by some, and perceived as such by rival fans, but he isn't. Most of us acknowledge he does a very good job, but is nowhere near the class of Warne or a very top spinner.

Rankings are irrelevant, it's career stats that matter

GP Swann

36 Tests : 153 wkts @ 28.82 (SR 58.19)

He actually does better home (26.15) than away (30.91) His record in India is very ordinary (8 wkts @ 39.50), but from TWO tests against good players of spin that's hardly conclusive

64 ODIs : 90 wkts @ 25.43 (SR 33.93, ER 4.50)

Pretty darned impressive, these days how many bowlers average under 25 in any decent (non-T20) form of the game? Averaging under 30 in both forms is good, of course if I had time I could post up the stats for all spinners but you'd have to also breakdown those who have home advantage as I've done before when comparing Warne with Mr 800. Take away Mr 800's subcontinent/home advantage and he's on par with Warne.

Lol... darn impressive against weak players of spin. That is why we are saying he is overrated.

 

[StinkyBoHoon]

Take away Mr 800's subcontinent/home advantage and he's on par with Warne.

can the impartials please have an answer to this question.

because it seems when anyone talks about sehwag I get told the sub-continent is all flat tracks and roads and yet when someone mentions murali all of a sudden it's an absolute minefield where no proper batsman could be expected to score.